"HOP!" will be new name of merged AF regional airlines
Jan 29, 2013, 8:44 am
#76
Join Date: May 2011
Programs: FB plf; IB oro; LA black
Posts: 457
Jan 29, 2013, 8:50 am
#77
Moderator: Flying Blue (Air France & KLM), France and TravelBuzz!
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Paris, France, AF F+ Rouge pour toujours, Flying Blue whatever, LH FTL, HHonors Gold, formerly proud SCC Executive, now IC Ambassador, BA down to nobody, Grand Voyageur Le Club
Posts: 12,404
Jan 29, 2013, 9:22 am
#78
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,568
Fun to see our frequent contributors so worked up.
Most share the common feature to be 1) customers 2) well experienced in traveling with many different airlines. Clearly they find the new Mini/HOP plan nonsensical. AdJ does not have free hands at AF, far from it, but this is his plan nevertheless. The situation with the regional airlines was desperate. The situation at the mainline was very poor given high staff costs and inflexibilities, in particular in terms of firing staff or drastically increasing workload. Whether this new plan will bring improvement to the bottom line is the question.
My question is how to measure success and the horizon to do it. We know that AF will call it a success for a while. That's usual (note that they have stopped calling Bases de Province a success).
It takes time for the infrequent fliers to asses the new situation and adapt their choices. The trend is not favorable to AF and the question is whether the plan will stem the flow and even reverse the trend. In the short run, there might be an increase in pax attracted by an expensive advertisement campaign. In the medium term, many AF pax might look elsewhere. My guess is that we need a year to asses the situation. It will also be interesting to see what revisions are made to the original plan when AF learns from experience.
Most share the common feature to be 1) customers 2) well experienced in traveling with many different airlines. Clearly they find the new Mini/HOP plan nonsensical. AdJ does not have free hands at AF, far from it, but this is his plan nevertheless. The situation with the regional airlines was desperate. The situation at the mainline was very poor given high staff costs and inflexibilities, in particular in terms of firing staff or drastically increasing workload. Whether this new plan will bring improvement to the bottom line is the question.
My question is how to measure success and the horizon to do it. We know that AF will call it a success for a while. That's usual (note that they have stopped calling Bases de Province a success).
It takes time for the infrequent fliers to asses the new situation and adapt their choices. The trend is not favorable to AF and the question is whether the plan will stem the flow and even reverse the trend. In the short run, there might be an increase in pax attracted by an expensive advertisement campaign. In the medium term, many AF pax might look elsewhere. My guess is that we need a year to asses the situation. It will also be interesting to see what revisions are made to the original plan when AF learns from experience.
Jan 29, 2013, 11:37 am
#79
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,836
"HOP!" will be new name of merged AF regional airlines
AF doesn't have a problem filling its planes - high load factors bear witness to it.
AF has a problem filling its planes with people prepared to spend an amount of money that allows AF to earn a profit on them.
AF has a problem filling its planes with people prepared to spend an amount of money that allows AF to earn a profit on them.
Jan 29, 2013, 11:45 am
#80
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,545
And/or AF has a problem with the unreasonable amount of money it would need customers to spend on each ticket to make its activity profitable (cost structure) and this is not due to 187 miles, costless seat selections at OLCI or the newspaper - it is due to its "masse salariale" and its productivity.
Jan 29, 2013, 12:43 pm
#81
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ORY
Programs: Flying Blue Ivory, EasyJet Plus, Club Corsair Gold, Thalys TheCard Platinum, Navigo 1-5
Posts: 1,990
One fun fact : there are more non rev tickets issued (R1/N1) than Flying Blue awards tickets on Air France.
Last edited by Mokshu; Jan 29, 2013 at 2:06 pm Reason: very ugly typo that would make any grammar nazi go mad on me
Jan 29, 2013, 1:56 pm
#82
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,545
Jan 29, 2013, 3:47 pm
#83
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Boston, MA, USA
Programs: FB LTPE, BAEC GGL, EK Blue, SK Gold, Marriott Amb+LTT, IHG Diamond Amb, Accorhotels Silver
Posts: 1,960
Maybe Air France will continue to market connecting flights operated by HOP!.
