Jul 10, 2013, 4:13 pm
Last edit by: JDiver
SIZE="4"]AA "instant upgrade" (-UP) fare
Click here for the current thread.
[/SIZE]
These are often referred to as "instant upgrade" fares; they upgrade into the class of service P, A or I internationally with positive space; OSO / schedule disruptions mean unless the P, A, D, I etc. fare is offered on the new flight they "downgrade" to Coach on the next available flight. (One can wait for the next flight with P, A, D, I available, but this might require overnights etc. at one's expense.)
Purchasers should carefully read the Detailed Fare Rules, as many of these are, as essentially "instant upgrades", punitive in effect during IROPS / OSO", "change of gauge" aircraft substitutions, cancellations and missed connections because if the necessary fare inventory isn't available one is generally given the option to fly now, in Economy, or wait until such inventory becomes available (which may entail hours or days at the passenger's own expense).
The detailed fare codes for these flights might look like (international) GNE7C0Z1/CRUP or SNE7C0Z1/CRUP, Lxxxx, etc. Reaccommodation in Coach: these particular sample fates will be treated like an N class fare. As well: "The most restrictive set of fare rules applies to the entire itinerary. In addition other fare rules may apply."
In the detailed fare rules, instant upgrade fares may include something like this:
E.G. During irregular operations or missed connections, one may continue in that class of service if A, P, D, I etc. as applicable is available, or the passenger can take a voluntary downgrade to the lower class of service / Y on an earlier flight. Some may do this if waiting for A, P or I requires one or more overnights.
Refunds may be limited to $0.50 per mile to a maximum of $50 per downgraded segment, and are limited to vouchers good for future travel on AA.
Link to compensation offered for an involuntary downgrade of "instant upgrade" fares:
One explanatory post (15 Apr 2015) might be:
Click here for the current thread.
[/SIZE]
These are often referred to as "instant upgrade" fares; they upgrade into the class of service P, A or I internationally with positive space; OSO / schedule disruptions mean unless the P, A, D, I etc. fare is offered on the new flight they "downgrade" to Coach on the next available flight. (One can wait for the next flight with P, A, D, I available, but this might require overnights etc. at one's expense.)
Purchasers should carefully read the Detailed Fare Rules, as many of these are, as essentially "instant upgrades", punitive in effect during IROPS / OSO", "change of gauge" aircraft substitutions, cancellations and missed connections because if the necessary fare inventory isn't available one is generally given the option to fly now, in Economy, or wait until such inventory becomes available (which may entail hours or days at the passenger's own expense).
The detailed fare codes for these flights might look like (international) GNE7C0Z1/CRUP or SNE7C0Z1/CRUP, Lxxxx, etc. Reaccommodation in Coach: these particular sample fates will be treated like an N class fare. As well: "The most restrictive set of fare rules applies to the entire itinerary. In addition other fare rules may apply."
In the detailed fare rules, instant upgrade fares may include something like this:
ECONOMY FARE WITH AN INSTANT ONE-CLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE TO FIRST/BUSINESS. APPLICATION CLASS OF SERVICE THESE FARES APPLY FOR ECONOMY CLASS SERVICE. CAPACITY LIMITATIONS SEATS ARE LIMITED BOTH ECONOMY AND FIRST CLASS BOOKING INVENTORIES MUST BE AVAILABLE AT TIME OF BOOKING. THESE FARES PERMIT A ONE-CLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF BOOKING.
Refunds may be limited to $0.50 per mile to a maximum of $50 per downgraded segment, and are limited to vouchers good for future travel on AA.
Link to compensation offered for an involuntary downgrade of "instant upgrade" fares:
Instant Upgrade tickets are booked in the Main Cabin. However, Instant upgrade ticketholders who travel in the Main Cabin due to an involuntary seat change, equipment change, routing change, flight cancellation, or missed connection as a result of a late incoming flight may request a travel voucher. The voucher value shall be equal to $0.10 per mile, or $50, whichever is greater, for each flight segment flown in the downgraded cabin. Refunds will be rounded to the nearest whole dollar amount, and can be requested at www.aa.com/refunds.
...
Just moments ago, I priced out a trip from LAX to DFW, and two different discounted First Class ticket options were presented, the fare class of one was SA00ZNI1 (books into P) and the other was MA00ZRI1 (books into A).
