AA sets new policy limits on onboard waiting during delays
Pilots are generally the most rational employees an airline has.
May 2, 2007, 9:56 am
#123
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 12,097
This is getting juicy. Apparently AA (again) completely lied outright to us. Hey, there's no penalty for doing so!
[the date was] 4/24/2007. The FAA and DOT are aware and doing an investigation now. American Airlines denied that there were any planes that sat for more than 4 hours to the major press organizations, so that's why they didn't write about it right away. When they found out that I knew about the DOT investigating and that they were exposed, they suddenly changed their tune and admitted that 13 jets sat for more than 4 hours etc.
I think the FAA doesn't want to be responsible for a cover up.
Kate
Kate Hanni
Real Estate Broker
(XXX)XXX-XXXX cellular
Spokesperson and Founder
Coalition for an Airline Passengers' Bill of Rights
http://strandedpassengers.blogspot.com/
I think the FAA doesn't want to be responsible for a cover up.
Kate
Kate Hanni
Real Estate Broker
(XXX)XXX-XXXX cellular
Spokesperson and Founder
Coalition for an Airline Passengers' Bill of Rights
http://strandedpassengers.blogspot.com/
May 2, 2007, 10:15 am
#124
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 12,097
For the record, AA566/24APR is scheduled as a 2:15 flight (block time, i.e. gate to gate) leaving PHX at 10:50 and arriving DFW at 15:05 local (13:05 departure time zone). The actual flying (in-the-air) time on the day before and the day after was 1:47.
It's wholly appropriate to think that people would only pack a light lunch or decide to eat at the destination.
On 24 April, this flight left 5 minutes early at 10:45. It flew for 1:45 to Midland (MAF), landing at 14:48 local. It did not take off from MAF until 22:47 (almost 11pm -- was on the ground for 7 hours and 59 minutes), landing DFW at 23:27 and arriving at the gate at 23:40 (21:40 departure time zone). The total actual block time (gate to gate) was 10:55, i.e. 11 hours, or FIVE times the scheduled time.
Given this data, there's no excuse for AA not to provide dinner or allowing people to disembark. It's absolutely shameful. You board for a 2 hour lunch flight and are trapped without food for 11 hours, forced to skip dinner. I would have a severe problem with it, and am a healthy person, but I can only think about small kids not having an afternoon snack and dinner, or the elderly. I can only imagine the crankiness of the passengers!
I know the standard response in FT is "you should pack (more) with you" -- but this one truly doesn't apply here. Give me a break -- an 11 hour flight without nothing more than one serving of BOB crAAp which I'm sure ran out very quickly? Or enough drinks for everyone? AAARGH.
Sources: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL556/history and http://www.flightstats.com/go/Flight...04-24&x=15&y=5
It's wholly appropriate to think that people would only pack a light lunch or decide to eat at the destination.
On 24 April, this flight left 5 minutes early at 10:45. It flew for 1:45 to Midland (MAF), landing at 14:48 local. It did not take off from MAF until 22:47 (almost 11pm -- was on the ground for 7 hours and 59 minutes), landing DFW at 23:27 and arriving at the gate at 23:40 (21:40 departure time zone). The total actual block time (gate to gate) was 10:55, i.e. 11 hours, or FIVE times the scheduled time.
Given this data, there's no excuse for AA not to provide dinner or allowing people to disembark. It's absolutely shameful. You board for a 2 hour lunch flight and are trapped without food for 11 hours, forced to skip dinner. I would have a severe problem with it, and am a healthy person, but I can only think about small kids not having an afternoon snack and dinner, or the elderly. I can only imagine the crankiness of the passengers!
I know the standard response in FT is "you should pack (more) with you" -- but this one truly doesn't apply here. Give me a break -- an 11 hour flight without nothing more than one serving of BOB crAAp which I'm sure ran out very quickly? Or enough drinks for everyone? AAARGH.
Sources: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL556/history and http://www.flightstats.com/go/Flight...04-24&x=15&y=5
May 2, 2007, 10:32 am
#125
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: AA GLD (1MM), DL GLD, Marriott Plat, RCL D+, X Elite
Posts: 3,229
I am happy to read that the stranded passengers group isn't just accepting everything as the truth without checking the facts. Please don't read my suspicion of the various stories that get posted from time to time as saying that something doesn't need to be done about the quality of airline service industry-wide, and at AA specifically. Frankly, habitually poor service to Customers is one of the 3 reasons I left the airline business.
