Nov 6, 2017, 3:33 am
Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).This is only applicable in the first year.
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
Upcoming changes to Flying Blue in 2018
Nov 6, 2017, 8:48 am
#211
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Switzerland
Programs: AFKL Flying Blue Platinum Ultimate, Marriott Bonvoy Ambassador Elite
Posts: 369
Since they changed the whole program... I thought it wasn't obvious.
Well I've done a fast calculation of the XP I would have got with my flight pattern last year and it goes well beyond 300 (and since I would start from Platinum, that's what matters for me...)
That's not too bad, it means I won't have to change my plans too much for next year.
Nov 6, 2017, 8:48 am
#212
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,739
It probably also doesn't help that the FB Amex has such limited geographic coverage.
And given that the geographic restrictions on French- and Monagesque- residents has (apparently) been lifted, the reason for having these "helpers" for French residents is not as urgent. (Of course, the Dutch benefitted from having the lower thresholds, AND having access to the FB Amex).
That said, residents of other countries had the "advantage" of increased level segment earning - they would always have to connect via AMS or PAR and therefore tended to have "double" the segments that a local (PAR-based, or NL-based) FB member would have - but now that "trick" is less of a deal (unless you are travelling at the front of the plane, of course! But then, if you travel at the front of the plane habitually, status is less of an issue, as you get most of the perks anyway from the ticket).
So, all in all - whether you used the FB Amex to get status faster, or whether you were a segment runner, it gets harder to gain status.
And given that the geographic restrictions on French- and Monagesque- residents has (apparently) been lifted, the reason for having these "helpers" for French residents is not as urgent. (Of course, the Dutch benefitted from having the lower thresholds, AND having access to the FB Amex).
That said, residents of other countries had the "advantage" of increased level segment earning - they would always have to connect via AMS or PAR and therefore tended to have "double" the segments that a local (PAR-based, or NL-based) FB member would have - but now that "trick" is less of a deal (unless you are travelling at the front of the plane, of course! But then, if you travel at the front of the plane habitually, status is less of an issue, as you get most of the perks anyway from the ticket).
So, all in all - whether you used the FB Amex to get status faster, or whether you were a segment runner, it gets harder to gain status.
Nov 6, 2017, 8:50 am
#213
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,739
Well I've done a fast calculation of the XP I would have got with my flight pattern last year and it goes well beyond 300 (and since I would start from Platinum, that's what matters for me...)
That's not too bad, it means I won't have to change my plans too much for next year.
That's not too bad, it means I won't have to change my plans too much for next year.
The big change here is that it makes it harder to acquire status.
(My gut feel is that either FB will have to realise they mucked up, and NOT reset XPs upon status attainment; or else they will have to run status matches to acquire "new" flyers. I am not fully convinced that they realise how much more difficult they have made gaining status, and therefore making the programme even less attractive for newcomers than it was in its old guise).
Nov 6, 2017, 8:53 am
#214
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,057
I don't agree that it's harder to acquire status, it's only harder to acquire multiple tiers in one sweep.
Going from Silver to Gold or from Gold to Platinum is the same as maintaining Gold or Platinum respectively.
It's only going from Ivory to Gold or Silver to Platinum (and well of course Ivory to Platinum) that's much harder.
Going from Silver to Gold or from Gold to Platinum is the same as maintaining Gold or Platinum respectively.
It's only going from Ivory to Gold or Silver to Platinum (and well of course Ivory to Platinum) that's much harder.
Nov 6, 2017, 8:56 am
#215
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: CPT,AMS
Posts: 4,412
So, you won't get that extra helping hand if you are trying to "race" up levels quickly [unless, perhaps, you sign up for the Silver card first, then go up a level, then sign up for Gold, etc etc - though the "bonus" is probably added at the end of the year rather than at the start....]
Nov 6, 2017, 8:59 am
#216
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,739
I don't agree that it's harder to acquire status, it's only harder to acquire multiple tiers in one sweep.
Going from Silver to Gold or from Gold to Platinum is the same as maintaining Gold or Platinum respectively.
It's only going from Ivory to Gold or Silver to Platinum (and well of course Ivory to Platinum) that's much harder.
Going from Silver to Gold or from Gold to Platinum is the same as maintaining Gold or Platinum respectively.
It's only going from Ivory to Gold or Silver to Platinum (and well of course Ivory to Platinum) that's much harder.
I know that when I first got to Gold, it was in a single year, using the 30 segments, and not having had 15 segments taken away when I passed through Silver en-route to Gold, as would happen now for someone going from Ivory to Gold!!!
(Any Platinum members here? Strawpoll: how long did it take you to initially get to Platinum? Did you take a full 3 years to go Ivory->Silver; wait till the next calendar year, go Silver->Gold; wait til the next calendar year, go Gold->Platinum, i.e. taking the maximum amount of time (and hence doing the maximum amount of flying necessary) in order to go up in status each step??? or did you do it faster?)