At the bottom of the purchase summary screen, AA provides this warning:
The fare rules for both tickets provide the following as the last entry:
Why does this matter? Because if I buy either of these tickets and then I decide that I want to fly an earlier or later flight, these fares will not permit me to walk up to the counter and claim a last-minute F seat if my capacity-controlled inventory is not available. For instance, if that last F seat is in F (not P or A), then I'd have to pay the fare difference in order to confirm a change to that seat.
We can (and have for years and years) argued around here that these fare practices are misleading - and I agree. Nevertheless, AA is most certainly still selling what it considers to be "instant upgrade" fares, and savvy travelers should read the fare rules* and plan accordingly.
*Or at least download them to your hard drive as a pdf at the time of reservation/purchase so that others might help decipher them when things go inverted. So often around here, people post questions where reading the fare rules is vital to an accurate answer, and they respond "who reads/saves those when buying a ticket?"
Back to the OP's question: How to find instant upgrade tickets? Nearly every domestic first class fare I've seen on aa.com is an instant upgrade ticket. Finding a domestic first class fare that isn't an instant upgrade fare is quite a chore. The OP can rest assured that if their fare books in P, A or F, they're going to earn their hoped-for tier points. As Microwave pointed out, the best/correct place for that discussion is in the British Airways forum where there are numerous BAEC members with experience in buying and flying on AA's instant upgrade F tickets.
Just moments ago, I priced out a trip from LAX to DFW, and two different discounted First Class ticket options were presented, the fare class of one was SA00ZNI1 (books into P) and the other was MA00ZRI1 (books into A).
At the bottom of the purchase summary screen, AA provides this warning:
■ First/Business Fares may be an Instant Upgrade and therefore subject to restrictions.
Rule Application
and Other Conditions
NOTE THE FOLLOWING TEXT IS INFORMATIONAL AND NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. ECONOMY FARE WITH AN INSTANT ONECLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE TO FIRST/BUSINESS. APPLICATION CLASS OF SERVICE THESE FARES APPLY FOR ECONOMY CLASS SERVICE. CAPACITY LIMITATIONS SEATS ARE LIMITED BOTH ECONOMY AND FIRST CLASS BOOKING INVENTORIES MUST BE AVAILABLE AT TIME OF BOOKING. THESE FARES PERMIT A ONECLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF BOOKING.
and Other Conditions
NOTE THE FOLLOWING TEXT IS INFORMATIONAL AND NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. ECONOMY FARE WITH AN INSTANT ONECLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE TO FIRST/BUSINESS. APPLICATION CLASS OF SERVICE THESE FARES APPLY FOR ECONOMY CLASS SERVICE. CAPACITY LIMITATIONS SEATS ARE LIMITED BOTH ECONOMY AND FIRST CLASS BOOKING INVENTORIES MUST BE AVAILABLE AT TIME OF BOOKING. THESE FARES PERMIT A ONECLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF BOOKING.
We can (and have for years and years) argued around here that these fare practices are misleading - and I agree. Nevertheless, AA is most certainly still selling what it considers to be "instant upgrade" fares, and savvy travelers should read the fare rules* and plan accordingly.
*Or at least download them to your hard drive as a pdf at the time of reservation/purchase so that others might help decipher them when things go inverted. So often around here, people post questions where reading the fare rules is vital to an accurate answer, and they respond "who reads/saves those when buying a ticket?"
Back to the OP's question: How to find instant upgrade tickets? Nearly every domestic first class fare I've seen on aa.com is an instant upgrade ticket. Finding a domestic first class fare that isn't an instant upgrade fare is quite a chore. The OP can rest assured that if their fare books in P, A or F, they're going to earn their hoped-for tier points. As Microwave pointed out, the best/correct place for that discussion is in the British Airways forum where there are numerous BAEC members with experience in buying and flying on AA's instant upgrade F tickets.
ARCHIVE: AA "instant upgrade" (-UP, YUP) fare discount First (master thd)
Jul 30, 2010, 10:28 am
#16
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,237
Thank you.
I don't care about the fare on that day, I care about the historical fare at the time I booked. Airlines keep track of that stuff.
On the day you are potentially downgraded the lowest coach fare available is probably higher than your UP fare.
Jul 30, 2010, 10:29 am
#17
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Boston, MA
Programs: AA EXP, B6 Mosaic, UA Plat, Bonvoy Plat, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 1,777
Maybe I've just gotten lucky, but I purchase Y-up tickets often and have never had an issue being re-accommodated in F in cases of irrops on AA. I can't imagine myself paying for full F when Y-up is available...
On DL, they usually make a comment about how "it's not really a first class ticket."