On the flip side of that, I have had first-hand knowlege of 1 or 2 "wild tales" told by a Customer that I knew not to be true. So, I approach stories such as this with the attitude of "ok, that sounds bad, tell me more" as opposed to automatically assuming that any airline did something wrong again just because they did last time.
I am, however, doubtful that a legislated "bill of rights" will be the end-all panacea that many think it will be. Like any similar effort, there will be unintended consequences.
On the flip side of that, I have had first-hand knowlege of 1 or 2 "wild tales" told by a Customer that I knew not to be true. So, I approach stories such as this with the attitude of "ok, that sounds bad, tell me more" as opposed to automatically assuming that any airline did something wrong again just because they did last time.
I am, however, doubtful that a legislated "bill of rights" will be the end-all panacea that many think it will be. Like any similar effort, there will be unintended consequences.
Last edited by MJonTravel; May 2, 2007 at 10:43 am
May 2, 2007, 10:47 am
#126
Join Date: Dec 2005
Programs: CO Gold, UA Premier Exec
Posts: 1,539
For the record, AA566/24APR is scheduled as a 2:15 flight (block time, i.e. gate to gate) leaving PHX at 10:50 and arriving DFW at 15:05 local (13:05 departure time zone). The actual flying (in-the-air) time on the day before and the day after was 1:47.
It's wholly appropriate to think that people would only pack a light lunch or decide to eat at the destination.
On 24 April, this flight left 5 minutes early at 10:45. It flew for 1:45 to Midland (MAF), landing at 14:48 local. It did not take off from MAF until 22:47 (almost 11pm -- was on the ground for 7 hours and 59 minutes), landing DFW at 23:27 and arriving at the gate at 23:40 (21:40 departure time zone). The total actual block time (gate to gate) was 10:55, i.e. 11 hours, or FIVE times the scheduled time.
Given this data, there's no excuse for AA not to provide dinner or allowing people to disembark. It's absolutely shameful. You board for a 2 hour lunch flight and are trapped without food for 11 hours, forced to skip dinner. I would have a severe problem with it, and am a healthy person, but I can only think about small kids not having an afternoon snack and dinner, or the elderly. I can only imagine the crankiness of the passengers!
I know the standard response in FT is "you should pack (more) with you" -- but this one truly doesn't apply here. Give me a break -- an 11 hour flight without nothing more than one serving of BOB crAAp which I'm sure ran out very quickly? Or enough drinks for everyone? AAARGH.
Sources: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL556/history and http://www.flightstats.com/go/Flight...04-24&x=15&y=5
It's wholly appropriate to think that people would only pack a light lunch or decide to eat at the destination.
On 24 April, this flight left 5 minutes early at 10:45. It flew for 1:45 to Midland (MAF), landing at 14:48 local. It did not take off from MAF until 22:47 (almost 11pm -- was on the ground for 7 hours and 59 minutes), landing DFW at 23:27 and arriving at the gate at 23:40 (21:40 departure time zone). The total actual block time (gate to gate) was 10:55, i.e. 11 hours, or FIVE times the scheduled time.
Given this data, there's no excuse for AA not to provide dinner or allowing people to disembark. It's absolutely shameful. You board for a 2 hour lunch flight and are trapped without food for 11 hours, forced to skip dinner. I would have a severe problem with it, and am a healthy person, but I can only think about small kids not having an afternoon snack and dinner, or the elderly. I can only imagine the crankiness of the passengers!
I know the standard response in FT is "you should pack (more) with you" -- but this one truly doesn't apply here. Give me a break -- an 11 hour flight without nothing more than one serving of BOB crAAp which I'm sure ran out very quickly? Or enough drinks for everyone? AAARGH.
Sources: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL556/history and http://www.flightstats.com/go/Flight...04-24&x=15&y=5
The flight blocked IN at 1504 local time in MAF, which means that front door was opened. They refueled and blocked out at 1530 and then blocked back IN at 1654 (most likely due to another groundstop). Then they sat until 2230.
Just an observation, but if I wasn't going to let people off that plane, I'm sure as hell going to get paid for it and not BLOCK IN. They had that door open with the break set after they blocked in at 1654 until 2230.
I smell BS somewhere in the story.
May 2, 2007, 10:57 am
#127
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: BWI
Programs: AA PLT and that's that!
