QueenOfCoach

I'd like to bet the AA Fraud Dept, like similar depts in other airlines and other industries, have a list of folks on a "watch list". These would be people who have done something questionable or shady and need to be watched. When one of these watch list people pop up in any kind of transaction, including using FFMs for someone else, some human being using human logic and human intelligence has a close look.

Just for my own edification, I had a look at sahiljain22's past messages. I don't get the impression he is some kind of naive newcomer to airline travel and frequent flyer programs. In my opinion, for whatever it's worth, this guy knew exactly what he was doing and now expresses shock that he did not get a warning before the account was closed.

Today on CNN.com, there's a blurb about a celebrity getting banned from the blackjack tables in a Las Vegas casino.

I found this part of the article interesting, especially consider debates in this forum about the definition of "legal" and "illegal" actions with frequent flyer mile accounts:

So, here is an activity, namely card counting, which is not, itself, illegal, but is frowned upon by the gambling establishment. A person winning at blackjack by card counting is not arrested and charged with a crime. Instead, the gambling establishment says "You are not welcome to play blackjack within our casino.".

Simlarly, various activities involving FFMs are not actually illegal, but are in violation of the terms and conditions of the airline programs. When discovered the airline (just like the casino) says "You are not welcome in our frequent flyer mile program.", the account is closed and the balance reset to zero.

BStrauss3

There's a fine line between INTENT TO DEFRAUD (which is illegal) and violation of the T&C.

Just for grins, Michigan law (because it popped up 1st on Google):

http://law.onecle.com/michigan/750-m...l-750-218.html

I think FFM are pretty clearly "other valuable thing[s]".

And that IMNSHO is the difference... trading FFM is a violation of the T&C. Opening a credit card, buying a refundable ticket, closing the CC and then returning the ticket is the crime.

Either way, if you can't do the time, don't do the crime...

CDKing

Looks like posted just went back and edited their email out of it

sj22

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rjw242

Since it's a crime, and evidently a common one, you must be able to point to numerous criminal prosecutions of people engaging in this behavior, right?

QueenOfCoach

Or folks on CC turning out to be airline Fraud Dept employees reeling in their catches.

You have probably been on a watch list for some time. You wonder what is AA's thinking. Probably something like this: "Let's dump the folks who are defrauding us once and for all. No warning, no negotiations, no playing around. Let them be some other airline's problem."

QueenOfCoach

Are you under the impression that they cannot figure out who is your wife's husband? Do you have the same last name? Live at the same address? Travel together? Stay in a "double" hotel room, rather than two "singles"? Is your marriage certificate part of the public record?

I work with Big Data. I make a living at it.

sj22

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CDKing

So AA just needed to pull the marriage certificate. If i'm not mistaken (ive never been married) maiden name is listed?

Dave Noble

CC was no different to selling on ebay etc. it was a marketplace where people were selling items, just for items of value rather than cash.

You have done it several times and done it quite deliberately

Why would a broker disclose that he is a broker; the whole of CC was a bokerage run by FT; it was actine as a middleman between random parties wishing to buy and sell items


I wouldn't assume that at all. I expect that the majority have never traded on that forum. Giving away items doesn't need CC; I have seem threads with people giving away unneeded items on just the regular fora

There is no grey area with CC. It was simply a trading post where items with effective value were traded for other items of effective value..

Genuine friends do not need a marketplace to help each other out

john398

Wow that's harsh, flagging for just receiving a PM, I would never reply to that kind of PM

sj22

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imapilotaz

Seriously, you thought that a random guy happened to need, for personal reasons and no cash being moved around or brokered, to fly to Southeast Asia (and I'm sure it was in F or J) in the next 3 to 4 days? You didnt stop to think that's exactly what Brokers do?

If that's the case, I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn, or better yet a friend who happens to be a Nigerian prince that needs to wire you some cash and he'll give you 25% of it for your troubles.

imapilotaz

You know, if I was going to do something like that (and I never would), I would google their phone number, address and name... and see what's up. If they are legit, it takes 5 minutes of time. Otherwise it'd be pretty easy to determine it was a scam.

QueenOfCoach

Do you honestly think that any database analyst worth the cost of their cubicle carpet can't figure out who is married to whom?

It's not a matter of fooling a computer query by a slight variation in spelling or use of your wife's maiden name. It's a matter of human beings using their human intelligence to dive into the database and figure out what you are doing and with whom.