Earning and redeeming AA miles / upgrading on BA/IB; BA fuel surcharge (Oct 1, 2010)
Oct 2, 2010, 12:03 pm
#241
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did a quick search for jfk - bkk, for the first time i saw an option to fly jal and not just ba, everytime i have search in the past, i always had to connect through lhr and pay surcharge.
or maybe i just got lucky this search
or maybe i just got lucky this search
Oct 2, 2010, 12:13 pm
#242
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I think it is BA's intention to get paid the fuel surcharges from AA when before they were not receiving them
It is great for paid tickets across the atlantic since BA CW or 1st to purchase including all taxes and charges will likely be on par with AA but with, imo, a much better product but able to accrue AA points.
Dave
It is great for paid tickets across the atlantic since BA CW or 1st to purchase including all taxes and charges will likely be on par with AA but with, imo, a much better product but able to accrue AA points.
Dave
But it still sucks big time on award tickets. There is no denying of that.
Last edited by Happy; Oct 2, 2010 at 12:22 pm
Oct 2, 2010, 2:23 pm
#243
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Nice try to be a BApologist.
Almost all airlines file a YQ surcharge, which, as you point out, has for primary goal the screwing of corporate customers out of their negotiated discounts and travel agents out of their commission(*), yet very few charge the YQ surcharge on tickets paid with redemption of miles. Taking AA's program, BA is now the only exception to the rule that tickets paid with redemption of miles are exempt to the YQ surcharge.
Incidentally, corporate buyers' reaction to the YQ has been to negotiate, and obtain, bigger discount on "fare". All they care about, and are measured on, is the discount they get on the bottom line, and how they get to it is of little import.
(*) the other primary goal, to advertise and goad customers in with low "fares"--only to add the YQ on at the very end of the booking process, has thankfully been squashed, primarily through the leadership of those citizen-oriented folks at the EU.
Almost all airlines file a YQ surcharge, which, as you point out, has for primary goal the screwing of corporate customers out of their negotiated discounts and travel agents out of their commission(*), yet very few charge the YQ surcharge on tickets paid with redemption of miles. Taking AA's program, BA is now the only exception to the rule that tickets paid with redemption of miles are exempt to the YQ surcharge.
Incidentally, corporate buyers' reaction to the YQ has been to negotiate, and obtain, bigger discount on "fare". All they care about, and are measured on, is the discount they get on the bottom line, and how they get to it is of little import.
(*) the other primary goal, to advertise and goad customers in with low "fares"--only to add the YQ on at the very end of the booking process, has thankfully been squashed, primarily through the leadership of those citizen-oriented folks at the EU.
You are also correct about other carriers not charging YQ on awards. Think SAS.
YQ from awards is almost certainly considered a revenue stream by BA.
Oct 2, 2010, 3:31 pm
#244
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And, honestly, it would shock me if BA continues with their current "fuel surcharge" fare structure, as IB and AA do not use it, and the airlines are merging their trans-Atlantic operations. For only BA-operated flights to have an entirely different fare structure is just going to be a huge mess. So either BA drops the fuel surcharges (likely) or AA/IB add them (unlikely).
Keep in mind that, as mentioned by others, while there are heavy fuel surcharges on BA, BA has very low base fares, so the total paid fare comes out to be similar to competitors.
Keep in mind that, as mentioned by others, while there are heavy fuel surcharges on BA, BA has very low base fares, so the total paid fare comes out to be similar to competitors.
(Example: JFK-PLS $438 base fare received only 37 BE points, and BE Customer Service confirmed that this was due to a $35 fuel surcharge each way. I've also experienced and confirmed this for JFK-LHR in the post linked above.)
Oct 2, 2010, 3:44 pm
#245
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Almost all airlines file a YQ surcharge, which, as you point out, has for primary goal the screwing of corporate customers out of their negotiated discounts and travel agents out of their commission(*), yet very few charge the YQ surcharge on tickets paid with redemption of miles. Taking AA's program, BA is now the only exception to the rule that tickets paid with redemption of miles are exempt to the YQ surcharge.