Posts: 8,349
Still waiting for a reputable link for this story.
May 2, 2007, 11:00 am
#128
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 12,097
Pilots generally know what the right thing to do for passengers is (they do it all the time) -- remember that the AUS accident was terminated by the Captain's blatant disobeying AA orders by pulling into a gate exasperated after ~8 hours even though AA had forbidden him to do so. I smell a similar situation here -- the second block IN/OUT is for a whopping 6 hours 34 minutes but he/she was not at a jetway.
May 2, 2007, 11:04 am
#129
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 12,097
Define reputable. People still argue that man never set foot on the moon even though it was on TV. Is a blog reputable? Is the NYT reporting on weapons of mass destruction in Iraq reputable?
But we all know that airlines treat passengers humanely, so no amount of evidence will sway the man-never-landed-on-the-moon set.
But we all know that airlines treat passengers humanely, so no amount of evidence will sway the man-never-landed-on-the-moon set.
May 2, 2007, 11:19 am
#130
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bansko, Bulgaria
Programs: Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 1,260
Well we had a similar experience on March 29 Flight 1145 EWR DFW
After almost an hour delay, the gate agent started calling the boarding as if she were not even watching. In the end, it was a mad rush for the entire plane to get on all at once. It was the ugliest boarding I have ever seen on an American Airlines plane... it was an indication of things to come....
Somewhere over Mississippi, we checked our progress on the handheld GPS, "When do you think we will start making our turn to the west?" We weren't heading west... we were... "Ladies and Gentlemen, considering the bad weather over Dallas, our landing slot has closed and we have been diverted to Houston for refuelling." Oh crap... this is going to be a long night.
Eventually landing in Houston, we sat there for four and half hours, waiting... watching... they finally let a few of the passengers off (I suppose the ones whose ultimate destination was Houston and a couple who were feeling ill by that time) but with no other connection options we were on flight 1145 for the duration...
We took off and went out to Abilene... doing figure 8's in the sky... waiting two and a half hours for a slot to land... The pilot came on and announced that we would be diverting to Austin to wait out the storm and refuel again (evidently the don't like to load up on fuel anymore?)... sat on the ground in Austin for an hour and a half... then back into the sky for a not so short hop back to Dallas. The time: 1:30 AM. Oh yeah and we'd had 1!!! beverage service with snacks... that's it! So now - you bet I carry food & water on every flight even if it's supposed to be 2 hrs... (hmm am I hearing the theme from Gilligan's Island in the back ground... a 3 hour tour a 3 hour tour...)
After 0 help from the gate agent regarding any information we ended up on a $75 cab ride to a hotel on the other side of town.
Now to add insult to injury they have not credited the miles for this flight yet (after repeated emails/calls) and that's all my husband has left to go AAplat...
After almost an hour delay, the gate agent started calling the boarding as if she were not even watching. In the end, it was a mad rush for the entire plane to get on all at once. It was the ugliest boarding I have ever seen on an American Airlines plane... it was an indication of things to come....
Somewhere over Mississippi, we checked our progress on the handheld GPS, "When do you think we will start making our turn to the west?" We weren't heading west... we were... "Ladies and Gentlemen, considering the bad weather over Dallas, our landing slot has closed and we have been diverted to Houston for refuelling." Oh crap... this is going to be a long night.
Eventually landing in Houston, we sat there for four and half hours, waiting... watching... they finally let a few of the passengers off (I suppose the ones whose ultimate destination was Houston and a couple who were feeling ill by that time) but with no other connection options we were on flight 1145 for the duration...
We took off and went out to Abilene... doing figure 8's in the sky... waiting two and a half hours for a slot to land... The pilot came on and announced that we would be diverting to Austin to wait out the storm and refuel again (evidently the don't like to load up on fuel anymore?)... sat on the ground in Austin for an hour and a half... then back into the sky for a not so short hop back to Dallas. The time: 1:30 AM. Oh yeah and we'd had 1!!! beverage service with snacks... that's it! So now - you bet I carry food & water on every flight even if it's supposed to be 2 hrs... (hmm am I hearing the theme from Gilligan's Island in the back ground... a 3 hour tour a 3 hour tour...)
After 0 help from the gate agent regarding any information we ended up on a $75 cab ride to a hotel on the other side of town.
Now to add insult to injury they have not credited the miles for this flight yet (after repeated emails/calls) and that's all my husband has left to go AAplat...
