Flight Cancellation: 6 months for refund - is it legal?
Apr 24, 2020, 11:37 am
#1
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 661
Flight Cancellation: 6 months for refund - is it legal?
I booked a flight to Europe through Ovago on NZ. Now that flight is cancelled. I have not approached Ovago about the cancellation as it was just officially announced by the airline today. The flight is in late August so I will just wait. However Ovago's policy is stating that refunds take 6 months to process.
https://ovago.com/exchange-refund-request
Text: In case of refunds, currently, these take up to 6 months to be processed, if granted.
My question - per DOT guidelines I thought refunds have to be processed within 7 days. Given the current situation I wouldn't mind waiting upto 6 weeks for a refund but 6 months sounds ridiculous to process a refund. What are the legal responsibilities here?
https://ovago.com/exchange-refund-request
Text: In case of refunds, currently, these take up to 6 months to be processed, if granted.
My question - per DOT guidelines I thought refunds have to be processed within 7 days. Given the current situation I wouldn't mind waiting upto 6 weeks for a refund but 6 months sounds ridiculous to process a refund. What are the legal responsibilities here?
Apr 24, 2020, 2:35 pm
#2
Join Date: Feb 2007
Programs: NZ Koru
Posts: 6,411
As you booked via an OTA there policy trump anything the airlines say, they are the owner of the booking.
NZ will refund the OTA inline with what is currently required of them legally, then it’s up to the OTA to refund you.
NZ will refund the OTA inline with what is currently required of them legally, then it’s up to the OTA to refund you.
Apr 25, 2020, 9:56 am
#4
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 661
The text here is "owed a refund"... if the airline has issued a refund then the passenger is "owed a refund". Hence, the text quoted below applies - if the passenger is "owed a refund" the OTA must process it within 7 days.
https://www.transportation.gov/indiv...ection/refunds
How quickly is an airline, travel agent, or online travel agency required to process a refund?
- If a passenger is owed a refund, an airline, travel agent, or online travel agency must process it within seven business days if the passenger paid by credit card, and 20 business days if the passenger paid by cash or check.
Apr 25, 2020, 10:02 am
#5
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 661
While the DOT may not be able to help I will file a lawsuit to get 100% of my money back because I do not think the OTA can operate this way. This does not happen in any other industry. If I buy something from an online retailer and do not get the product for whatever reason I most definitely get my money back.
Apr 25, 2020, 11:04 am
#6
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On the DOT site it has this text so it does look like DOT has something to say on this matter. The way I am interpreting it, if the airline has issued a refund then the OTA has to issue that same refund to the consumer within 7 days. If the airline has NOT issued a refund then the OTA DOES NOT have an obligation to grant a refund to the consumer meaning that the refund regulation is toward the airline and not the OTA independently. However, I do not think the OTA can just keep the money if the airline has infact issued the refund.
The text here is "owed a refund"... if the airline has issued a refund then the passenger is "owed a refund". Hence, the text quoted below applies - if the passenger is "owed a refund" the OTA must process it within 7 days.
https://www.transportation.gov/indiv...ection/refunds
How quickly is an airline, travel agent, or online travel agency required to process a refund?
The text here is "owed a refund"... if the airline has issued a refund then the passenger is "owed a refund". Hence, the text quoted below applies - if the passenger is "owed a refund" the OTA must process it within 7 days.
https://www.transportation.gov/indiv...ection/refunds
How quickly is an airline, travel agent, or online travel agency required to process a refund?
- If a passenger is owed a refund, an airline, travel agent, or online travel agency must process it within seven business days if the passenger paid by credit card, and 20 business days if the passenger paid by cash or check.
Both the Rule and the Warning Letter which not only explains the Rule but also includes other authorities, make it very clear that if the flight is cancelled, the refund is owed. That might be by the carrier or a TA, but it is one. I would make a request for a refund to both, let 7 days pass and hope that a refund has been initiated. If not, on the 8th day, initiate a chargeback. Include the e-ticket receipt, the notice of cancellation, request for refund and either denial or a note that nothing has been received.
Your card issuer will process the chargeback against the vendor who sold you the ticket. That might be the OTA or the carrier, all depending on their internal business arrangements, but not your concern.
I would not make these things harder than they are. Simply follow the steps correctly, keep copies and screenshots of everything and your bank account and blood pressure will both be better off.
