tom911

If you go back about a month in this thread, you'll see some discussion. Might also check this blog: Wanna trade for an American Airlines eVIP?

JonNYC

The latest case of an FTer in trouble for fictitious bookings shows a really, really tough stance by AA. NOT saying unwarranted (nor do I probably know 70% of the story yet), but, rather, a very, very strict account closed (not locked)-- "no further AAdv participation for you." And in a case or two on a million mile account. O U C H.

I don't know the full facts on these latest cases, and I'm 1000% sure the complexion of them will change as the facts are dribbled out, but, for sure, to my eyes, at this juncture-- the quickest, most efficient way to have your AAdv account nuked-- permanently-- lifetime status and all-- is to play around with fictitious bookings. Not to say the -other- ways of getting in trouble detailed in this thread can't result in same.

But if you book/refund premium refundable tickets you damn sure better have some history of flying on premium, refundable tickets-- and your booking of same sure better not line up with manufactured spend (credit card bonus) nor an upgrade you've been "looking after" etc.

No warning letter, no questionnaire, etc. Just ejection and a have a nice life if you're playing that game.

QueenOfCoach

Jon, What about the advice, commonly offered in FT, to people who want to get airside without actually flying? They want to meet someone in the AC, accompany Elderly Grandma to the departure gate, etc. Rather than go through the proper channels to get a 100% legitimate airline-issued concourse pass, I've seen messages here advising the poster to "just buy a fully refundable ticket, get the boarding pass, go through TSA, then cash in the ticket."

Your note about booking/refunding refundable tickets referred to premium (F J) tickets. Would they similarly close an account for someone doing the same thing in Y? Seems to me they would, or at least send out a stern warning to cease.

BStrauss3

For the AC follow published policy and call the club to make the request 24h in advance. They will create the appropriate booking that you can then pickup at the counter.

For Granny, ask the Ticket Counter AAgent for a "Gate Pass"

yoyo

I will assume the answer to this is to buy tickets without the FF number?

Jon,

What advice do you have for those who already done buying refundable J ticket but have not refunded or have refunded but with their AA accounts still active? Suck up and fly those 10K tickets or call AA and confess or just sit and wait for the sword to fall?

rjw242

Or buy tickets on another carrier operating out of the same (or an airside-connected) terminal.

CDKing

In many cases you can get into any terminal of the same airport you are scheduled to fly out of, regardless if the terminal is used by the airline.

Either way, works best with a carrier you don't ever see yourself having a FF account for so there's nothing they can do to you. I don't believe the can ban you from flying, only from participating in their frequent flyer program

Spiff

Many, many people book refundable tickets and cancel them. Y class refundable tickets on non-full flights will hardly raise an eyebrow on any airline. If the airlines said no more refundable tickets, they would lose a lot of business because people pay for flexibility.

Abuse and therefore AA's ire occurs when inventory that could have been sold goes unsold (spoilage) due to fictitious booking. Premium class fictitious booking occurs most often in conjunction with desired upgrade space. When people tie up paid inventory with the plan that they will cancel so that the paid inventory will convert to upgrade inventory at cancellation time, AA (and other carriers) become quite annoyed. That practice alone would make AA AAnnoyed. It can be easy to spot (A books fake ticket in A's name without FF number) or harder (A books in B's name, A and B have a relationship) or probably a pattern or external indicator (A books in B's name, A and B have no apparent relationship but A has a history of sketchy behavior - A's flights have premium cabin cancellations when A is waitlisted for upgrade, A has a history of credit card spending abuse, etc.)

If you're just booking an occasional refundable Y ticket to go airside, you choose lightly-booked Y class flights, and you still fly regularly, you'll have no problems with AA or any other carrier. In fact, you might want to spread your cancellations across airlines if you need to do this more than very rarely.

QueenOfCoach

Quoting Jon:

My question to Jon stands: If you book Y refundable tickets (just to get airside), would you have a problem if you have no history of flying on Y refundable tickets and/or your booking of same would line up with manufactured spend (credit card bonus)?

If Jon's answer is in the affirmative, then the common FT advice of booking a refundable ticket just to get airside should be avoided.

Note, also, in LAX my home airport, I can get into T4 only with an AA ticket. I saw a guy with a Delta ticket turned away the last time I went through.

I understand the proper procedure of getting a gate pass for Grandma or a pass for the AC meeting.

JonNYC

I'd say its "safe" to buy/refund such a ticket for such a purpose. And I'd forsee almost no chance of an issue if done one time, etc.

But that said, they are including language about accessing airside with no actual plans to travel in the letters to people, so, whatever they have in mind in that context, it's a grey area going forward. It's officially and openly a violation of T&C-- that would prevent me personally from doing it.

Spiff

And for the most part, as usual, I agree with JonNYC.

That being said, fully refundable tickets are a very important component of airline revenue. They are expensive because they have the flexibility to be canceled up to and including at the last minute. Airlines would lose a lot of money if they did away with such flexibility at a high price. While most businesses and many individuals are understanding of AA's stance on coming down hard on those who abuse refundable premium class tickets to attempt to secure upgrade space, they would be much less understanding or supportive of any attempt to hassle those who buy refundable Y tickets for any reason. Many are flown, some are refunded. That's part of the business model and it would be foolish to tamper with it as it would cause businesses and some individuals to just stop paying full fare for flexibility.

DWFI

That would be good advice if getting one wasn't equivalent to pulling teeth.
It took me 4 people and 25 minutes last time to get one at JFK.

And the time before that, 2 very, very reluctant people and 15 minutes at SFO.

Spiff

Indeed. If it weren't for this stupidity on AA's (and other airlines' part), I'd probably not be recommending Fully Refundable Tickets as often as I do.

JonNYC

Personally, in light of the current crack-down on fraudulent bookings/ inventory spoilage, etc.. I personally would advise against doing them for any reason.

Do I believe that anyone has ever had their account locked for booking a ticket one time to access air-side facilities? No, I'm absolutely sure that hasn't happened.

But if one got jammed up in any other way, I'd sure hate to have to confess to that as part of a different/larger investigation. It would a detriment to resolving the case favorably.

My advice would be to stay as far away from fictitious bookings-- for whatever reason-- as one possibly can.

beerup

Just to add to that good advice, at some point the language in the CoC changed to categorically list access to airside facilities as a type of fictitious booking.

(underlined emphasis mine)