ARCHIVE: Airbus A321 Transcon / A321T / "32B" 3 class (consolidated 2012-2014)
Jul 23, 2012, 10:53 pm
#166
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: ORD / MDW / FLL
Programs: DL DM/1MM, AA EXP, SPG Platinum, Hyatt Platinum, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 2,295
I would sell my soul to have these planes running ORD-LAX and ORD-SFO. Service on this route is so lousy with all the players (AA, UA, WN, VX) and the tiny planes on most flights. No question VX has everyone beat on the ORD-west coast flights.
Jul 23, 2012, 11:00 pm
#167
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: New York
Posts: 7,358
I don't know if I am surprised with American Airlines' announcement.
The A321s transcontinental sub-fleet look wonderful, but the new ratio of J to Y has increased from .17 to .19 but upgrade chances will decrease if the number of revenue J passengers remain the same and there are less open seats available for upgrades. Of course that will depend if elites will remain loyal with AA on a most likely decreased supply of discounted economy seats (58 less Y seats per flight) and more expensive last minute tickets and less availability. Hopefully there will be more frequencies but slots will be an issue.
I presume the 10F decision is based on the configuration of the plane and I guess it is just too much work to use half of the front cabin as F and the other as J. But I presume if the demands have reduced, they can just use 6F and add 8 J seats.
Galley - airlines have the say about them and Airbus will accomodate AA's specification. I can't imagine F and J sharing the same galley, and they may just add a galley in Door 2 area for the J cabin. They can store some extra stuff in the Y galley in the back, but I think it is fair to say that the galley placement will be similar to UA p.s. J - one front galley for F, one mid-galley for J, and one galley in Y.
F/As - for F, I think it is pretty safe to say that it remains 2 F/A, but J will possibly see 2 F/As too (instead of 3), and Y will possibly get 2 F/As, since they no longer do meals. With only slightly over 100 passengers, 6 F/As sound about right. I am sure 7 F/As will be nice, but can't imagine AA will go for them unless their premium cabins are filled with paying passengers.
PTV - I am sort of disappointed with the lack of Live TV, but live text news and weather forecasts and up to date gate connection information are good enough.
I also presume AA will continue run some 767-300ERs flights on the SFO market, and if demands warrant, I am sure AA can add one or two 77W flights (LHR rotation). Too bad the 772 will have F removed. But I am sure AA can easily add one 77W in between those LHR and South American flights.
But I really like the fact that AA is installing individual power ports and USB drives at every seats. This feature will bring AA to the top of the game again. I hope Y will really see one power port and one USB port per seat, rather than then three seats share two power ports deal. With so many i-phones and i-pads, these power ports will be important amenity.
Catering - judging from the videos, new chinas and glasses are coming too. I really hope that they finally change the menus - the same food for the past five years is unacceptable. Please do a new rotation annually. The current lunch service is cheap and with new products, please just serve the same food for lunches and dinners. It is just not premium when you serve a warmed turkey sandwich in a supposedly flagship first class product.
Now I wonder what United will do, and what Delta will do!
Carfield
The A321s transcontinental sub-fleet look wonderful, but the new ratio of J to Y has increased from .17 to .19 but upgrade chances will decrease if the number of revenue J passengers remain the same and there are less open seats available for upgrades. Of course that will depend if elites will remain loyal with AA on a most likely decreased supply of discounted economy seats (58 less Y seats per flight) and more expensive last minute tickets and less availability. Hopefully there will be more frequencies but slots will be an issue.
I presume the 10F decision is based on the configuration of the plane and I guess it is just too much work to use half of the front cabin as F and the other as J. But I presume if the demands have reduced, they can just use 6F and add 8 J seats.
Galley - airlines have the say about them and Airbus will accomodate AA's specification. I can't imagine F and J sharing the same galley, and they may just add a galley in Door 2 area for the J cabin. They can store some extra stuff in the Y galley in the back, but I think it is fair to say that the galley placement will be similar to UA p.s. J - one front galley for F, one mid-galley for J, and one galley in Y.
