Falco Peregrinus

AF canceled a bunch of flights in the 11 pm - midnight departure slot but they are actually rescheduling them in the early hours of November 18th: ^

• November 17th: AF278 CDG-NRT (canceled) "replaced" by AF278 (Nov. 18th) at 1:45 am
  
• November 17th: AF256 CDG-SIN (canceled) "replaced" by AF256 (Nov. 18th) at 1:50 am
  
• November 17th: AF990 CDG-JNB (canceled) "replaced" by AF990 (Nov. 18th) at 1:50 am

andre1970

Thank Goodness!
Technically, 2 minutes after midnight!
Welcome to Flyertalk patsylady! ^
Well, a FA strike is in the works but it is yet to be confirmed. Back-up plans? You are a FTer, you should always have back-up plans. Especially with AF!
According to "Le Monde" (website, french only) 77% of today's long-haul flights out of CDG are assured. So there are some pretty good chances that a person flying into CDG won't be affected.
My friend is in her early thirties. Since I don't think that at the age of 30 there is some kind of a "structural break" Re: preferences I'm afraid I have to conclude -at the risk of being chastised by our mod JOUY31- that your son seems to be a victim of some sort of Catalan neo-jingoism!

brunos

Dear Stimpy: I find many of your comments full of common sense and pointed observations. Indeed all airlines have engaged in cost-cutting and the quality of food served on short/medium haul has gone down. Indeed all airlines tend to accomodate their "returning" pilots in style (separate quarters with bunks, or F or C seats). Indeed all forums show various levels of discontent from several posters with every single airline. Given the large number of airline employees and subcontractors that are in contact with stressed customers around the world, and the great many types of incidents that can occur, it is not surprising that some employees provide unsatisfactory service because their training for that specific situation is lacking, they are just very tired, or many other reasons..

But I object to your pervasive theme that all airlines are basically equal. Some are better, some are worse and the dispersion is large. The difference could be more pronounced on some aspects than others, but IMO there are very significant differences. We all had some bad experience on some aspects with all airlines, but that does not mean the quality of the "average" experience is the same. I have complained to CX because some of their staff at outstations were below par, but I am usually relaxed when I fly CX because I know the kind of experience I will get (98%) of the time). Same with BA at 95%. There might be some disagreement, but no sane person could enjoy the charter-like Y seating on the 777 compared to most other EU airlines. I now that there is one vocal dissenter on this forum, but most find the new BA NCW seat on upper deck far superior to the new AF lie-flat, and their T5 lounges clearly superior to the AF lounges in CDG, etc...
But my point is not to argue on details, but rather on the general picture that there are vast (average) quality differences among airlines, even within EU (or among US airlines such as CO & UA, or among Asian airlines).

stimpy

Well clearly the top 3 markets, US, Europe and Asia have vast differences. Within each market there are also some differences, but I believe that within Europe that most of the top carriers are very close to being the same. I also believe, strongly, that a cartel exists in Europe between BA, LH, AF/KL, SK and perhaps others to fix prices and policies. Brussels did find a cartel for cargo pricing amongst these airlines, but for some mysterious reason stopped at cargo and won't investigate the rest of it. In any case, that cartel forces a lot of similarity amongst these airlines.

Yes we can always find some differences. BA's new T5 does have wonderful lounges, but LHR was also a place to avoid for a large portion of 2008. In fact between the LHR fiasco and the LH strike, CDG and AMS were probably the best EU hub airports of 2008! Airport improvements happen one by one and labor situations happen one by one. That's why I keep status in all 3 alliances. There is always a new reason to switch from one airline to another.

