[Speculation] Possibility of Lie-Flat Seats on Transcon Routes?
#151
Join Date: May 2012
Location: HNL
Programs: AS MVPG, HA Plat
Posts: 1,268
In theory, yes, and sometimes the long red eye in a lie flat seat is a better choice. But I’ve found that in practice, leaving mid-day doesn’t usually cost me more useful time than leaving in late afternoon or evening, nor does arriving toward dinner time rather than late morning or early afternoon. YMMV (and mine sometimes does too — I’m happy to have the AA option back).
#152
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,397
Also... someone is gonna bring this up, surely:
https://leehamnews.com/2020/12/29/ho...-path-forward/
I'm still going with this though:
AS doesn't want an A321 premium transcon subfleet, even if they could realistically have one by converting the A320neo order to A321neos, because:
- They can get 737Max planes for a song because Boeing is in deep guacamole.
- A321neos, not so much, because Airbus didn't just go through having their planes fall out of the sky because the manufacturer screwed up.
- AS would incur significant expense in converting/equipping them to a Mint-esque configuration.
- AS would go from flying a plane with a 16F/24 Y+/150 Y (that's 190 pax for you following at home) config to something more like 16 F/24 Y+/119 Y (same seating capacity as a B6 Mint plane, 159- so 41 less pax), and, as has been repeatedly stated... AS's markets don't support premium transcon like B6's do, with the exceptions of SFO/LAX-NYC (which is an extremely important, relevant market for SFO and LAX, but compare and contrast with SEA, SJC or SAN- if you need help noticing the difference between the first two and the next three, it's a city that rhymes with "Blue Pork").
- They actually seem to like the A321neo for what it is right now, a way to shoehorn more passengers into various airports in a cost efficient way, like DCA or KOA. Much like how B6 actually has a non-Mint A321neo fleet (that plane seats 190 pax, btw- it's almost like B6 knows there are markets where an A321 that doesn't have Mint makes sense).
- That's probably not enough to get them to buy 30 more though. Not when Boeing is selling MAX planes for cheap, and AS doesn't have THAT many places where the A321neo is a Goldilocks plane.
Last edited by eponymous_coward; Dec 30, 2020 at 12:28 am
#153
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Over the Bay Bridge, CA
Programs: Jumbo mas
Posts: 38,654
This has been the case for UA even during the pandemic. UA has been flying multiple widebodies between EWR and LAX/SFO daily, especially during the holidays. Heck, for much of December and into next month, UA is running two redeye flights from SFO to EWR, both widebodies, with scheduled departures within the hour from each other. From my perspective, UA is the lone carrier running a decent frequency of cross country nonstop flight schedule, right now I think at least 4 daily flights each between EWR/LAX and EWR/SFO. UA has the network to utilize these widebodies onward to international destinations without (many of) them sitting on the ground - e.g. SYD/AKL, ICN/PVG, NRT, GRU, even if mostly just as cargo operations.
Dead cat horse or not, AS isn't going to have a subfleet for a few routes. It already has the best "non premium" F cabin pitch. Three of its hubs can't support the product, guaranteed (ANC/SEA/PDX).
When the price is right, I'll fly the competition in the lie flat. But if the price is right for me to do that, it probably isn't a price that is earning the airline much, if any, money.
Ok, at least 8.75 lives gone. Cat horse, RIP soon.
#154
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 12,598
And both their old and new F recliners are more comfortable than the old UA ones. I haven't flown UA F in a couple years so I don't know if they have any F seat updates.
#155
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: JFK / LGA.. EWR is not part of NYC!
Programs: Brand loyalty is for suckers
Posts: 1,048
as it turns out, i was prompted to revive the horse by my upcoming SEA-JFK on AS in F being more expensive than B6 in mint. which struck me rather like ordering a sandwich at a deli, then paying a premium for them to step on it first before serving it to me.
#157
Join Date: Dec 2008
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 669
I had the same experience with Delta One for my flight yesterday. A flatbed on a transcon was so nice. Even though the food was nonexistent I would still choose it over Alaska because of how comfortable it was.
#158
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: YYF/YLW
Programs: AA, DL, AS, VA, WS Silver
Posts: 5,951
I’m not saying you should pay that premium; fairly obviously, Mint matters to you and you shouldn’t. But that’s not a reason for AS to install a Mint competitor, since it seems the market doesn’t share your approach.
#159
Join Date: Apr 2017
Programs: AS 100k, DL PM, New Sagaya
Posts: 1,292
One other thing to keep in mind is the use of a premium cabin to drive revenue versus to drive loyalty. Alaska has shared in briefings that F upgrades are managed to encourage loyal travelers to roll the dice on upgrades versus using F to attract high revenue passengers. This of course differs from wide body options where the premium cabins might be all the money an airline is making. For AS the revenue is in Main and we keep booking for work or personal travel hoping for a goodie. The Mint example above being cheaper is probably more AS having decided that seat is worth more for loyalty unless some one really wants to shell out for it.
RIP cat horse.
RIP cat horse.
#160
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: SEA, NW/DL 1.6Million Miler
Programs: DL 1MM Annual Silver,AS 100K 22-24, AS 75K 15-21
Posts: 4,278
Comfort&Price vs. Frequency: Jetblue Problem
I recognize that B6 is the airline that has pushed the envelope for lie-flat transcon at an affordable price, however, one huge caveat, is dismal flight frequency of twice weekly in January 2021 from SEA; just Sunday and Thursday only. There are NO flights any other day of the week, in/out of SEA or PDX to JFK. One added frequency in February, and more added in March. Of course B6 continues to have daily flights from California. AS, however, has daily service from SEA, but reduced frequency 4X weekly from SFO in Jan.
Should B6 flight cancellation occur for your January flights to PDX or SEA, you likely need to wait a few days for the next flight. AS on the other hand, will have options of different routing or partner flight.
Jiburi
Should B6 flight cancellation occur for your January flights to PDX or SEA, you likely need to wait a few days for the next flight. AS on the other hand, will have options of different routing or partner flight.
Jiburi
Last edited by jiburi; Dec 31, 2020 at 4:54 am