F/As - for F, I think it is pretty safe to say that it remains 2 F/A, but J will possibly see 2 F/As too (instead of 3), and Y will possibly get 2 F/As, since they no longer do meals. With only slightly over 100 passengers, 6 F/As sound about right. I am sure 7 F/As will be nice, but can't imagine AA will go for them unless their premium cabins are filled with paying passengers.
PTV - I am sort of disappointed with the lack of Live TV, but live text news and weather forecasts and up to date gate connection information are good enough.
I also presume AA will continue run some 767-300ERs flights on the SFO market, and if demands warrant, I am sure AA can add one or two 77W flights (LHR rotation). Too bad the 772 will have F removed. But I am sure AA can easily add one 77W in between those LHR and South American flights.
But I really like the fact that AA is installing individual power ports and USB drives at every seats. This feature will bring AA to the top of the game again. I hope Y will really see one power port and one USB port per seat, rather than then three seats share two power ports deal. With so many i-phones and i-pads, these power ports will be important amenity.
Catering - judging from the videos, new chinas and glasses are coming too. I really hope that they finally change the menus - the same food for the past five years is unacceptable. Please do a new rotation annually. The current lunch service is cheap and with new products, please just serve the same food for lunches and dinners. It is just not premium when you serve a warmed turkey sandwich in a supposedly flagship first class product.
Now I wonder what United will do, and what Delta will do!
Carfield
Last edited by Carfield; Jul 24, 2012 at 3:14 pm
Jul 23, 2012, 11:04 pm
#168
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: SFO/OAK
Programs: AA/EXP 3MM; UA/1K; HY/DIA; SPG/PLT; Fairmont/Life PLT
Posts: 2,232
+ Somebody mentioned use of 2L. Does an A 321T have a 2L forward of the wings? All of the supervisors and Management that I have spoken to at LAX have stated that they are not set up at LAX to consistently use 2L on the B752. (I've not seen 2L used at LAX on an AA 752). Not sure about 2L at JFK, but it is used at SFO.
Jul 23, 2012, 11:35 pm
#169
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: DTW
Programs: AA EXP, DL FO
Posts: 1,719
Bingo. B6, DL, UA and VX will be happy to take those customers.
AA isn't going to expand just serving EXPs and people who buy 3-class transcontinental F. Maybe a top-heavy premium strategy works for them, but it does fly in the face of everything that has happened the last 40 years in the industry. It will be interesting to see it play out.
AA isn't going to expand just serving EXPs and people who buy 3-class transcontinental F. Maybe a top-heavy premium strategy works for them, but it does fly in the face of everything that has happened the last 40 years in the industry. It will be interesting to see it play out.
Expansion isn't always the most profitable strategy.
Jul 23, 2012, 11:52 pm
#170
Join Date: May 2006
Location: MYF/CMA/SAN/YYZ/YKF
Programs: COdbaUA 1K MM, AA EXP, Bonbon Gold, GHA Titanium, Hertz PC, NEXUS and GE
Posts: 5,840
How exactly is AA going to make money on these flights with 72 coach seats? The 10 First class seats will be either filled with Non Revs, Awards or those 1-2 people who purchased the J seat and then got upgraded. The J cabin will be filled with 90% coach travelers who get upgraded to Business. Thus basically you will have about 90 people paying Coach fares and max 5 people paying J fares on the entire flight. Looks like AA will be heading to a second bankruptcy again in 2014/2015
UA is doing the same thing.
Whoa...how are they going to make money on a 102-seat A321? I mean, don't get me wrong, I love the concept...but is there enough business travel demand for it? Seems like the existing 3-cabin transcon products don't pull quite so many seats out of the plane vs. what a 2-cabin configuration would have.
Flying with 102 pax solves the problem of westbound range. The A321neo can't fly transcon west with a standard configuration without stopping. It sounds as if AA has decided that the combination of lower operating costs plus premium revenue will make this work. That's good news for pax, because it means that without major advances in engine efficiency, they are unlikely to change their minds and try to cram in more seats.
Anyone consider the benefit of a more relaxed boarding experience with only 72Y pax? Once the caviar and bubbly crowd board, and they're done with EXP etc, there's probably only going to be a couple dozen Y pax left 
OTOH, what's the max cruise speed of the 321neo vs 762/763? Wonder if that adds any significant time in the air? I'd guess 30 -45 minutes longer but that's a pure WAG...
