Nov 20, 2017, 2:16 pm
Last edit by: Argonaut1000
Click here to go to a picture of the White Compensation Form and its stub
View Deflated Seat History Here (Database for submitted occurrences)
Enter New Deflated Seat Occurrence Here (Submit one if you have experienced deflated seat and it will show up in the database above)
----
From post #49 in this thread, here's one potential way to (re)inflate an AC seat:
A better method is for a crew member to use the reset switch under the seat, on the aisle side.
Compensation offers (green/white sheet completed)
40K AE- Apr 18 (50% back of the J class one way redemption)
2018 Jun - $500 coupon
2018 Sep $1,000 eCoupon or 40K AP (P fare TPAC)
2018 Sep $500 eCoupon (P fare TPAC) (no change on protest- update - 6 months later the $150 was increased to $500 - admitted they had made an error)
Compensation offers (no green/white sheet completed)
100K - May 5 (C$150 eCoupon; was moved to a functioning seat after meal service)
2017 Sept - 8,000 AE miles - reported via complaint web page after realizing it was a faulty seat, not standard discomfort; Asked for return of eUps but they declined.
2017 Nov & 2018 Feb - $500 coupons both times (second time on protest that $500 had been offered the previous time)
2018 Sep. $250 coupon (on a paid J TATL).
2018 Nov - $500 eCoupon (J TATL)
Standard eCoupon compensation offers (no haggling; following a recurring pattern)
~10+ hours: $1000
Long TPAC (TPE-YVR)
~6 to ~10 hours: $500
Short TPAC (NRT-YVR)
TATL
South America: YYZ-GRU
less than ~6 hours: 300
TCON
Have a Service Director (SD) That Is Giving You the Case of the Shrugs? Like the real life version of this ASCII emoji -> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ?
No success with the SD and/or crew rectifying your deflated seat and you can't be/aren't accommodated to another J seat? If you asked for a compensation form and the SD says they have no idea what you are talking about, you can use the below picture of the stub portion to help freshen their memory (better than nothing)...
Please note that for the longest time, the "Green Compensation Form" version was used, and there have been recent reports of the "White Compensation Form" replacing the Green version. Reports here have indicated that the two forms are virtually identical except for the colour.
There is now an even newer White Form which explicitly lists "deflated seat" and "deflated seat and fixed", among many other items.
Here is a snapshot of the NEWEST full form (as of August 2019), courtesy of lallied
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/31421855-post2093.html
This is only the stub portion, courtesy of lallied
Mattress pads purchased and listed in this thread
View Deflated Seat History Here (Database for submitted occurrences)
Enter New Deflated Seat Occurrence Here (Submit one if you have experienced deflated seat and it will show up in the database above)
----
From post #49 in this thread, here's one potential way to (re)inflate an AC seat:
- Go the home screen "Your Seat". (find this on the seat side panel; not the main video screen)
- Hold the top left hand corner "Air Canada" (with AC logo) for 3 seconds. Updated (Apr 9 18): may need to hold for as long as 45 seconds for key pad to appear
- Dial pad shows up - hit 3-2-1.
- Press "Reset Lumbar Support"
A better method is for a crew member to use the reset switch under the seat, on the aisle side.
Compensation offers (green/white sheet completed)
40K AE- Apr 18 (50% back of the J class one way redemption)
2018 Jun - $500 coupon
2018 Sep $1,000 eCoupon or 40K AP (P fare TPAC)
2018 Sep $500 eCoupon (P fare TPAC) (no change on protest- update - 6 months later the $150 was increased to $500 - admitted they had made an error)
Compensation offers (no green/white sheet completed)
100K - May 5 (C$150 eCoupon; was moved to a functioning seat after meal service)
2017 Sept - 8,000 AE miles - reported via complaint web page after realizing it was a faulty seat, not standard discomfort; Asked for return of eUps but they declined.