Under the new scheme, no such shortcut will be available. To anyone!
Last edited by irishguy28; Nov 6, 2017 at 9:04 am
Nov 6, 2017, 9:02 am
#217
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: DUS/AMS/HAM
Programs: HH-D / IHG-Sp / Marriott-P / LH-SEN / BA-S
Posts: 215
As of PE: I think only DL has domestic PE. CZ has PE, too but I don't know whether it's booked on separate booking class or not. KL has something called 'Economy Comfort' but that's not separate booking class, it's just Eco with 4" extra leg room.
Nov 6, 2017, 9:02 am
#218
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: CPT,AMS
Posts: 4,412
I actually did it step by step, first had Silver for 2 years, then Gold for 2 and now Platinum 
But given that I re-qualified for Platinum with over 70K miles this year (even excluding roll-over miles), it didn't necessarily had to be that way.
But given that I re-qualified for Platinum with over 70K miles this year (even excluding roll-over miles), it didn't necessarily had to be that way.
Nov 6, 2017, 9:03 am
#219
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: MME (midway between NCL and LBA)
Programs: BA Gold, AF/KL Gold, Hilton Gold, Nordic Choice Gold
Posts: 743
Nov 6, 2017, 9:05 am
#220
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: DUS/AMS/HAM
Programs: HH-D / IHG-Sp / Marriott-P / LH-SEN / BA-S
Posts: 215
It probably also doesn't help that the FB Amex has such limited geographic coverage.
And given that the geographic restrictions on French- and Monagesque- residents has (apparently) been lifted, the reason for having these "helpers" for French residents is not as urgent. (Of course, the Dutch benefitted from having the lower thresholds, AND having access to the FB Amex).
And given that the geographic restrictions on French- and Monagesque- residents has (apparently) been lifted, the reason for having these "helpers" for French residents is not as urgent. (Of course, the Dutch benefitted from having the lower thresholds, AND having access to the FB Amex).
Nov 6, 2017, 9:05 am
#221
Join Date: Oct 2016
Programs: FB Gold, BA Silver, HH Diamond, IHG Spire Ambassador, Marriott Plat Premier
Posts: 71
True, but in the "old" scheme, I would guess that the majority went up more than one status level in their membership year, and therefore benefitted from some degree of "shortcut".
I know that when I got to Gold, it was always in a single year, using the 30 segments, and not having my 15 segments taken away when I passed through Silver en-route to Gold!!!
(Any Platinum members here? Strawpoll: how long did it take you to initially get to Platinum? Did you take a full 3 years to go Ivory->Silver->Gold->Platinum??? or did you do it faster?)
Under the new scheme, no such shortcut will be available. To anyone!
I know that when I got to Gold, it was always in a single year, using the 30 segments, and not having my 15 segments taken away when I passed through Silver en-route to Gold!!!
(Any Platinum members here? Strawpoll: how long did it take you to initially get to Platinum? Did you take a full 3 years to go Ivory->Silver->Gold->Platinum??? or did you do it faster?)
Under the new scheme, no such shortcut will be available. To anyone!
Under the new scheme would that take 180XP or 280XP?
If it is the latter then yes getting from Ivory->Platinum would be some effort.
Nov 6, 2017, 9:08 am
#222
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,057
True, but in the "old" scheme, I would guess that the majority went up more than one status level in their membership year, and therefore benefitted from some degree of "shortcut".
I know that when I first got to Gold, it was in a single year, using the 30 segments, and not having had 15 segments taken away when I passed through Silver en-route to Gold, as would happen now for someone going from Ivory to Gold!!!
Under the new scheme, no such shortcut will be available. To anyone!
I know that when I first got to Gold, it was in a single year, using the 30 segments, and not having had 15 segments taken away when I passed through Silver en-route to Gold, as would happen now for someone going from Ivory to Gold!!!
Under the new scheme, no such shortcut will be available. To anyone!
Nov 6, 2017, 9:09 am
#223
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,739
So, to earn Gold from Ivory, you need to put together 280XP. Yes, you can take as long as 2 years to do this, but - unlike in the old scheme - if you do a huge spurt of flying, you cannot double-count the earlier flights.
Last edited by irishguy28; Nov 6, 2017 at 9:32 am Reason: correction: Ivory-> Silver is of course "only" 100XP, which are then lost and can't help gain Gold
Nov 6, 2017, 9:10 am
#224
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: mostly not far from AMS, otherwise NUE
Programs: FB Silver, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,381
It's a good reason to give AMEX a call, tell them you're considering to cancel, then get the retention offer (usually a few thousand miles) and then cancel the card after all a while later.
Nov 6, 2017, 9:10 am
#225
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,739
And besides, I was more thinking about our North American friends, for whom earning looks paltry, and for whom an FB Amex is not likely to be achievable even via that work around.
(Maybe FB will "extend" the FB Amex to other territories, but I doubt that Delta would like that if there was a US card!)