pokee

This is an excellent point. I feel like the FAs are becoming more limited in their service because they put up with so much crap AND they know they have the power now to do something about it. I am not talking about doing something about abusive behavior, but doing something because someone pissed them off and/or they are in a bad mood. There's a difference!

Think about a "regular" server at a restaurant. They're essentially providing similar types of service (serving drinks and food) but could a customer get kicked out of a restaurant for arguing with a server about not providing better service? No way - not unless they were racist or horribly abusive or posing a safety issue (or a small place with a Soup Nazi). In fact, the server could be fired for being so unhelpful and rude to the customer!

So how did a "server in the skies" job become so "entitled"? I keep seeing posts about how passengers are entitled - but heck, people pay THOUSANDS of dollars for flights, so they are entitled to their entitlement, if you ask me. So how did FAs get so much power to be a dick, just because they're having a bad day and/or hate their job? I am not saying that this was the story in this case, but when you have other FAs and passengers on a flight defending you, and the pilot feels badly about kicking you off, you KNOW there's a problem with the power this FA held.

I get that there's a safety component to their job - therein lies the difference between the restaurant server and the sky server. So kicking someone off a plane because they're going nuts, or hurting someone else, or threatening to blow up the plane, or being abusive to all the flight crew - all good reasons. But mouthing off to one FA who's obviously not going to go above and beyond (when really - they should ALWAYS do) and standing your ground when they demand an apology "or else" - justifies getting booted from the plane? Not in my book. Would I have apologized though? Of course I would have. I know when to shut up. But sometimes people feel like they need to prove a point - no matter the cost. And in this case, it was quite costly...

Badenoch

If you were asked hundreds of times in a month to help open a door at your work place and be lectured by some entitled jerk about "customer service" when you declined you'd eventually declare it wasn't your job too. You might even tell the person to get stuffed.

Incidentally, what is "contact" law?

pokee

The OPs claim is to get his $10K back for expenses he would not have occurred if the help by AC staff had been available at the Rome airport, as promised by the pilot. They were left to their own devices to get home, and it cost them money.

His point about the FA not helping with the bag, merely justifies the illogical reason for getting kicked off the plane. Arguing that they should be helping his young daughter to keep the boarding line running is not unreasonable, IMO. And I don't think it would be an invalid reason in a claim, either. And the bad press AC will get from this - regardless of what REALLY happened, is NOT favorable...

pokee

If someone has a job that involves customer service ever felt like telling someone to "get stuffed" because they were asked to do something that wasn't in their job description - they REALLY need to get a new job.

Perhaps this is the problem with FAs - they REALLY hate their jobs - but they don't want to leave, because you know, free flights and all...

So instead, they're HOLES to anyone to asks them to do something that is not in their job description...right...

Do you know how many times ANYONE in the service industry gets asked to do things that are not in their job descriptions on a daily basis? Likely hundreds. And they do them. And they do them with a smile on their face.

This is the difference between every single job in the service industry and flight attendants, I suppose...?

LeisureMiler

Making unhelpful and empty comparisons, aiming for relevance based on unrelated experience does tend to make the analogy you make pure demagogy. And yes, you could have told him to shove it. What you did is based on pure social norms, and it is possible that at that moment, you had an injury, an emergency meeting or your phone rang and it was a phone call you absolutely had to take. Even within social norms, ... the point being the person who asks in your example has to assume that they are asking a yes/no question and that no is a possibility, and that that possibility shouldn't lead to an argument.

The OP asked a yes / no question, and he did not take no as an answer, repeatedly with first FA, and then, even after the IC's explanation. Again, what is that if not entitlement? No was a valid answer to his question.

What it does, is vindicate the FA, as faced with ignorance and stubbornness, even with the explanations of the IC provided afterwards to pax, there was nothing more to do than expel him.

To compound the ignorance... Let's talk about security, it's the second comment at least that refers to marshalls... Please look up what security means, as part of the job description of FAs. Or look up Air France flight 358 at least. That's what they spend hours and hours learning and training for, every year. Not catering. Of course, service is a component of their job description, but not at the expense of security.

Why does everyone have to think security means holding a gun to someone's head?

And what's contact law anyway? Is it full contact?

Badenoch

Your mistake is concluding FAs are there to "service" your every whim and demand. The moral of the story is don't be an (expletive deleted) when dealing with the cabin crew. Don't bicker with them. You might find yourself being marched off the aircraft.