2017 Nov & 2018 Feb - $500 coupons both times (second time on protest that $500 had been offered the previous time)
2018 Sep. $250 coupon (on a paid J TATL).
2018 Nov - $500 eCoupon (J TATL)
Standard eCoupon compensation offers (no haggling; following a recurring pattern)
~10+ hours: $1000
Long TPAC (TPE-YVR)
~6 to ~10 hours: $500
Short TPAC (NRT-YVR)
TATL
South America: YYZ-GRU
less than ~6 hours: 300
TCON
Have a Service Director (SD) That Is Giving You the Case of the Shrugs? Like the real life version of this ASCII emoji -> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ?
No success with the SD and/or crew rectifying your deflated seat and you can't be/aren't accommodated to another J seat? If you asked for a compensation form and the SD says they have no idea what you are talking about, you can use the below picture of the stub portion to help freshen their memory (better than nothing)...
Please note that for the longest time, the "Green Compensation Form" version was used, and there have been recent reports of the "White Compensation Form" replacing the Green version. Reports here have indicated that the two forms are virtually identical except for the colour.
There is now an even newer White Form which explicitly lists "deflated seat" and "deflated seat and fixed", among many other items.
Here is a snapshot of the NEWEST full form (as of August 2019), courtesy of lallied
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/31421855-post2093.html
This is only the stub portion, courtesy of lallied
Mattress pads purchased and listed in this thread
Deflategate; new executive pods deflating in-flight
May 13, 2019, 1:59 pm
#1741
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE100K, Bonvoy Platinum Elite, IHG Gold, Hertz 5*
Posts: 2,132
Have to say, the process of discourse here has swayed my thinking some on the concierge checking the seat - particularly if AC has recommended that. I think it's asinine to require it and that the existing FAs already aboard aren't doing it, but it's not my call, and some interesting points are raised above on why one SHOULD engage the concierge.
My reaction to this point would likely have been different to the poster above had it not been included with some other comments.
Personally I won't be asking a concierge to do this for me - I feel capable of handling that part myself. Perhaps I need to engage a concierge if I board the plane and find a deflated seat and the SD is unwilling to change my seats, but I suspect in most cases the SD and I would be able to handle the issue between us.
My reaction to this point would likely have been different to the poster above had it not been included with some other comments.
Personally I won't be asking a concierge to do this for me - I feel capable of handling that part myself. Perhaps I need to engage a concierge if I board the plane and find a deflated seat and the SD is unwilling to change my seats, but I suspect in most cases the SD and I would be able to handle the issue between us.
May 14, 2019, 2:29 am
#1742
Join Date: Mar 2019
Programs: Air Canada Altitude, Star Alliance
Posts: 4
This whole thread made me think of something besides asking the concierge. Don’t they “clean” the plane between flights, especially with their larger aircrafts. Why don’t they just add to the protocol to check the seats for deflation and repair them prior to next flight?
but they don’t, which leads me to believe they don’t really seem to care about it. I’m also convinced that a lot of this goes unreported, especially by travelers who are not frequent biz class pax and just think the seat is what it is. Same goes for folks being upgraded, I mean, they’re just happy about the upgrade so may care less about that.
in retrospective, I probably shouldn’t of taken someone else’s seat and have the FD figure it out. But once again, I did as I was told and the concierge team never really checked the seat so felt it was like adding insulting to injury...
but they don’t, which leads me to believe they don’t really seem to care about it. I’m also convinced that a lot of this goes unreported, especially by travelers who are not frequent biz class pax and just think the seat is what it is. Same goes for folks being upgraded, I mean, they’re just happy about the upgrade so may care less about that.
in retrospective, I probably shouldn’t of taken someone else’s seat and have the FD figure it out. But once again, I did as I was told and the concierge team never really checked the seat so felt it was like adding insulting to injury...
May 14, 2019, 5:21 am
#1743
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC SEMM / HH Diamond
Posts: 3,167
From the perspective of someone who has never experienced the problem yet:
My understanding is that the bladder can be replaced relatively quickly if you're in one of the hubs. Thus, if I'm boarding in (YYZ YUL YVR) and my schedule allows me to board with zone 1, then I think the best approach is just to board as normal, and verify the seat inflation state myself. If there's a problem then I would inform the SD that a repair was required, and then refuse to sit down until it's fixed. It's not clear to me what value the concierge would add to that scenario (especially as we have reports that some concierge will check the wrong parts of the seat functionality)
If I'm boarding in a remote station (HKG, etc), and a quick seat bladder replacement is less viable - that's a different scenario. In that case, if my seat is deflated then I think I would want to know early, in order to prevent any non-deflated seats from being given away as upgrades - so when a quick repair is not viable, early notice does have value.
