KD5MDK

Can you use the internationally useless PMUs on Delta to upgrade Hawaii service?

bniu

i think the only thing AA could do if they took the 763 off the route would be to sub in the 777, which is even better! I believe both DFW-HNL and ORD-HNL are too far for a 757 to fly. Maybe HNL-DFW eastbound could be accomplished on a 757 but since the westbound flight can't make it, it has to be a 763. DFW-OGG same reasoning...

Now if only AA will do a JFK-HNL route, now that would be a terrific MR opportunity, just 5 round trips and make platinum...

KD5MDK

Maybe at $.25/mile...

You're assuming AA keeps the ORD-HNL and DFW-HNL flights and doesn't push them all through LAX.

freeupgrade

AA will never drop DFW-HNL - waaaay too many top tier elites live in DFW, and would be royally ticked if this nonstop was ever dropped.

dayone

+1.

KD5MDK

Maybe they'll bring back the A300 just for that...

formeraa

brp --

Sorry for the late response. I lost track of this thread. Let me clarify -- Without adding in the value of the FF awards (but including cargo), the HNL routes are moderately unprofitable but the outer island routes are just slightly unprofitable. When we add in the "value" of the FF awards, we then decided it was "profitable" to keep the routes.

Also, you have to consider alternate uses of the aircraft from a marginal cost perspective. Perhaps the alternative is flying an additional half-full JFK-LAX roundtrip with $99 fares competing against Virgin America and JetBlue. Then, given that we are going to fly the aircraft somewhere, Hawaii is good alternative.^

And, yes, fares have increased somewhat on the Hawaii routes. However, off-peak fares are still generally well below comparable (inflation adjusted) fares in the 80's.

Bishope2

I agree with formeraa regarding fares. All airfares regardless of the market have not kept up to inflation. My first flight from PVD to RSW in 1989 was $234. I can still pay that or less now.

As for airfare to Hawaii, here is what I have approx. paid over the years per ticket:
2010: $950, 2008: $850, 2007: $750, 2004: $550, 2001: $800, 1998: $1,200, 1997: $500, 1994: $880. My inlaws went to Hawaii in 1984 for their honeymoon. They paid $880 for each ticket. I was amazed when I saw the receipt. As one can see, they are all over the place. If one uses the 1984 airfare, then counting inflation present day airfare to Hawaii should be well over $1,200 per person.

aaupgrade

True, and looking at inflation and airfare prices over the last few decades I agree the increases are long overdue. But this is looking at the situation from a business perspective. If the airline can sell revenue tkts at those prices, then more power to them.

BUT, looking at it from a purchaser's perspective the price increase from $1322 for FC BWI-HNL 4 years ago to $3100 now has far exceeded the inflation rate of the last 2 years. I usually don't compare my airfare with prices I paid in the 80s, not to mention I only purchased and flew economy back then, and not to HI, so that is not a fair comparison by any means. AND, and this is a big AND, when I can get a FC ticket on AS DCA-HNL still for $1624, there is no way I am going to pay almost double that to fly AA especially when I can still earn all my AA RDM, EQM, EQO, and elite bonuses flying AS. BTW the rates quoted above are for October - off-peak, if purchased today.

Prices shown below are what was actually paid. In between 2006 and now I have been back to HI yearly paying for Y and upgrading with SWU in 2009 and miles in 2007 and 2008 (before the copay).

FC BWI-HNL on AA
Sep 2006: $1322, Oct 2005: $1242, Mar 2005: $1208, Sep 2004: $1208

FC DCA-HNL on AS
Sep 2010: $1494

Added plus is I live much, much closer to DCA.

WRCSolberg

My memory might be a little fuzzy, but I could swear someone said several months ago that AA was starting to equip the PEDs on DFW-HNL(not sure about -OGG or the ORD routes). Was this an unsubstantiated rumor or is this not a regular occurance?

ledger

LOL. But, seriously, don't give them any ideas.

Doghound

I can tell you next Tuesday, if no one knows the answer to this.

elitetraveler

While fares are not keeping up with inflation, certain airline costs have decreased significantly - for example - commissions to travel agents. This is now passed on to consumers in fees for those who use travel agents. Again, catering expenses are way down, and the consumer (at least in Y) gets a pass along cost.

Bishope2

aaupgrade, I agree from a customers perspective, I think it is great the fares are were they are. The prices I mentioned were for travel in the months of March (2008), April (2004, 2007), May (1994, 1997, 2010) and October
(1998). Like you, I didn't count the $300 fee for using miles. If you take a $900 cost, then exclude the value of the miles, then the cash cost is $1,200Compared to AS at $1,600 I would pay the $1,600. I am highly unlikely to pay $3,200 for a F class on AA. I have seen F higher than that for travel from BOS to HNL.

WRCSolberg, yes, someone posted a while back that they received the PED's on the DFW-HNL route. Then some others posted the same thing. It was also mentioned AA was thinking about adding these to the 767 routes to HNL. Haven't heard much since. My guess is if AA hasn't changed policy regarding the PED's, they were left on by mistake. Then the FA's handed them out in error.

Understanding costs might have gone down as elitetravel mentioned, they haven't gone down that much. The product has gone down not the price. What I mean by that, less service, less room, less material things (food, blankets, pillows, etc). I recall from several years ago when AA removed meal service from coach (as well as other ailines), the meal cost was just over $8.00 per passenger. As for the ticket fee's, I believe travel agents were getting 10% on a ticket from the airlines. If the airlines stopped paying the travel agents and they removed meal service, shouldn't the ticket prices have gone down? The prices I gave were for tickets purchased via an AA phone rep. No travel agent costs.

McFlyPHL

I"m a pretty frequent Hawaii flyer, having done HNL, OGG, and LIH in the last 18 months alone. Since I carry status in multiple alliances, I've had the "pleasure" of flying UA, CO, AA, and US on these trips - all in F. While I haven't done the CO EWR or IAH runs (since they're next to impossible to get via miles or upgrades), I have done F on all of the other carriers. Hands down - AA had preferable food, better booze, and less surly service than UA and US. Not even close.

Any 763 route on AA is worlds better than UA or US, and CO's narrow body service. Not even close. US is the worst. By about as many miles as you'd redeem from an F ticket. I'd say UA's high density widebody and AA's 757's are about equal. CO's narrowbody is probably great for some - I'm just not a big fan of CO's seats.

Add in that you could (theoretically) use your EXP domestic upgrades on AA (which you can't on CO or US... I think you can on UA) plus the ability to confirm instantly with a VIP on AA and AA's a clear winner. I'm not sure that a PED with a bunch of movies I really don't want to see anyway is worth. Especially when I have my laptop.