Fitch7600

Given the recent emphasis styling the airline as America's flag carrier, including the (in my view somewhat excessive at times) focus on our servicemen, I have a hunch that there will be some elements reflecting that.

havoc29

Just to set the record straight, white paint may reflect more light/heat than other paint colors, but there's no way it reflects better than polished aluminum.

joejones

A little googling turned up these articles:

http://www.connectsavannah.com/news/article/102118/
http://rack1.ul.cs.cmu.edu/hotcars/

Both indicate that shiny metal will get hotter than white-painted metal under sunlight, which matches my memories of having a car with shiny metal seatbelt buckles during the summer in Florida (ouch!)

Dr. HFH

I don't see AA dropping red altogether, especially if we're discussing things like flag carrier, tribute to armed forces, etc. Maybe the billboard version above with one red A on the tail?

saunders111

Perhaps it makes more sense to consider that hot bare metal _feels_ much hotter than hot painted metal, because the thermal conductivity of metal is much higher than that of paint, thus allowing more of the heat stored in the metal to transfer to your skin. This is the same reason that a hot pan from your oven burns you, while a hot muffin or bread loaf at the same temperature does not, if you juggle it.

Both of your links make the argument that metal surfaces get hotter in the sun because of lower blackbody radiation emittance. But isn't it true that heat transfer from a hot surface in air is totally dominated by convection, not radiation? So although nonzero, the radiative transfer difference should be a very tiny effect, I think. This is why, for example, double paned windows are such an important part of insulating your house: they eliminate convective heat transfer while leaving the radiative transfer essentially unchanged.

Incidentally, according to the intergoogle, the albedo of "white paint" is "0.5-0.9", while the albedo of bare polished aluminum is "almost exactly 1.0"...

Just the musings of an experimental physicist too lazy to do the actual calculations,
saunders111

Dr. HFH

Agreed.


The hot pan burns you because you hold it. If you juggle the pan as you do the muffin, it won't feel nearly as hot and you're much less likely to be burned (but more likely to have muffins on the floor). Note also that an aluminum pan loses its heat much more quickly than one made of steel.

pineapplejet

Very clear HD pic of N717AN. the gray seems to be matte

As of Nov 23



Never mind, on a closer look it's glossy.

OSUPoke2007

The new Airbusses and the 789 on order all have either significant carbon fiber pieces or are constructed entirely of carbon fiber which has to be painted. Combined with the exit from bankruptcy makes this a perfect time to introduce a new painted livery.

FWAAA

To clarify: the new Airbus A321s and A319s have roughly the same carbon fibre pieces as today's 738s and could be shiny, except for the battleship gray parts. The 787-9s, as you point out, have an exterior of carbon fibre that isn't shiny aluminum and requires a coating. And I agree completely that if you're going to change the livery, now is probably the time to do it.

anabolism

Flew on a fairly new plane painted in cool retro "Astrojet" livery yesterday, and during boarding was chatting with the pilot, who mentioned that Airbus used, in his words, poorer-quality aluminum that couldn't be polished. He said that the old A300s that AA flew had to be painted for the same reason. He also said that AA had temporarily painted a few planes in different livery so higher-ups could see see how they looked.

joejones

Now that the A300 has been mentioned, the paint on that 77W kind of reminds me of how the tailcone area was painted on the polished A300s.

https://www.google.com/search?q=american+a300&tbm=isch

Microwave

A few thoughts on that... First, the A300 is a decades-old design; the A320 family has been receiving regular design updates, though probably not on the fuselage itself (that said, the A320 design itself is much newer than the A300). Second, the A300 was painted mostly because there were parts of the empennage that had to be pained and the original thought was that if part of the aircraft had to be painted the rest should too. Later in the A300's AA career only the carbon parts were painted and the fuselage was polished aluminium, and this didn't cause any problems. Third, as the A320 family has been certified in both Europe and America, and has had a very good safety record, I don't see there being any possibility that poor quality aluminium was being used... Not to mention the fact that the "quality" of the aluminium wouldn't change its ability to be polished--aluminium is an element, after all. I think your pilot would have been well advised to stick to piloting, it sounds to me like he's not much of an airframe design expert.

adamj023

Airplane looks like it is ready except livery and hasn't even seen an ownership transfer to AA yet. Someone also mentioned the seats were the holdup though in addition to livery.

I am wondering if AA and Boeing are waiting for AA to exit bankruptcy before the transfer of ownership is done.

Had this been a 737-800 instead, the plane would have been already owned and in use by AA.

pineapplejet

So far there was only report on N717AN doing a B1 flight. No report on C1 flight yet. usually goes B1>C1>Delivery

AA is not the owner of this plane. N717AN (this one) and N718AN (the next one) are leased from Guggenheim Aviation Partners.
N719AN (hasn't spotted yet) is leased from Avolon Aerospace

adamj023

I meant the people acquiring it on AA's behalf. I know they lease planes but wasn't sure who owned these myself.

717AN and 718AN have indeed been spotted already. Can't wait to see the 777's in AA livery like everyone else. Shouldn't be too long till it is flying for AA.