Jan 29, 2013, 3:53 pm
#84
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: AF/KL FB Plat ; A3 Gold ; HH Gold ; IHG Plat Amb
Posts: 2,380
Jan 30, 2013, 12:46 am
#85
Join Date: Feb 2012
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum, Le ClubAccor Gold
Posts: 776
Hey,
I don't really get the story about buying 250miles for 5€ per leg when booking a basic fare.
When you try to make a reservation you can actually "purchase" this option but then you have to enter a value for each leg (for example "10") which will be invoiced 50€... Does this mean that for this leg, you buy your ticket and 10x250=2500 miles ? It would lead to 50€ for traveling and 50€ for miles and you make a flight that cost you 100€ and get 2500miles ?
It seems weird...as it was understood as 250miles if you pay 5€ per leg. And not 500miles if you're willing to pay 10€.
How about all the booking transfered to HOP ? When you purchased the lowest fare with AF (125miles earning) which corresponds in HOP to "no miles earning". Will you still get the miles with the transfered booking?
I don't really get the story about buying 250miles for 5€ per leg when booking a basic fare.
When you try to make a reservation you can actually "purchase" this option but then you have to enter a value for each leg (for example "10") which will be invoiced 50€... Does this mean that for this leg, you buy your ticket and 10x250=2500 miles ? It would lead to 50€ for traveling and 50€ for miles and you make a flight that cost you 100€ and get 2500miles ?
It seems weird...as it was understood as 250miles if you pay 5€ per leg. And not 500miles if you're willing to pay 10€.
How about all the booking transfered to HOP ? When you purchased the lowest fare with AF (125miles earning) which corresponds in HOP to "no miles earning". Will you still get the miles with the transfered booking?
Jan 30, 2013, 1:51 am
#86
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ORY
Programs: Flying Blue Ivory, EasyJet Plus, Club Corsair Gold, Thalys TheCard Platinum, Navigo 1-5
Posts: 1,990
Very bad news for my Business trips all over France departing from Montpellier, if that remains the case.
Maybe Air France will continue to market connecting flights operated by HOP!.
Some of mine are starting to migrate, but the migration seems to be done flight by flight and not PNR by PNR. Half of my reservation has been updated:
Maybe Air France will continue to market connecting flights operated by HOP!.
Some of mine are starting to migrate, but the migration seems to be done flight by flight and not PNR by PNR. Half of my reservation has been updated:
Jan 30, 2013, 2:01 am
#87
Join Date: May 2005
Location: EUR
Programs: FB Plat./BA Gold (thanks BD)/A3 *Gold/HH Diamond/A Club Gold
Posts: 918
Given that most of us don't really care about 175 miles here or there, and probably don't travel with luggage on regional routes, there is only one really iportant question :
Can Elites still Hop into AF lounges?
Can Elites still Hop into AF lounges?
Jan 30, 2013, 2:09 am
#88
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,836
With MINI by Air France these elite privileges are maintained, but since the objective was to confuse customers (or wasn't an objective but merely an accident?) the two offers aren't aligned - so what is the deal with HOP?
Jan 30, 2013, 2:39 am
#90
Moderator: Flying Blue (Air France & KLM), France and TravelBuzz!
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Paris, France, AF F+ Rouge pour toujours, Flying Blue whatever, LH FTL, HHonors Gold, formerly proud SCC Executive, now IC Ambassador, BA down to nobody, Grand Voyageur Le Club
Posts: 12,404
And can they HOP through priority lanes? Will their HOP onto the better seats on the plane (=in the front)? Do they have to pay for luggage when using BASIC fares?
With MINI by Air France these elite privileges are maintained, but since the objective was to confuse customers (or wasn't an objective but merely an accident?) the two offers aren't aligned - so what is the deal with HOP?
With MINI by Air France these elite privileges are maintained, but since the objective was to confuse customers (or wasn't an objective but merely an accident?) the two offers aren't aligned - so what is the deal with HOP?
With respect to HOP!, I would hope that the situation with these Elite benefits is the same. I haven't seen anything pointing to the contrary.
Last edited by JOUY31; Jan 30, 2013 at 2:44 am