Apr 25, 2020, 2:48 pm
#7
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 661
chargebacks can be sent to collections and it can ruin your credit - chargebacks have no legal basis, i.e. it's just the credit card company agreeing with you. However a legal judgement cannot be disputed and even if somehow it gets to your credit report it can be immediately removed with evidence of the judgement.
Apr 25, 2020, 3:59 pm
#8
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 48
chargebacks can be sent to collections and it can ruin your credit - chargebacks have no legal basis, i.e. it's just the credit card company agreeing with you. However a legal judgement cannot be disputed and even if somehow it gets to your credit report it can be immediately removed with evidence of the judgement.
Apr 25, 2020, 4:10 pm
#9
Join Date: Apr 2013
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Much of the discussion around chargebacks here only applies to the US and not NZ.
I know for a fact that even last as late as of a week ago in NZ there was zero chance of having a chargeback processed for a flight because the banks and credit card companies would simply not accept these. I can't provide any update as to whether anything has changed here recently. Anybody who attempted a chargeback would have also been stung with the processing fee for this being declined.
I know for a fact that even last as late as of a week ago in NZ there was zero chance of having a chargeback processed for a flight because the banks and credit card companies would simply not accept these. I can't provide any update as to whether anything has changed here recently. Anybody who attempted a chargeback would have also been stung with the processing fee for this being declined.
Apr 25, 2020, 4:17 pm
#10
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: New Zealand (when I'm home!)
Programs: Air NZ Elite
Posts: 1,218
I misread the post 
My bad!
Airlines are processing refunds as fast as they can.
But third party sites? I don't trust them at the best of times, so I don't trust them at the worst of times, to be getting the refunds out.
My bad!
Airlines are processing refunds as fast as they can.
But third party sites? I don't trust them at the best of times, so I don't trust them at the worst of times, to be getting the refunds out.
Last edited by kiwifrequentflyer; Apr 26, 2020 at 2:42 am
Apr 25, 2020, 11:36 pm
#11
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Posts: 661
Regarding the collections question - there have been cases where a customer does a chargeback, the merchant then sends the amount to a collection agency to try to get the amount owed to them. This is reported as a "collection account" on a person's credit report.
You are shocked that people are upset that they are not getting money that is legally owed to them?
Are you are under the assumption that this CoVid19 situation is only affecting airlines and not passengers? Covid19 is affected everyone in a terrible way, this situation isn't something unique to NZ. In these times many people cannot be generous to donate their money to the "NZ survival fund" and for NZ to try to surreptitiously take the money by playing games is nothing short of egregious.
I do not think anyone is expecting instant refunds. The issue is the lack of transparency and the games that are being played to keep money that clearly is due to the passenger. If they cannot meet their obligations then there is a bankruptcy process for it. They cannot try to save their company by the theft of people's ticket money. Laws exist for a reason and unless the government creates a different set of laws the existing ones apply and need to be followed.
Getting back to the thread - the question was about taking 6 months to refund which is pretty ludicrous regardless of any type of situation. People ARE being patient here, as patient as they can be but the Airlines and Travel Agents are taking huge advantage of that.
Are you are under the assumption that this CoVid19 situation is only affecting airlines and not passengers? Covid19 is affected everyone in a terrible way, this situation isn't something unique to NZ. In these times many people cannot be generous to donate their money to the "NZ survival fund" and for NZ to try to surreptitiously take the money by playing games is nothing short of egregious.
I do not think anyone is expecting instant refunds. The issue is the lack of transparency and the games that are being played to keep money that clearly is due to the passenger. If they cannot meet their obligations then there is a bankruptcy process for it. They cannot try to save their company by the theft of people's ticket money. Laws exist for a reason and unless the government creates a different set of laws the existing ones apply and need to be followed.
Getting back to the thread - the question was about taking 6 months to refund which is pretty ludicrous regardless of any type of situation. People ARE being patient here, as patient as they can be but the Airlines and Travel Agents are taking huge advantage of that.
Apr 26, 2020, 12:46 am
#12
Join Date: Nov 2017
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EDIT: I'm sorry: I completely misread the post this isn't about Air NZ, it's about Ovago.
