moondog

For sure,
1. He asks
2. She says no
3. He says ok
4. Other people get the picture, and make way for him to get through

LeisureMiler

OP, welcome to FT!

OP, it was short and sweet, hope you had as much fun as we did!

WaytoomuchEurope

It occurs to me that there are quite a few people on here who would lift their bags into the OH bins almost as often as you laid out here. As far as I can tell the only back issues these people have are some bruising from poorly designed deflating seats.

I'm not saying it is an FA job to lift the bags - it isn't. I'm just suggesting you find a new argument as to why you shouldn't. There's no way workers comp would cover me or I'd have a successful lawsuit suing my employer if I complained about my back several years down the line after a thousand work related flights.

yowspotter

Sorry to be a broken record, but I for one am much less concerned about the minutia of this encounter and more concerned about potential abuse of power. Booting someone from a flight is a very serious measure and has very significant, multi-faceted follow-on consequences for the traveler(s) and possibly the airline itself. A decision like this should never be taken lightly and should only be used when a person represents a perceived or real safety concern (belligerence/violence, uttering threats, drunkenness, etc.). I one am becoming increasingly concerned that FAs are using this ultimate of "weapons" to exact revenge on pax who are, admittedly, all too often jerks. This is simply not fair nor appropriate use of one's authority.

YEG_SE4Life

We don't know for sure that happened. We have only heard one side. It also looks like there is a check and balance in place. It appears that the SD has to convince the CA that the passenger needs to be offloaded. It looks like it is actually the CA that comes back and advises the passenger. We can't tell, from the few cases that we have seen, how often the SD comes to the CA with a problem and the CA decides that the passenger does not present some sort of risk.

LeisureMiler

IMHO, the FA did what she/he felt was needed, and the captain did talk to the FA (and most likely, the IC was involved in this discussion as well), and his first responsibility is to the crew and security of the ship. The OP's attitude was inadmissible. It's a clear breach of the chain of command, challenging her in public (in front of other passengers), second guessing her call, more than once, and not backing down (apologizing, for example). He crossed the line between expressing discontent at bad service (which he could have raised with the IC later on one to one) and undermining her authority. He made it a polarized me against you situation, where she wasn't doing her job and he was the ultimate judge of that.

Sure, you can allow it, let it go... but you're going to be stuck for 8+ hours with someone who FA probably thought was a loose cannon. The FAs already have to deal with 200+ unknowns on the ship, assuming they will behave in a tin can without any exits for 8+ hours. Dealing with the additional burden of someone who doesn't behave right from the start? As a passenger on that flight, I'd have been glad they were expelled.

As for OP's perception of his politeness, I don't buy it. It's just too perfect, too one sided. It reeks of victimization. It's the bully's response once he's been caught and reprimanded and has no choice to act the victim, cuz he can't be the bully anymore. Boohoo!

I've been captain on a ship. I've been a certified sailing instructor. Security is paramount, like while flying. Once airborne, as in the middle of the sea, you are in a hostile environment, with very little protecting you from that environment. Of course, we forget that as pax and yay to feeling comfortable and safe. We expect the FAs to serve us drinks, food and water, and be chatty and smiley, and I don't deny they should, but their first and foremost duty is security. If the proverbial sh*t hits the fan, our lives are in their hands and they are trained for this (they even go through explosive decompression simulations, for example). OP, and is holier than thou attitude (sorry, but whatever his troubles with his kids, he wasn't managing 200+ people in a confined space) was inappropriate, and the FA did what she/he thought was right. And most certainly didn't do that lightly.

Who do you think is more aware of the consequences of kicking someone out of a flight? The crew.

So, I personally hope the OP learns his lesson, doesn't get a cent from AC (not even his expenses, which are the direct result of his behaviour, the captain's on the moment empathy notwithstanding). Maybe his two kids tickets should be reimbursed, because they shouldn't have to suffer the consequences of their father having behaved inappropriately on the airplane (even if paid with the father's money, obviously)

moondog

The OP was not an employee of the "ship", rather a PAYING customer. Perhaps he was a loose cannon, but accepting the FA's word for such without corroboration from anyone else doesn't sit well with me.

james dean

I think the crew deplaning the pax was the right thing to do, as mentioned in 8 hours a lot can happen to an already hostile situation. Sure there's always two sides to every story, but an airplane crossing the Atlantic at 36,000' isn't the right place to adjudicate the matter. Err of the safe side, safety first, well being of the entire crew & passengers etc etc. Not saying the OP doesn't have a valid argument, but once a decision is made to remove it's a done deal!

yowspotter

Quoting out of sequence just to help make the point.

I certainly hope so but I'm a bit skeptical considering all variables at play. The scenario is pre-departure and extremely busy. Timetables need to be met. The decision maker wasn't involved and defers to the crew's judgment. This relies on the crew being honest both with the PIC and with themselves on the assessed "threat" of the person to be booted. The person to be booted doesn't have the opportunity to "defend" him/herself in this "ad-hoc tribunal" that occurs up front. I choose to believe the vast majority of crew would be honest in this situation, but the bad apples are out there and they need to be exposed. It's not right to fabricate or exaggerate a story as a means to exact revenge on someone. That is unfairly punitive and totally inappropriate use of one's authority.

Indeed. This is why I prefaced my initial post by saying something like "if OP's account is accurate ..."

tom_MN

If, as it seems, the passengers were ejected because of a refusal to apologize to AC staff for a non-profane, non-threatening comment-- that's just wrong. I don't think kissing the feet of airline staff is in the conditions of carriage.

LondonElite

I too am regularly a captain of a ship, with a skipper's ticket. If I had a FA equivalent to what was reported here (I'll take it at face value, I'm not changing my tune on the OP's self-dug grave) on the boat, he would be sent to pack his bags and walk the docks. Any power-tripping like that in the harbour is going to be explosive at sea. Don't need that.

tom_MN

Since the issue was helping the younger daughter with her bag, it's completely nonsensical to give the customer exactly what they are asking for, assistance with placing a bag in the bin, but then do it in a mean way simply to anger the customer.

runningonfumes

just sue AC. frankly, it is the only way to get them to do anything. then also make sure you don't settle before you get all the correspondence that will have been generated on this already. frankly, AC's FA's think they are untouchable and lie like bags of flour on each other until they get taken to task. even unions drop lying members like bad habits.

YEG_SE4Life

I doubt that anyone would disagree with your statement that I have bolded. *I would also be willing to bet that, if the crew punted a passenger, a report will have to be filed. It will probably be treated like an incident where AC management will conduct a bit of an investigation and determine whether or not the crew's actions were justified. I doubt it just ends when the passenger gets taken off the plane. *speculation alert!*

Edit: There is an electronic form that the SD fills out and sends to the company, when a passenger is removed from a flight.

BlaiseBOS

Versions of OP's rant (which I assume to have been written by Mrs. OP, who is a native English speaker) have appeared elsewhere in Mrs. OP's *personal* social media (and visible to the general public) since July 24. It clearly wasn't gaining any traction, so the tale limped over to FT a week later.

One would have expected the universe to start shaking and quaking the moment that AC was informed that Mrs. OP works at an INFLUENCER AGENCY. Then I found a work sample that said a lot: Mrs. OP stars in a video entitled "Give Her Bangs She Won't Regret."

With the above info, I think we can safely conclude that OP has shown a tendency to not tell it like it is; I'm going with AC on this one.