My understanding is that the bladder can be replaced relatively quickly if you're in one of the hubs. Thus, if I'm boarding in (YYZ YUL YVR) and my schedule allows me to board with zone 1, then I think the best approach is just to board as normal, and verify the seat inflation state myself. If there's a problem then I would inform the SD that a repair was required, and then refuse to sit down until it's fixed. It's not clear to me what value the concierge would add to that scenario (especially as we have reports that some concierge will check the wrong parts of the seat functionality)
If I'm boarding in a remote station (HKG, etc), and a quick seat bladder replacement is less viable - that's a different scenario. In that case, if my seat is deflated then I think I would want to know early, in order to prevent any non-deflated seats from being given away as upgrades - so when a quick repair is not viable, early notice does have value.
May 14, 2019, 5:41 am
#1744
Join Date: Jan 2001
Programs: AC SEMM
Posts: 724
Currently on a trip, had a deflated seat on a 787-9 out of YYZ on Sunday. Boarded plane early, checked seat, upper bladder deflated. Immediately notified FA, asked for maintenance to replace bladder, also asked for concierge. SD initially baulked at calling concierge but I was politely firm in insisting that maintenance be asked to replace bladder (no reset accepted) and that concierge attend as well. Maintenance turned up quite quickly, and they replaced both upper and lower bladders - no argument, was clear this is now a pretty common occurrence. Purpose of having concierge there was to register my frustration etc., etc.,. May be useless but ...
May 14, 2019, 6:27 am
#1745
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: YOW
Programs: AC-SE100K, AC-3MM, Marriott- LT Titanium, SPG RIP
Posts: 2,959
It's not clear to me what value the concierge would add to that scenario ....
If I'm boarding in a remote station (HKG, etc), and a quick seat bladder replacement is less viable - that's a different scenario. In that case, if my seat is deflated then I think I would want to know early, in order to prevent any non-deflated seats from being given away as upgrades - so when a quick repair is not viable, early notice does have value.
If I'm boarding in a remote station (HKG, etc), and a quick seat bladder replacement is less viable - that's a different scenario. In that case, if my seat is deflated then I think I would want to know early, in order to prevent any non-deflated seats from being given away as upgrades - so when a quick repair is not viable, early notice does have value.
May 14, 2019, 6:28 am
#1746
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: YOW
Programs: AC-SE100K, AC-3MM, Marriott- LT Titanium, SPG RIP
Posts: 2,959
I agree- while I understand the frustration (especially after asking the Concierge to check the seat), its not cool to take another's seat.... If I found you in my seat, I would definitely ask you to move.
May 14, 2019, 10:04 am
#1747
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,347
The first time I had this problem (806 / 1K, many years ago), the SD told me she had never flown in one of the new pods, and didn't know what it should feel like.
And I suspect flight crew are generally much more likely to know what the seats feel like than a concierge.
May 14, 2019, 10:19 am
#1748
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: YOW
Programs: AC-SE100K, AC-3MM, Marriott- LT Titanium, SPG RIP
Posts: 2,959
But do you trust a concierge to make a correct assessment of the seat?
The first time I had this problem (806 / 1K, many years ago), the SD told me she had never flown in one of the new pods, and didn't know what it should feel like.
And I suspect flight crew are generally much more likely to know what the seats feel like than a concierge.
The first time I had this problem (806 / 1K, many years ago), the SD told me she had never flown in one of the new pods, and didn't know what it should feel like.
And I suspect flight crew are generally much more likely to know what the seats feel like than a concierge.
I will often describe the issue, rather than just to say 'can you check the seat'.
There still could be an issue that for a non-native english speaker, the word 'deflation' may not be a familiar one.