OTOH, what's the max cruise speed of the 321neo vs 762/763? Wonder if that adds any significant time in the air? I'd guess 30 -45 minutes longer but that's a pure WAG...
Jul 24, 2012, 12:34 am
#171
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: SFO
Programs: UA GS
Posts: 164
I know those planes are super old and need to be replaced, but I will miss AA providing the only double-aisle service between JFK and SFO. I always appreciated how big the plane was given it's such a long flight.
But I also won't pay as much attention to the size of the plane given the PTE I can stare at the entire time
But I also won't pay as much attention to the size of the plane given the PTE I can stare at the entire time
Jul 24, 2012, 12:39 am
#172
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 95
I had suspected over the last few years that AA was working very hard to cut the widebody transcon flights...
In order to do so, they had to introduce a pretty convincing product (and I can see they've won over a good many of us)-- but consider me skeptical in predicting this product will quickly degrade. And then we'll be stuck with narrowbody flights for 5-6 hours on tired equipment.
In order to do so, they had to introduce a pretty convincing product (and I can see they've won over a good many of us)-- but consider me skeptical in predicting this product will quickly degrade. And then we'll be stuck with narrowbody flights for 5-6 hours on tired equipment.
Jul 24, 2012, 2:03 am
#173
Join Date: Jul 2007
Programs: QFF
Posts: 5,304
Does this mean that there won't be any 2 class transcons once the fleet renewal is complete?
Jul 24, 2012, 2:12 am
#174
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: LAX; AA EXP, MM; HH Gold
Posts: 31,789
Not at all; these planes will fly JFK-LAX/SFO and maybe LAX-MIA. Every other transcon will likely remain two class. Transcons from BOS, IAD, DCA, MCO, SAN, SEA and some from SFO and MIA are currently two class and will probably remain two class.
Jul 24, 2012, 3:17 am
#175
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: RDU
Programs: AA LTP, Bonvoy Titanium; AA CK before I retired
Posts: 1,597
The A32x cross-section is slightly wider than the 73x cross-section and accommodates six-abreast Y seats that are 18 inches wide instead of the usual 17. The extra inch does matter, but whether AA will buy 17-inchers or 18-inchers for A32x Y remains to be seen.
Jul 24, 2012, 4:09 am
#176
Join Date: Jul 2007
Programs: QFF
Posts: 5,304
They only seem to be talking about A321s and A319s. Are they not getting any normal A320s?
How will the premium cabin on the other new (non transcon) narrowbodies compare to the premium cabins on the A321T?
How will the premium cabin on the other new (non transcon) narrowbodies compare to the premium cabins on the A321T?
Jul 24, 2012, 4:41 am
#177
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: London
Programs: BA GGL, AA 1MM LT GLD, SPG PLAT, National Exec Selc, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Plat, Marriott Silver
Posts: 8,278
I don't know if I am surprised with American Airlines' announcement.
The A321s transcontinental sub-fleet look wonderful, but the new ratio of J to Y will decrease upgrade chances. I guess it is like flying Delta now, but odds on AA are still better than DL.
I presume the 10F decision is based on the configuration of the plane and I guess it is just too much work to use half of the front cabin as F and the other as J. But I presume if the demands have reduced, they can just use 6F and add 8 J seats.
Galley - airlines have the say about them and Airbus will accomodate AA's specification. I can't imagine F and J sharing the same galley, and they may just add a galley in Door 2 area for the J cabin. They can store some extra stuff in the Y galley in the back, but I think it is fair to say that the galley placement will be similar to UA p.s. J - one front galley for F, one mid-galley for J, and one galley in Y.
F/As - for F, I think it is pretty safe to say that it remains 2 F/A, but J will possibly see 2 F/As too (instead of 3), and Y will possibly get 2 F/As, since they no longer do meals. With only slightly over 100 passengers, 6 F/As sound about right. I am sure 7 F/As will be nice, but can't imagine AA will go for them unless their premium cabins are filled with paying passengers.
PTV - I am sort of disappointed with the lack of Live TV, but live text news and weather forecasts and up to date gate connection information are good enough.