QF charges the same YQ on award tickets as on revenue tickets.
Oct 2, 2010, 3:46 pm
#246
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Dave
Oct 2, 2010, 3:58 pm
#247
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God, this is really bad - my travel to US has been reduced significantly, and I was looking for possibility to use my e-vips on BA, expecially C-->F... Looks like this not gonna happen and I will have to swith to *A... Just a shame because I really like AA and OW.
Well, tough luck !
Well, tough luck !
Oct 2, 2010, 4:05 pm
#248
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It doesn't change the underlying business reason for airlines sticking to the YQ approach, however unpopular it is with all of us (myself included).
Oct 2, 2010, 4:09 pm
#249
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Ah, well in that case QF is presumably in the same position that BA was until yesterday - AA (rightly or wrongly) not charging the YQ which QF itself charges for awards.
It doesn't change the underlying business reason for airlines sticking to the YQ approach, however unpopular it is with all of us (myself included).
It doesn't change the underlying business reason for airlines sticking to the YQ approach, however unpopular it is with all of us (myself included).
Oct 2, 2010, 4:15 pm
#250
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They bottom line is that they simply don't charge any $$ that go to the airline, no matter how cunningly it's masqueraded and lied to the customer.
Oct 2, 2010, 4:26 pm
#251
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Oct 2, 2010, 4:29 pm
#252
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Well, that's unsurprising as US airlines must quote a cash ticket's "base fare" inclusive of the fuel surcharge. So their frequent flyer scheme members would find it hard to understand why a fuel surcharge should be separately charged on an award ticket - if, indeed, US legislation would even permit that, given that it's prohibited for cash tickets.
Lets face it, if US-based airlines could get away with this as a new revenue stream, they would. If AA's systems allow AA to charge YQ on BA awards, it most certainly can do so on AA awards as well. It just doesn't - not yet. The law is not preventing them from doing so. FWIW, US law is a lot more lenient on what can be quoted in terms of pricing... one-way fares based on RT purchase exclusive of taxes? Don't ever see that in the UK.
Oct 2, 2010, 6:22 pm
#253
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Dave
Oct 2, 2010, 6:42 pm
#254
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Actually, I believe there is something that prohibits the charging of a fuel surcharge without calculating it in the base fare rather than some largesse on the behalf of AA, which is why, iirc, when AA did have a surcharge they added it to the base fare rather than as taxes and also why QF doesn't charge their fuel fines on US domestic awards
Dave
Dave
I don't doubt that legislation exists that mandates US airlines to include YQ in base fare, just as UK law requires BA to display the all-in price of air tickets when booking online (as opposed to the one-way fare based on r/t purchase crap that goes on in the US). However, the question is whether such legislation impacts whether the airlines can charge YQ on award travel, and my thinking is no.
Oct 2, 2010, 6:59 pm
#255
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Two questions spring to mind: (1) does BA charge YQ on domestic AA awards, as they do on international AA awards? (2) does this legislation have any bearing on whether YQ can be charged on awards? My thinking is no, because AA does seem to exclude it from BusinessExtrAA earnings.
I don't doubt that legislation exists that mandates US airlines to include YQ in base fare, just as UK law requires BA to display the all-in price of air tickets when booking online (as opposed to the one-way fare based on r/t purchase crap that goes on in the US). However, the question is whether such legislation impacts whether the airlines can charge YQ on award travel, and my thinking is no.
I don't doubt that legislation exists that mandates US airlines to include YQ in base fare, just as UK law requires BA to display the all-in price of air tickets when booking online (as opposed to the one-way fare based on r/t purchase crap that goes on in the US). However, the question is whether such legislation impacts whether the airlines can charge YQ on award travel, and my thinking is no.
Dave