May 14, 2019, 10:38 am
#1749
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,347
Good question. I do see up thread where the Concierge was asked to check the seat, and seemed to check the controls only.
I will often describe the issue, rather than just to say 'can you check the seat'.
There still could be an issue that for a non-native english speaker, the word 'deflation' may not be a familiar one.
I will often describe the issue, rather than just to say 'can you check the seat'.
There still could be an issue that for a non-native english speaker, the word 'deflation' may not be a familiar one.
May 14, 2019, 11:48 am
#1750
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: YYZ
Programs: FOTSG Tangerine Ex E35k (AC)
Posts: 5,612
I think the issue is more that if they don't have a reference point, even if they're checking in a reasonable manner, they may not realize there's an issue. If you don't know what a good seat feels like and what a bad seat feels like, it's very difficult to conclusively say "this is deflated".
May 14, 2019, 3:33 pm
#1751
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE 2MM; UA MP Premier Silver; Marriott Bonvoy LT Titanium Elite; Radisson; Avis PC
Posts: 35,255
I know of other FTers who have the Concierges check their seats.
Since there is not a designated 'seat wrangler' role in AC, why wouldn't we want someone, anyone from AC to check and if necessary deal with the problem preflight? It's their product, they sold it to us and if it's broke, they need to try to make it right.
Once the plane is up in the air our choices are a lot more limited. We need to have an SD that has a clue and hope that they can 'fix' the seat and/or that there is a spare seat available. Past that it gets uncomfortable for somebody. All the more reason for the preflight check.
My plan to mitigate my stay-flat exposure while still hitting SE is simple. I am redirecting at least half of my AC spend to other *A carriers and have so far been pretty successful - no deflated seats this year. But I have upcoming AC flights to FRA, FCO, TPE and SYD that could break that streak, so we will see.
The only thing I know for certain is that this year AC will earn about $30 - 40K less from me than last year. And that's not because I am flying less or sitting in the back. That amount is not enough to move the needle for them, but it's as proactive as I can get right now without resorting to unnatural acts.
Since there is not a designated 'seat wrangler' role in AC, why wouldn't we want someone, anyone from AC to check and if necessary deal with the problem preflight? It's their product, they sold it to us and if it's broke, they need to try to make it right.
Once the plane is up in the air our choices are a lot more limited. We need to have an SD that has a clue and hope that they can 'fix' the seat and/or that there is a spare seat available. Past that it gets uncomfortable for somebody. All the more reason for the preflight check.
My plan to mitigate my stay-flat exposure while still hitting SE is simple. I am redirecting at least half of my AC spend to other *A carriers and have so far been pretty successful - no deflated seats this year. But I have upcoming AC flights to FRA, FCO, TPE and SYD that could break that streak, so we will see.
The only thing I know for certain is that this year AC will earn about $30 - 40K less from me than last year. And that's not because I am flying less or sitting in the back. That amount is not enough to move the needle for them, but it's as proactive as I can get right now without resorting to unnatural acts.
Have to say, the process of discourse here has swayed my thinking some on the concierge checking the seat - particularly if AC has recommended that. I think it's asinine to require it and that the existing FAs already aboard aren't doing it, but it's not my call, and some interesting points are raised above on why one SHOULD engage the concierge.
My reaction to this point would likely have been different to the poster above had it not been included with some other comments.
Personally I won't be asking a concierge to do this for me - I feel capable of handling that part myself. Perhaps I need to engage a concierge if I board the plane and find a deflated seat and the SD is unwilling to change my seats, but I suspect in most cases the SD and I would be able to handle the issue between us.
My reaction to this point would likely have been different to the poster above had it not been included with some other comments.
Personally I won't be asking a concierge to do this for me - I feel capable of handling that part myself. Perhaps I need to engage a concierge if I board the plane and find a deflated seat and the SD is unwilling to change my seats, but I suspect in most cases the SD and I would be able to handle the issue between us.
