Virgin America tentatively approved. Effect on AA out of SFO?
May 20, 2007, 8:20 am
#16
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As a former UA 1K, I see UA as suffering the most given they are the weakest link for those traveling Y class in the NYC - SFO market..
UA has the smallest presence in the NYC market. Unlike AA, DL and B6 which all have hubs at JFK, UA has dismantled their former JFK mini hub in favor of IAD. UA has a poor Y class product (depsite the PS branding) and typically has higher NYC-SFO fares vs AA.
UA has essentially abidicated the NYC Y class market and I cannot recall the last time I saw a New York City specific UA ad (as opposed to a general national ad) in NYC (print, newspaper, billboard, TV or radio spot).
Meanwhile, DL is bulking up their JFK hub, AA adding is a flight and will soon fully occupy an new (if uninspired) JFK terminal and B6 recently entered the market with MRTC, DTV, a customer committment and newer planes than UA. Soon B6 will have a new JFK terminal as well.
For Y class pax, UA's vaunted PS service has been downgraded and IMO less comfortable or entertaining than B6's cabin.
UA might as well just convert their 757s to all F and C configuration given their neglect of the Y product in this market, or use 737s configured in F and C class only.
UA has the smallest presence in the NYC market. Unlike AA, DL and B6 which all have hubs at JFK, UA has dismantled their former JFK mini hub in favor of IAD. UA has a poor Y class product (depsite the PS branding) and typically has higher NYC-SFO fares vs AA.
UA has essentially abidicated the NYC Y class market and I cannot recall the last time I saw a New York City specific UA ad (as opposed to a general national ad) in NYC (print, newspaper, billboard, TV or radio spot).
Meanwhile, DL is bulking up their JFK hub, AA adding is a flight and will soon fully occupy an new (if uninspired) JFK terminal and B6 recently entered the market with MRTC, DTV, a customer committment and newer planes than UA. Soon B6 will have a new JFK terminal as well.
For Y class pax, UA's vaunted PS service has been downgraded and IMO less comfortable or entertaining than B6's cabin.
UA might as well just convert their 757s to all F and C configuration given their neglect of the Y product in this market, or use 737s configured in F and C class only.
May 20, 2007, 8:36 am
#17
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The problem for the legacy airlines is likely to be the HUGE gap in the main cabins. Anyone not always flying F/J will look stupid flying the legacy coach for around the same price. VA will have no problems filling their 12 premium seats with all paid seats. How many of the AA/UA/CO premium seats will be paid seats to justify their wide bodies?
Looks like whatever market share VA wants to take in these routes it is there for the taking especially in the beginning when the planes and interiors are new and the buzz will be there. How much effect it will have on the legacies remains to be seen.
The thing that VA makes dangerous for legacy airlines is that as a consumer branding company Virgin (and it will inherit that culture regardless of the level of investment from outside the US) will outsmart all the legacy airlines marketing combined (not that it is difficult to do with the type of people AA has got in its marketing).
Expect to see some very clever ads and gimmicks where the competitor's outdated cabins and service will be exposed brutally as your "father's oldsmobile". The target market for VA main cabins will not be the bottom feeding families that fly WN but the young and the chic students and professionals that will show brand loyalty (as opposed to FF loyalty) as they grow up.
All in all, it is great for the consumer!
Looks like whatever market share VA wants to take in these routes it is there for the taking especially in the beginning when the planes and interiors are new and the buzz will be there. How much effect it will have on the legacies remains to be seen.
The thing that VA makes dangerous for legacy airlines is that as a consumer branding company Virgin (and it will inherit that culture regardless of the level of investment from outside the US) will outsmart all the legacy airlines marketing combined (not that it is difficult to do with the type of people AA has got in its marketing).
Expect to see some very clever ads and gimmicks where the competitor's outdated cabins and service will be exposed brutally as your "father's oldsmobile". The target market for VA main cabins will not be the bottom feeding families that fly WN but the young and the chic students and professionals that will show brand loyalty (as opposed to FF loyalty) as they grow up.
All in all, it is great for the consumer!
May 20, 2007, 3:28 pm
#18
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Did they cut ORD to BOS?
May 20, 2007, 4:20 pm
#19
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As a former UA 1K, I see UA as suffering the most given they are the weakest link for those traveling Y class in the NYC - SFO market..
UA has the smallest presence in the NYC market. Unlike AA, DL and B6 which all have hubs at JFK, UA has dismantled their former JFK mini hub in favor of IAD. UA has a poor Y class product (depsite the PS branding) and typically has higher NYC-SFO fares vs AA.
UA has essentially abidicated the NYC Y class market and I cannot recall the last time I saw a New York City specific UA ad (as opposed to a general national ad) in NYC (print, newspaper, billboard, TV or radio spot).