Last edited by bzbdewd; May 2, 2007 at 12:06 pm Reason: corrected info
May 2, 2007, 11:29 am
#131
Join Date: Dec 2005
Programs: CO Gold, UA Premier Exec
Posts: 1,539
Well we had a similar experience on March 29 Flight 1145 Dallas to PHX.
After almost an hour delay, the gate agent started calling the boarding as if she were not even watching. In the end, it was a mad rush for the entire plane to get on all at once. It was the ugliest boarding I have ever seen on an American Airlines plane... it was an indication of things to come....
Somewhere over Mississippi, we checked our progress on the handheld GPS, "When do you think we will start making our turn to the west?" We weren't heading west... we were... "Ladies and Gentlemen, considering the bad weather over Dallas, our landing slot has closed and we have been diverted to Houston for refuelling." Oh crap... this is going to be a long night.
Eventually landing in Houston, we sat there for four and half hours, waiting... watching... they finally let a few of the passengers off (I suppose the ones whose ultimate destination was Houston and a couple who were feeling ill by that time) but with no other connection options we were on flight 1145 for the duration...
We took off and went out to Abilene... doing figure 8's in the sky... waiting two and a half hours for a slot to land... The pilot came on and announced that we would be diverting to Austin to wait out the storm and refuel again (evidently the don't like to load up on fuel anymore?)... sat on the ground in Austin for an hour and a half... then back into the sky for a not so short hop back to Dallas. The time: 1:30 AM. Oh yeah and we'd had 1!!! beverage service with snacks... that's it! So now - you bet I carry food & water on every flight even if it's supposed to be 2 hrs... (hmm am I hearing the theme from Gilligan's Island in the back ground... a 3 hour tour a 3 hour tour...)
After 0 help from the gate agent regarding any information we ended up on a $75 cab ride to a hotel on the other side of town.
Now to add insult to injury they have not credited the miles for this flight yet (after repeated emails/calls) and that's all my husband has left to go AAplat...
After almost an hour delay, the gate agent started calling the boarding as if she were not even watching. In the end, it was a mad rush for the entire plane to get on all at once. It was the ugliest boarding I have ever seen on an American Airlines plane... it was an indication of things to come....
Somewhere over Mississippi, we checked our progress on the handheld GPS, "When do you think we will start making our turn to the west?" We weren't heading west... we were... "Ladies and Gentlemen, considering the bad weather over Dallas, our landing slot has closed and we have been diverted to Houston for refuelling." Oh crap... this is going to be a long night.
Eventually landing in Houston, we sat there for four and half hours, waiting... watching... they finally let a few of the passengers off (I suppose the ones whose ultimate destination was Houston and a couple who were feeling ill by that time) but with no other connection options we were on flight 1145 for the duration...
We took off and went out to Abilene... doing figure 8's in the sky... waiting two and a half hours for a slot to land... The pilot came on and announced that we would be diverting to Austin to wait out the storm and refuel again (evidently the don't like to load up on fuel anymore?)... sat on the ground in Austin for an hour and a half... then back into the sky for a not so short hop back to Dallas. The time: 1:30 AM. Oh yeah and we'd had 1!!! beverage service with snacks... that's it! So now - you bet I carry food & water on every flight even if it's supposed to be 2 hrs... (hmm am I hearing the theme from Gilligan's Island in the back ground... a 3 hour tour a 3 hour tour...)
After 0 help from the gate agent regarding any information we ended up on a $75 cab ride to a hotel on the other side of town.
Now to add insult to injury they have not credited the miles for this flight yet (after repeated emails/calls) and that's all my husband has left to go AAplat...
GPS's are not approved for use on board
May 2, 2007, 11:57 am
#134
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 12,097
Poster a bit confused as AA1145 is EWR-DFW (maybe he/she was connecting on to PHX) and it did visit IAH and AUS on that day (source: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL1145/history). Here's the actual path -- quite crooked http://flightaware.com/live/flight_t...ime=1175210760
May 2, 2007, 12:03 pm
#135
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bansko, Bulgaria
Programs: Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 1,260
My apologies... it was the EWR DFW portion of our flight... have to edit that...
And considering the fact that the FA actually came by and LOOKED at the GPS during some of our loops over Abilene I guess that's not a hard & fast rule.
And considering the fact that the FA actually came by and LOOKED at the GPS during some of our loops over Abilene I guess that's not a hard & fast rule.