I also presume AA will continue run some 767-300ERs flights on the SFO market, and if demands warrant, I am sure AA can add one or two 77W flights (LHR rotation). Too bad the 772 will have F removed. But I am sure AA can easily add one 77W in between those LHR flights.
But I really like the fact that AA is installing individual power ports and USB drives at every seats. This feature will bring AA to the top of the game again. I hope Y will really see one power port and one USB port per seat, rather than then three seats share two power ports deal. With so many i-phones and i-pads, these power ports will be important amenity.
Catering - judging from the videos, new chinas and glasses are coming too. I really hope that they finally change the menus - the same food for the past five years is unacceptable. Please do a new rotation annually. The current lunch service is cheap and with new products, please just serve the same food for lunches and dinners. It is just not premium when you serve a warmed turkey sandwich in a supposedly flagship first class product.
Now I wonder what United will do, and what Delta will do!
Carfield
The A321s transcontinental sub-fleet look wonderful, but the new ratio of J to Y will decrease upgrade chances. I guess it is like flying Delta now, but odds on AA are still better than DL.
I presume the 10F decision is based on the configuration of the plane and I guess it is just too much work to use half of the front cabin as F and the other as J. But I presume if the demands have reduced, they can just use 6F and add 8 J seats.
Galley - airlines have the say about them and Airbus will accomodate AA's specification. I can't imagine F and J sharing the same galley, and they may just add a galley in Door 2 area for the J cabin. They can store some extra stuff in the Y galley in the back, but I think it is fair to say that the galley placement will be similar to UA p.s. J - one front galley for F, one mid-galley for J, and one galley in Y.
F/As - for F, I think it is pretty safe to say that it remains 2 F/A, but J will possibly see 2 F/As too (instead of 3), and Y will possibly get 2 F/As, since they no longer do meals. With only slightly over 100 passengers, 6 F/As sound about right. I am sure 7 F/As will be nice, but can't imagine AA will go for them unless their premium cabins are filled with paying passengers.
PTV - I am sort of disappointed with the lack of Live TV, but live text news and weather forecasts and up to date gate connection information are good enough.
I also presume AA will continue run some 767-300ERs flights on the SFO market, and if demands warrant, I am sure AA can add one or two 77W flights (LHR rotation). Too bad the 772 will have F removed. But I am sure AA can easily add one 77W in between those LHR flights.
But I really like the fact that AA is installing individual power ports and USB drives at every seats. This feature will bring AA to the top of the game again. I hope Y will really see one power port and one USB port per seat, rather than then three seats share two power ports deal. With so many i-phones and i-pads, these power ports will be important amenity.
Catering - judging from the videos, new chinas and glasses are coming too. I really hope that they finally change the menus - the same food for the past five years is unacceptable. Please do a new rotation annually. The current lunch service is cheap and with new products, please just serve the same food for lunches and dinners. It is just not premium when you serve a warmed turkey sandwich in a supposedly flagship first class product.
Now I wonder what United will do, and what Delta will do!
Carfield
Jul 24, 2012, 7:07 am
#178
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,239
Because there are TWO aisles!!!!
(Seriously, some people like the fact that there are two aisles which can mean less FA blockage during service. Of course that ignores the fact that the FAs are usually in both aisles with the carts at the same time.)
(Seriously, some people like the fact that there are two aisles which can mean less FA blockage during service. Of course that ignores the fact that the FAs are usually in both aisles with the carts at the same time.)
Jul 24, 2012, 7:19 am
#179
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,239
Have you been on it? Based on the photos, it's the same seat as UA uses on most of its pre-merger CO international fleet. It's a great seat unless you have really big feet (which is a problem for many flat bed or angled flat J seats that overlap one another).
Yes, there is. For pairs, they're relatively private given the angling.
I know, that's just so awful.
There's just no natural division between the seat pairs.
To make matters worse, it has a rounded shell.
Jul 24, 2012, 7:51 am
#180
Suspended
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 954
Way to go AA! I think this move (hopefully) represents a wonderful new direction for AA's product and I this decision makes me very nostalgic for all the reasons why I used to really love flying AA as they again move towards being a flagship carrier! My personal hope is that AA continues forward with these types of strong moves as they have always been something special in the industry.