On DL, they usually make a comment about how "it's not really a first class ticket."
I have also had the "It's not really a first class ticket" from AA agents more than once. The problem is not unique to DL.
That said, you are making a bet. If you average it out, the bet is a good one. You just have to be prepared to suck it up if the odds go against you on any given trip.
Jul 30, 2010, 11:11 am
#19
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: USA, Europe
Programs: AAdvantage, Flying Blue, Mileage Plus
Posts: 839
If you book an "UP" fare that books into P, it's no different than booking a discount coach ticket that books into Q. Both should, in theory, allow for re accommodation in the same cabin. Think about it...when you're booked in a discount coach fare and there are irrops, you'll get put on the next available flight regardless of what the lowest fare basis is. If the lowest fare basis on the new flight is M or H, is AA going to say "sorry you have to wait for a flight that has Q availability"? No, of course not. Even if Y is the only fare bucket available, you'll get put into Y. It shouldn't be (and usually isn't, from my experience) any different with the first cabin. If you're booked into P and during irrops, only A or F is available, then you will get re booked into A or F. Any agent that tells you different is probably wrong.
To those here that have said they have had experiences to the contrary, I would bet that there were simply no first class seats available on the new flight, regardless of fare basis. The agent probably said that "full fare passengers have priority over "UP" fares" because that's true during irrops and if the higher fare passengers took all the remaining seats on the new flight, then it makes sense that those on P fares can't be accommodated for at least a little while longer.
To those here that have said they have had experiences to the contrary, I would bet that there were simply no first class seats available on the new flight, regardless of fare basis. The agent probably said that "full fare passengers have priority over "UP" fares" because that's true during irrops and if the higher fare passengers took all the remaining seats on the new flight, then it makes sense that those on P fares can't be accommodated for at least a little while longer.
Jul 30, 2010, 1:15 pm
#20
Moderator: American AAdvantage, Signatures
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London, England
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton Diamond, IHG Diamond Ambassador, National Exec, AA EXP Emeritus
Posts: 9,765
I have a tangentially related question: If one books a YUP/KUP/xUP fare into J on a 3-class transcon, could status-holders use stickers to request an upgrade to F? Or eVIPs?
Jul 30, 2010, 1:29 pm
#21
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: SJC
Programs: AA EXP, BA Silver, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton diamond, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 33,535
Cheers.
Jul 30, 2010, 1:34 pm
#22
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,237
As an aside, I'd note that the language in the Upgrade Award Chart specifically refers to "Select Business are published fares booked in I". It makes no mention of a fare basis code, as long as the fare books in I. I'd also note, as I wrote above, that fares booked in "D" on transcons are currently issued with YUP-type fare basis codes. But they're still considered "full fare business". This suggests that the booking code is what determines the fare type, not the first letter of the fare basis code. (Though of course AA is notorious for defining things differently for different purposes, e.g., "international" for lounge access.)
Last edited by ijgordon; Jul 30, 2010 at 1:39 pm
Jul 30, 2010, 3:50 pm
#23
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Caracas
Programs: Former AA PLT/GLD, A3 *G, Priority Pass
Posts: 1,144
If I purchased a ticket that booked directly into "I" or "A" or "P" class, and then got involuntarily downgraded, and AA refused to refund me the difference to the lowest available coach fare on that flight, you can bet there would be a lawsuit. I might even make it a class action, because I'm sure they've tried to screw other people this way.
Dear mvtm:
I'm responding to your refund request.
Your ticket involves fares with specific travel conditions that you
travel as ticketed. Because your trip was not completed as ticketed,
the segment(s) used must be recalculated at a one-way fare. When your
ticket is recalculated, and the amount you paid is subtracted from the
adjusted one-way price, there is no remaining value to refund. For this
reason we are unable to provide you with a refund.
I'm sorry my response could not be more favorable.
Thank you for giving me this opportunity to be of service and for choosing
American Airlines. We look forward to having you back on board with us
soon.
Regards,
XXXXX
American Airlines
Trinidad Revenue Accounting Office
I'm responding to your refund request.
Your ticket involves fares with specific travel conditions that you
travel as ticketed. Because your trip was not completed as ticketed,
the segment(s) used must be recalculated at a one-way fare. When your
ticket is recalculated, and the amount you paid is subtracted from the
adjusted one-way price, there is no remaining value to refund. For this
reason we are unable to provide you with a refund.
I'm sorry my response could not be more favorable.