The FAs have a job to do. Being your personal porter is not among them.

pokee

It really depends who you're sitting by and the moods of these people. I've seen little old ladies struggling to get a bag in an overhead and everyone around her is ignoring her. I've seen women with small children struggling, and no one helping (including the "it's not in my job description FAs" rolling their eyes and quickly vanishing from the scene) - and I've seen the EXACT opposite - where everyone is running in to help. You just never know what you're gonna get - and apparently that applies to FAs, too....

james dean

Perfect & I'm wondering what contact Law is too, maybe Law against touching anything (like bags for overhead bins) Lol!

skybluesea

pokee

They're not there to "service your every whim" - no one is disputing that. Even restaurant servers aren't employed to do that.

The moral of the story is that the service industry is going downhill.

It's a shame - because ask anyone if an FA helped them with their bag in the past 5 years, and you'd likely get a lot of yes answers. It's not unreasonable to assume that this is part of their job - or at the very least, a courtesy they can extend to children to keep the boarding process running smoothly.

I am always thrilled and surprised when I get happy FAs - the best have been AS staff on the BLI-PDX route. Probably because the FAs on the Q400s don't have to deal with mounds of overhead luggage, and the flights are short - but man, would be nice if they were all this pleasant. Sadly, they're discontinuing that route, too...

skybluesea

YVRYEGYVR

that was a lot to skim through..

I agree, a child of 10 may have difficulty putting their bag up.

Ideal situation was mentioned: OP tells kid to just wait 30sec and he does it.

What about those two pax in between, if it were me, I would toss the bag up, smile, and think about how great I am to have avoided OPs need to write a letter and get influencer agency involved.

FA Definitely not having the best day.

I was quite surprised to see that pax had to be removed from the flight, that definitely seems overkill. I do feel with what happened to OP afterwards wrt booking and not getting on an appropriate flight- and maybe that part of the story may merit some attention/compensation.

Good on FT member to highlight description of FA role which does describe (and one would expect it to include) helping get luggage overhead.

FAs should play tetris in the overhead to get everything in and I think should take pride in doing so. Helping a little girl get a bag up does not constitute above and beyond service imo.

Agree, while FAs have a major role in patient safety and may see their job in this vein, the face of their role is definitely customer service, and they must excel at it to appease 200 people in a sardine can.

This is one of those cases where everyone can share a little bit of the blame, and OP most definitely the most for causing this to spiral out of control.

Should OP have asked for contact info from adjacent pax prior to deboarding? Is that ever done? Like at a traffic accident- much of the supportive evidence can shape the final outcome.

Definitely an expensive lesson for OP, and the letter was terrible.

FlyerTalker70

The only thing worse than a DYKWIA, is a DYKWIA parent acting out in front of their children, ensuring we have another generation of overly entitled DYKWIA pax making our travel experiences that more miserable.

mats184

It obviously should have been contract law. If the contract with the airline promises services beyond transport from A to B there should be expectations.
Every airline advertises perfect service, helpfulness of staff and so on.

If I worked directly with customers I would have gladly done so to make sure they were satisfied and come back another time.

It is too easy for a flight attendant to treat people badly, like in this case. Most customer service related jobs including on the phone, restaurants, hotels and so on experience difficult, demanding or rude customers every single day but manage to keep their cool and solve the issues in stead of removing them from their place of business.

Of course there is a difference at 30-40' feet with limited options but this seems to inhuman and stupid of the AC crew. Safely is the number one concern in every workplace and it should be, but I cannot see how safety was compromised at all in this case.

mats184

Obviously it should have been contract law.... Please ask anyone working with customers how most customers are: a pain in the butt. Still they mange everyday, multiple times a day to handle these, with a smile!
How many times a day does a member of cabin crew perform an emergency landing, evacuation or prepare for a crash? How many times a day does the same person greet everyone (I know this is partly from safety reasons), serve coffee, food or help with inquiries? Of course safety is the main priority as in any work place and so is the crews to make sure the passengers goes from A to B safely. Of course the whole crew inspect all aspects with the aircraft before boarding and during the duration of the flight. But that is my point, if that was all they did, they could have had anybody trained to handle these tasks. They don't. As you suggest many items for me to read up on, I will give you one: Please have a look at the requirement documentary from BA or indeed EK crew, what is the most important? Well: how to look presentable (uniforms and make up, etc.) knowing the wine list, the food selection, how to interact with customers as well as the evacuation processes (which most never will use).