Meanwhile, DL is bulking up their JFK hub, AA adding is a flight and will soon fully occupy an new (if uninspired) JFK terminal and B6 recently entered the market with MRTC, DTV, a customer committment and newer planes than UA. Soon B6 will have a new JFK terminal as well.
UA has the smallest presence in the NYC market. Unlike AA, DL and B6 which all have hubs at JFK, UA has dismantled their former JFK mini hub in favor of IAD. UA has a poor Y class product (depsite the PS branding) and typically has higher NYC-SFO fares vs AA.
UA has essentially abidicated the NYC Y class market and I cannot recall the last time I saw a New York City specific UA ad (as opposed to a general national ad) in NYC (print, newspaper, billboard, TV or radio spot).
Meanwhile, DL is bulking up their JFK hub, AA adding is a flight and will soon fully occupy an new (if uninspired) JFK terminal and B6 recently entered the market with MRTC, DTV, a customer committment and newer planes than UA. Soon B6 will have a new JFK terminal as well.
But aren't the other airlines comparatively weak on the SFO end of the route? Why isn't that such an issue?
Likewise, is Virgin America inherently flawed and doomed for centering its operations on SFO instead of JFK?
May 20, 2007, 4:29 pm
#20
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Virgin Blue/Virgin Pacific/Virgin America/Virgin Nigeria and Virgin Atlantic could become a global non-aligned (apart from the SQ connection with VA) but co-operative airline.
And as the US continues to look back to the Middle East and Europe, there is China stirring on the doorstep of the West Coast - that's where the growth will be and a perfect feeder for taking that international traffic into the domestic market is SFO.
May 21, 2007, 5:45 am
#21
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If I were CEO for a day..........
May 21, 2007, 7:00 am
#22
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Vx
If you have ever flown on Virgin (regardless ofclass) you'll know their product will be better than AA's. No such thing as GA's and FA's who could care less about service forone.^
May 21, 2007, 11:52 am
#24
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I agree with Globehopper. This is a much bigger potential threat for UA than for AA. AA has already trimmed its SFO operations; look for some cutbacks to UA's schedule if VX thrives.
May 21, 2007, 1:31 pm
#25
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May 21, 2007, 2:08 pm
#26
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I've only flown VS once and that was far from the impression I got, the service on my JFK-LHR flight in Y was abyssmal, about the worst inflight service I've ever experienced. The service on the return flight, LHR-JFK, was average, so at least it was better.
Jul 19, 2007, 1:26 am
#27
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just waiting to see if AA matches fares now....
Virgin America to Begin Selling Tickets; Inaugural Flights Set for Aug. 8
SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- Maverick airline Virgin America plans to begin selling tickets Thursday, giving travelers their first chance to book a trip on planes equipped to pamper passengers even when they aren't flying first-class.
The airline's inaugural flights are scheduled to take off Aug. 8 from Los Angeles and New York's John F. Kennedy International Airport and arrive at roughly the same time late that morning in San Francisco, which will serve as Virgin America's hub.
Tickets for the flights were expected to go on sale Thursday around 3 a.m. PDT through Virgin America's Web site and customer service number, 877-359-8474. A one-way ticket between Los Angeles and San Francisco will start at $44, while one-way tickets for the San Francisco-New York flights will start at $139.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070719/virgin_america.html?.v=2
SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- Maverick airline Virgin America plans to begin selling tickets Thursday, giving travelers their first chance to book a trip on planes equipped to pamper passengers even when they aren't flying first-class.
The airline's inaugural flights are scheduled to take off Aug. 8 from Los Angeles and New York's John F. Kennedy International Airport and arrive at roughly the same time late that morning in San Francisco, which will serve as Virgin America's hub.
Tickets for the flights were expected to go on sale Thursday around 3 a.m. PDT through Virgin America's Web site and customer service number, 877-359-8474. A one-way ticket between Los Angeles and San Francisco will start at $44, while one-way tickets for the San Francisco-New York flights will start at $139.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070719/virgin_america.html?.v=2
Jul 19, 2007, 4:50 am
#28
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Given RT F on AA 762s JFK/SFO is $4700, if VX F (which looks in the pics comparable to AA 762 F - cant tell for sure until it goes live) is well-priced - i.e. - $1,500 to $2,000 RT and there is a good schedule, I think they could do very well. I would certainly try it.
http://www.virginamerica.com/differe...firstclass.php
http://www.virginamerica.com/differe...firstclass.php
Jul 19, 2007, 5:53 am
#29
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Jul 19, 2007, 6:14 am
#30
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As for GAs, I will bet that over time (if not sooner), VX's GAs at JFK will stink just as much as those at AA, DL, UA, etc.). Even VS has a bunch of not-so-nice GAs at JFK as do other international airlines with a reputation for service. It's New York!..when VS encounters their share of delays and cancellations at JFK due to ATC or thunderstorms, and those $139 one-way passengers start b!tching...watch out...