Thank you for giving me this opportunity to be of service and for choosing
American Airlines. We look forward to having you back on board with us
soon.
Regards,
XXXXX
American Airlines
Trinidad Revenue Accounting Office
Jul 30, 2010, 9:17 pm
#25
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
Apples, oranges, pears; YUP and KUP are not I or D fares. But, I'd love to see somene take on AA with their own lawyers on this issue.
In my case, they would have been happy to accommodate me in the F cabin - when the first seat became available, over 24 hours out. The alternative was coach and get out of town, so I took it (and no, I did not call my lawyer when I got thankfully home; it was my choice not to pay an inflated rate for a distant hotel and get home).
In my case, they would have been happy to accommodate me in the F cabin - when the first seat became available, over 24 hours out. The alternative was coach and get out of town, so I took it (and no, I did not call my lawyer when I got thankfully home; it was my choice not to pay an inflated rate for a distant hotel and get home).
If I purchased a ticket that booked directly into "I" or "A" or "P" class, and then got involuntarily downgraded, and AA refused to refund me the difference to the lowest available coach fare on that flight, you can bet there would be a lawsuit. I might even make it a class action, because I'm sure they've tried to screw other people this way.
Think of it this way: I can buy a "Q" fare and confirm a seat in economy for $200 (one-way), or I can buy an "I" fare and confirm a seat in business class for $1000. I choose the $1000 "I" fare. If something happens and I end up flying in coach, I will be arguing for an $800 refund. What jury will refuse? The argument is pretty straightforward in the absence of any explicit language in the fare rules or contract of carriage indicating otherwise.
I'd point out that there are $2,200 one-way -UP fares on JFK-SFO that book into D inventory (fare basis YA0UPDMR). If you think AA can get away with providing coach service at that fare with no fare differential refund, you're sorely mistaken.
Think of it this way: I can buy a "Q" fare and confirm a seat in economy for $200 (one-way), or I can buy an "I" fare and confirm a seat in business class for $1000. I choose the $1000 "I" fare. If something happens and I end up flying in coach, I will be arguing for an $800 refund. What jury will refuse? The argument is pretty straightforward in the absence of any explicit language in the fare rules or contract of carriage indicating otherwise.
I'd point out that there are $2,200 one-way -UP fares on JFK-SFO that book into D inventory (fare basis YA0UPDMR). If you think AA can get away with providing coach service at that fare with no fare differential refund, you're sorely mistaken.
Jul 30, 2010, 9:18 pm
#26
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 6,546
The misinformation really needs to be corrected here. Of course AA is going to accommodate a *UP passenger during IRROPS with any available first class seat. It's not even the slightest bit of risk that AA is going to book you onto another flight in coach while first class seats fly empty (or fly with last minute coach-fare upgrades or non-revs). It will never happen. Never.
The only issue is what happens during IRROPS when the flight the customer wants to be reaccommodated on is sold-out completly in first class. Of course AA is not going to bump a confirmed first-class passenger off the plane to accommodate the IRROPS passenger. So, AA let's the passenger decide. Fly coach on the flight you want or fly in first on the very next flight with an open first class seat. If you choose the former, that is your choice and the terms of the fare call for no refund.
The only issue is what happens during IRROPS when the flight the customer wants to be reaccommodated on is sold-out completly in first class. Of course AA is not going to bump a confirmed first-class passenger off the plane to accommodate the IRROPS passenger. So, AA let's the passenger decide. Fly coach on the flight you want or fly in first on the very next flight with an open first class seat. If you choose the former, that is your choice and the terms of the fare call for no refund.
Jul 30, 2010, 9:45 pm
#30
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 6,546
Code:
From: Los Angeles, CA (LAX-Los Angeles Intl.)
To: Houston, TX (IAH-George Bush Intercontinental)
Fare Basis Code: KA0UPPMR
V FARE BASIS BK FARE TRAVEL-TICKET AP MINMAX RTG
1 KA0UPPMR P‡X 582.00 ---- - -/ - 8
PASSENGER TYPE-ADT AUTO PRICE-YES
FROM-LAX TO-HOU CXR-AA TVL-05JUN11 RULE-2000 DFR/11
FARE BASIS-KA0UPPMR NORMAL FARE DIS-N VENDOR-ATP
FARE TYPE-ER OW-ECONOMY RESTRICTED
USD 541.40 0008 E26JUL10 D-INFINITY FC-KA0UPPMR FN-
SYSTEM DATES - CREATED 26JUL10/1224 EXPIRES INFINITY