ashill

Well, DL (with hubs and the ability to feed long haul flights on both ends in addition to the local traffic) has tried premium service on SEA-JFK, and it's come and gone a few times even with their advantages. (I wasn't paying close enough to know the status of it as of pre-COVID 2020.) The fact that that's AS's best (really, least bad) opportunity for a premium transcon product is a good indication of why AS management has shown very little interest in the idea.

Yeah. And beyond the (sensibly) cautious management, there is an enormous difference between AS and B6: B6's home base is the one city in the US which has consistently supported premium domestic products. AS's home base is not.

I think this horse is pretty thoroughly dead. Enjoy the holiday.

jinglish

As I see it, the only way AS starts running lie-flats to JFK is if they decide to buy whatever 757 replacement Boeing cooks over the next couple of years; use it to launch routes like PDX-HND, SEA-HEL, and FT Armchair CEO favorite ANC-NRT now that's they're big boys in OneWorld; and decide to throw some transcons in for the sake of fleet utilization only.

...which is not a scenario I would put money on happening. Even just the first two parts.

Eastbay1K

... and the horse is being served, in some sort of fancy sauce on Air France, in a lie-flat seat. So you see, never going to be an issue on AS. In fact, AS is more likely to serve you reindeer in the main cabin then to serve you anything in a lie flat seat.

Flying for Fun

After a divert, LAX-LAX-SJO, AS served a choice of sandwhiches to everyone in Main so some poor man's AS business class lie-flats did indeed get served!

James

eponymous_coward

On that note, B6 is doing such an amazing job on SEA-JFK they're suspending it over the winter doldrums, amazing, incredible, wonderful, blow AS's pants off Mint product and all.

It's almost like there aren't huge premium transcon markets outside of NYC-SFO/LAX to make a bjillion dollars on or something.

OhDoctor

it's almost like there's some kind of global pandemic decimating the airline industry. no but it's definitely just about the route and the superiority of AS's weak sauce hard product

AS Flyer

They aren't cancelling JFK-LAX or JFK-SFO... AS isn't cancelling SEA-JFK. If it was making money for JetBlue, or even a loss leader but an important route to them, I'd imagine they'd keep it.

I'm just still surprised this thread is dragging on and on and on.... The horse is so dead. It's got so many lives it's practically a cat.

Eastbay1K

chrisl137

LAX is the busiest O/D airport in the world, supporting a population larger than most states, and there's never been enough of a market for transcon LAX-(eastcoast-but-not-NYC) to support multiple competitive premium products to anywhere but NYC. Airlines toy with doing it to BOS, but the BOS market is too small for everybody to be doing it. There's mint, and DL is doing it, but UA has only danced around the edges of it on and off, even when adding BOS as a "focus city". If you can't get enough people to/from LAX to buy it, anyplace else is likely to be tougher.

Even when UA was at its peak in at LAX and there were practically LAX-IAD/IAD-LAX flights every hour, even if some aircraft had lie-flats, you couldn't count on there not being an equipment swap. The frequency was there so you could finish what you were doing at either end and get home fast, or get there at the time you needed, not spend a bunch of time on the ground waiting for a plane with a lie-flat.

Eastbay1K

The main reason LAX / NYC had the product is because of the studio contracts. I'd expect that SFO historically has been a better market for the premium product. UA, at its pre-CO peak, had multiple heavies flying to the hubs, and even some to non-hubs. Sure, the planes typically flew onward to an international destination, but I don't think these flights were money losing operations. Even BOS had 3 cabin 767 frequencies for quite some time.

But the economics of all this has changed. Fares were really high - SFO/BOS in Y, absent some great sale, could be $600+. Premium cabin fares were sky high, and upgrades weren't automatic. For most if not all airlines, you needed to use the complimentary coupon type of upgrade, and when you ran out, you had to buy more. When an airline now can run a flight with 2 in the cockpit, and 4 in the cabin for up to 200 people (the 739s, the 321s), and can't jam that many more on a 767 with a decent premium cabin, you do the math.

jsguyrus

Maybe we could have a special sub fleet of the Q400 just like AA has of the 32T? The Q400T with 16 flatbeds and lots of propeller noise to lull you to sleep!

sfozrhfco

AS could also buy a hotel to offer lie flats on the ground--or perhaps sell mattresses giving Mileplan bonus miles for those that simply have to have a bed.

Repooc17

This has been the case for UA even during the pandemic. UA has been flying multiple widebodies between EWR and LAX/SFO daily, especially during the holidays. Heck, for much of December and into next month, UA is running two redeye flights from SFO to EWR, both widebodies, with scheduled departures within the hour from each other. From my perspective, UA is the lone carrier running a decent frequency of cross country nonstop flight schedule, right now I think at least 4 daily flights each between EWR/LAX and EWR/SFO. UA has the network to utilize these widebodies onward to international destinations without (many of) them sitting on the ground - e.g. SYD/AKL, ICN/PVG, NRT, GRU, even if mostly just as cargo operations.

WrightHI

Kidding aside, I find AS first to the west coast, sleeping in a bed, and then going on in the morning to be a perfectly decent way to get from Hawaii to the east coast. I leave a bit earlier but arrive in time for dinner and in shape to enjoy it.

OhDoctor

that can work, but those extra ~12 hours are a luxury, particularly if your travel window is measured in a few days,