Airlines are trying to process refunds as fast as they can, none of them have the capacity right now to meet the current guidelines for laws like DOT though which is why there are significant delays to say the least for refunds (https://www.independent.co.uk/travel...-a9482336.html)
I have zero idea about the third party travel agencies. They have done many shady things in the past, so I don't trust them with a ten-foot-poll.
this isn't about Air NZ, it's about Ovago.Airlines are trying to process refunds as fast as they can, none of them have the capacity right now to meet the current guidelines for laws like DOT though which is why there are significant delays to say the least for refunds (https://www.independent.co.uk/travel...-a9482336.html)
I have zero idea about the third party travel agencies. They have done many shady things in the past, so I don't trust them with a ten-foot-poll.
Last edited by kiwifrequentflyer; Apr 26, 2020 at 2:07 am
Apr 26, 2020, 1:26 am
#13
Join Date: Apr 2017
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I am shocked & amazed that people think with a single press of a button, airlines can process 10,000x the number of refunds & cancellations they normally deal with in a month.
Patient? I would not call this patient at all. It is perfectly reasonable to expect it could take 6 months to get a refund because each of these need to be manually refunded. Have you ever refunded a charge before? Have you ever actually done the physical act of doing that? Because it actually takes literal time. Literal time which under normal circumstances is fine, because it takes perhaps 1 minute to do, but when you times that by 10,000 suddenly it literally takes months to work through the backlog. Just do the maths about how many they can feasibly go through in a day.
Just because an old law created before a pandemicexists doesn't mean it's logistically feasible to follow it right now. People aren't capable of magic. Airlines aren't Genies. Yet people think they should be.
Which is why, as I said, we're already seen laws & rules changing. Hard fast chargeback rules have been massively changed & adapted for impacted industries. Why? because the old rules are simply ridiculous under the current circumstances.
Why you equate my post with "donating money" to Air NZ, when I was flat out addressing the issue of is 6 months reasonable for processing insane amounts of refunds, I have no clue, because I was not suggesting that at all. My point, is that 6 months for some customers, is not at all shocking, once you start actually doing the time maths.
Patient? I would not call this patient at all. It is perfectly reasonable to expect it could take 6 months to get a refund because each of these need to be manually refunded. Have you ever refunded a charge before? Have you ever actually done the physical act of doing that? Because it actually takes literal time. Literal time which under normal circumstances is fine, because it takes perhaps 1 minute to do, but when you times that by 10,000 suddenly it literally takes months to work through the backlog. Just do the maths about how many they can feasibly go through in a day.
Just because an old law created before a pandemicexists doesn't mean it's logistically feasible to follow it right now. People aren't capable of magic. Airlines aren't Genies. Yet people think they should be.
Which is why, as I said, we're already seen laws & rules changing. Hard fast chargeback rules have been massively changed & adapted for impacted industries. Why? because the old rules are simply ridiculous under the current circumstances.
Why you equate my post with "donating money" to Air NZ, when I was flat out addressing the issue of is 6 months reasonable for processing insane amounts of refunds, I have no clue, because I was not suggesting that at all. My point, is that 6 months for some customers, is not at all shocking, once you start actually doing the time maths.
Apr 26, 2020, 1:37 am
#14
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: New Zealand (when I'm home!)
Programs: Air NZ Elite
Posts: 1,218
EDIT: Ah. This isn't about Air NZ, it is a third party booking site. My bad
As I mentioned in my updated edit: I don't in anyway trust third party booking sites.
Airlines are legitimately struggling & finding it impossible to refund customers within DOT orders & due to sheer amount of time involved & unprecedented amount of flights... it's literally impossible right now (https://www.independent.co.uk/travel...-a9482336.html)
But third party booking sites have screwed people over at the best of times, so...
As I mentioned in my updated edit: I don't in anyway trust third party booking sites.
Airlines are legitimately struggling & finding it impossible to refund customers within DOT orders & due to sheer amount of time involved & unprecedented amount of flights... it's literally impossible right now (https://www.independent.co.uk/travel...-a9482336.html)
But third party booking sites have screwed people over at the best of times, so...
Last edited by kiwifrequentflyer; Apr 26, 2020 at 2:08 am
Apr 26, 2020, 7:04 pm
#15
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 27
So 1 minute per refund that is say 60 per hour, 10000 means 167 hours, equates to 4 weeks.
So not months and even triple time is only 12 weeks for one person.
If 100000 then about 40 weeks up to 120 weeks, but again only 1 person.
Use 10 people all over in 12 weeks max.
So not months and even triple time is only 12 weeks for one person.
If 100000 then about 40 weeks up to 120 weeks, but again only 1 person.
Use 10 people all over in 12 weeks max.