And yes, the use of concierges is debatable, but it's up to the concierges to decide whether they are to assist, and if that's what the pax wants, then so be it
I remember the five/six years of weekly TATL/TPAC flights and every-other-day transcons before and after the DreamCabin went into service. If you include that some do this volume of flights and ULHs (300K plus AQM/year - at a point I was doing 400K-500K AQM/year), I would bet that anyone in my shoes would start to consider to engage the concierge to do a double check. Having said that, I've never engaged a concierge for such an issue but at the time, the problem wasn't prolific like it is now. I did get some park benches, but only advised the SD to log it, and to provide me with an extra duvet to sit on. I also never received the green forms at the time, and in hindsight I wish I had received them (didn't know I was entitled to them for a park bench)
But forget all of the above!
AC got us to where we're at now at this juncture. And yeah it sucks. Glad I'm in a flying lull right now. (ok, sorta
)
May 14, 2019, 3:37 pm
#1752
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE 2MM; UA MP Premier Silver; Marriott Bonvoy LT Titanium Elite; Radisson; Avis PC
Posts: 35,255
This whole thread made me think of something besides asking the concierge. Don’t they “clean” the plane between flights, especially with their larger aircrafts. Why don’t they just add to the protocol to check the seats for deflation and repair them prior to next flight?
but they don’t, which leads me to believe they don’t really seem to care about it. I’m also convinced that a lot of this goes unreported, especially by travelers who are not frequent biz class pax and just think the seat is what it is. Same goes for folks being upgraded, I mean, they’re just happy about the upgrade so may care less about that.
in retrospective, I probably shouldn’t of taken someone else’s seat and have the FD figure it out. But once again, I did as I was told and the concierge team never really checked the seat so felt it was like adding insulting to injury...
but they don’t, which leads me to believe they don’t really seem to care about it. I’m also convinced that a lot of this goes unreported, especially by travelers who are not frequent biz class pax and just think the seat is what it is. Same goes for folks being upgraded, I mean, they’re just happy about the upgrade so may care less about that.
in retrospective, I probably shouldn’t of taken someone else’s seat and have the FD figure it out. But once again, I did as I was told and the concierge team never really checked the seat so felt it was like adding insulting to injury...
None of this is arguably "catchable" in the short time frame that a "seat checker" has to check seats.
Of course, this only works with immediate park benches... so I guess better than nothing, but still not a catch-all.
May 14, 2019, 3:41 pm
#1753
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,347
Versus the 5 minutes for a concierge to get to the plane, 5 minutes to get back, and then 10 seconds on the seat. For one seat.
It makes a lot more sense to have the FAs do it.
But I wish they'd just fix it.
May 14, 2019, 3:44 pm
#1754
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE 2MM; UA MP Premier Silver; Marriott Bonvoy LT Titanium Elite; Radisson; Avis PC
Posts: 35,255
It takes what, 10 seconds per seat? That's 400 person-seconds. Or a little over 3 minutes if you get 2 FAs to do it. And there's negligible overhead because they're already on the plane.
Versus the 5 minutes for a concierge to get to the plane, 5 minutes to get back, and then 10 seconds on the seat. For one seat.
It makes a lot more sense to have the FAs do it.
But I wish they'd just fix it.
Versus the 5 minutes for a concierge to get to the plane, 5 minutes to get back, and then 10 seconds on the seat. For one seat.
It makes a lot more sense to have the FAs do it.
But I wish they'd just fix it.
Yes, you do have a point based on solely what you say above, but it just "ain't gonna happen" with the FAs being tasked to do this, along with all the other variables that you and others mention above about judging what a "deflated" seat really is, aside from the known and documented experiences here (including myself) that some seats deflate over a period of time.
But yeah, I wish they'd just fix it.
May 14, 2019, 8:17 pm
#1755
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: CBR
Programs: QF WP, AC*G
Posts: 1,223
This would work in many cases but you can also get the oddness of my seat on AC34 last Sunday. The base of the seat felt like a water bed with a fully inflated front part of the base but uninflated back part (so thighs were fully supported but the butt area was deflated). You’d not really be able to detect it as a park bench type feeling but it wasn’t right. Fortunately, resets worked and lasted about 4-5 hours.