San Gottardo

Point taken on KL, I wasn't aware that they are as bad when it comes to looking after themselves first. BA, well, it doesn't concur with my observations. The fact of BA being less strike-prone for minor changes in work environment supports my point (which does not necessarily mean that I consider the current labour dispute at AF a "minor reason", I am making that statement in a more generalist sense. We all know that AF staff go on strike much more often and often for ridiculous details). Same could be said of LH, LX, OS, SK, AY, TP.... They go on strike as well, but much less often, only for major things, and only after other means of resolving the differences have been exhausted. AF, along with AZ and OA, is one of the most "strikiest" airlines in the industry in Europe.

As for food, I won't respond as the discussion of absolute food quality is off topic and JOUY31 was right in pointing out that we shouldn't veer too far off. My original point was the difference between food for pax and food for crews and how that fits the picture of Air France's crews' concern for their private pet comfort, which often leads to strikes. Sure, one is governed by labour contracts, but how wicked must one's commercial mind be to cut pax service levels but to keep it up for employees and then rub it under their nose? Also, how can it be that all other airline crews find less condescending ways to deal with the issue of crews being on the road for several rotations in a row, but not AF? Simple: they just get served the normal business class catering, but no special meals. On top of that, no shorthaul crew is flying during all three meals of the day (I happen to know their plans), unlike many pax.

I'll leave it at that, I think we have made our points clear. I find this strike silly and unjustified (no real reason, only ones in the world to go on strike for this), and I think it fits the picture of AF crew being very concerned about their personal comfort/benefits/privileges (which is OK), even if this means putting off customers (which I find strange) and going on strike (which they do much more often than others). You argue that all European airlines are more or less the same on this, and I don't agree. So let's agree to disagree.

I don't want to be accused of completely hijacking this thread, which is also providing very useful info for many pax out there.


________________________

To add some own experience: return from EWR to CDG last Friday. Conflicting information first, plane then left with about 1 hour delay (which may not have to do anything with strike). On the ground, customer staff couldn't really help pax other than saying "contact ground staff in Paris". Same by FAs in the air. On the ground in Paris, Terminal 2E (after the cumpolsory 10 minute wait for the jetway and then being locked out of the terminal for another 10 minutes), customer service counters seemed well staffed, and there were no long queues.

Oh, and of course: I was sitting next to a guy in Business who was put there by an FA during taxiing to the departure runway with the words "Make yourself comfortable here, darling. I'll be a bit busy in the beginning but I'll come to see you later." Similar cabin shuffles during outbound flight. Sigh...

Armchair Flyer

Creber's posts pretty much sum up all my thoughts and views only it's put so much better than I could. I have zero sympathy and tolerance with this situation and I doubt that I will if/when the FA's decide to strike either

As we all have the power of choice, mine is that wherever possible I'll be doing my déplacements either on another airline, or by train, starting tomorrow. Thus tomorrow I'm training it to Germany, ok it's an extra couple of hours, but first class return no hassle at 250€ as opposed to TC and AF hassle at 900€ seems like a bargain to me.

AF announce strikes, I announce that I will take my patronage elsewhere.

JOUY31

Trains, with the several SNCF strikes coming up this week and next week ? I've just booked an opti-miles (Yes, I still call them that way ) award between LYS and CDG next week in case one or more of my several train segments are cancelled ...

Armchair Flyer

Tomorrow I'm training it. If there's a strike I'll revert back to the airlines, only I'll be avoiding AF if I can

(Ah and I am on DB metal though that may not make a difference......)

stimpy

That's what I'm doing too this week, but I prefer trains over planes even when there isn't a AF strike. However there are times when SNCF and Deutsche Bahn are on strike too.

JOUY31

I guess the DB you are referring to is not Brit Air.

nicolas75

Speaking about Brit Air, I will fly next week to Bilbao. How is the new terminal G?

San Gottardo

This is a very smart move by Air France.

I do seriously hope that ground staff won't go on strike for having to work in the middle of the night.

couscous

Would not surprise me..

JOUY31

Come on, we can criticize AF staff for their actual misdeeds. Criticizing them for what they might do or might have done could be overdoing it a bit .

stimpy

Are any BritAir flights experiencing difficulties this week?