Clipper110A

My admittedly anecdotal impression of the East-West pilots from talking to several is that they HATE each other mutually and collectively in a way that has happened at no other airline merger in history.

Add AA's bad labor juju on top of that for a real bizarre dynamic. maybe they would all neutralize each other in the confusion, but I think it would go from ultra ugly to hideous fast.

JDiver

^ Exactly!

They are still discussing, among other issues, seniority lists. Kind of reminds me of Republic's airplane running out of fuel, iirc, because of lack of CRM between pilots from two merged airlines (Hughes and Republic, iirc).

For those interested in a discussion on the difference between mergers and acquisitions in the airline business, there's a good and short study here in PDF form.

(Mergers & Acquisition in Aviation Industry:.Issues & Concerns, by Julie Desai)

I could see some AA employees considering sackcloth, ashes and wrist slitting with a US/AA "merger", particularly if they have spoken to original US employees.

MiamiAirport Formerly NY George

This has not stopped Doug Parker from trying to do other mergers/acquisitions. While AA unions have a rep on the Unsecured Creditors' Committee, if other creditors want to take a deal from USAir and more importantly if AA management is willing to go along (even if somewhat reluctantly) then the Judge can (and likely will) overrule any union objections.

Yes it could get really messy but Parker doesn't seem to be fazed by that prospect.

hazelrah

AA is last to the ball (Bankruptcy), it gets to dance with the ugly sister (USairways).

longtimelurker

My apologies if it is already being discussed somewhere, but this Reuters article from last night reports that AA's unsecured creditors "want AMR management to explore other options that may lead to a better recovery of their claims [than AA's stand-alone plan], including a potential combination with another carrier."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...81801K20120209

NorthCentralDC3

The article quoted above takes some of the emotions out of this. Ultimately, the outcome - standalone, acquired by US, split into pieces will be based on where the creditors believe they face the greatest ability to recover their investments of money. The employee groups will no doubt continue to pursue the standalone option unless they begin to question long term viability. Boeing and others probably want some form of merger. The only scenario where an Eastern Airlines style "sell of the pieces" would come into play would be if the employees prove intransigent in agreeing to lowered labor costs.

From a customer perspective, I think most things would remain the same in a merger due to the larger size of AA compared to US. Looking at past mergers, Delta and NWA essentially left the Delta passengers the winners with the Skymiles program as the survivor, United and Continental left United's Mileage Plus intact with some improvements based on benefits that Continental passengers had grown to know and love, and USAir/America West left Dividend miles intact. In each case, the larger carriers name survived, the plane were painted to match rebranding, and the resulting carrier was actually better for the customers. If USAirways acquires AA (or Vice versa) the name will no doubt be AA, the planes will be repainted, the Advantage program will remain intact, and we will have a couple more destinations that have Admirals Clubs. The only other change will be that now there will be three groups of employees that hate each other and collectively hate management.

MiamiAirport Formerly NY George

I think that this poster had given a great objective view of what an AA/US merger would look like from a FF prospective. The only negative I see is possibly a cheapen domestic F product/experience, specifically with meal service. And even that I do not see as a deal breaker unless one has a love of airline food.

But the idea that a merger would turn AA into some kind of pseudo Spirit Airlines is just too much FT unnecessary worrying.

BF263533

Eastern Airlines was brought down by intransigent management and intransigent employees. There are probably a few senior AA & US employees around who came from Eastern. Being an Eastern frequent flyer, I watched that saga go on for years. During Eastern's last year there seemed to be good cooperation, and service was improving, but it was just too late to save Eastern.

PS - NorthCentralDC3, did you have the opportunity to fly the DC-3?

jeffhacker

Actually, they're pretty good these days. on time flights, clean airplanes. Their soft product isn't as nice as AA, but they aren't as bad as many others anymore.

Jeff

jeffhacker

Don't forget that US serves PHL-TLV.

NorthCentralDC3

Yes, my first flight as a child was on a DC3 back in late 50s that flew from Madison Wisconsin to Milwaukee Mitchell to Chicago Midway - the busiest airport in the world! I haven't been on one since the early 60s, but my wife and kids had to pull really hard to get me off of the DC3 that is on display in the AA museum in Fort Worth. I love the sound of props so I'm sure I'm an outlier, but I enjoy the occasional (short) flight on Saab 340s or ATRs - still prefer 777 going transcontinental of course

sdsearch

Ah, but the big question is: Would AAdvantage start doing GrandSlam promotions?

As I don't frequent the US forum, it seems the only time I ever run a lot into US FFs on FT is during GrandSlam, when a bunch of them barrage the forums of partners -- hotels, rental cards, etc -- trying to figure out specific ways to get "hits" from that partner.

I shudder at the thought of the much greater number of AA FFs doing the same thing if AA started doing Grand Slam yearly!

fly747first

Very sad but true. As one of my "West" crews put it, "we can't even get on the same shuttle to the hotel without fighting with the East crews, let alone agree on seniority."

fly747first

Domestically, I find US to be awful unless you get a flight with meal service. However, for long-haul travel, US actually has the best J hard product on A330-200 aircraft and the soft product definitely beats AA's.

fly747first

AA seems to choose its CEOs based on an old boys' club system. With few exemptions, AA's CEOs have all been entitled, classless, and without a strong understanding of the airline industry.