shaner82

It's the grandmother. People that haven't been parents in 20-30 years tend to forget the little things.

It's as if nobody on this site has kids. Young kids can't hold it. When they say they have to go, they need to go immediately. Even if the cart could have been moved, that might not have been quick enough.

I'm sure all the pretentious people who can't stand the peasants being in their area will survive if a young child uses the bathroom a couple times on a flight.

longtimeflyin

The people in business class did not make a scene, rather the flight attendant was the one who spoke up to enforce a policy as part of executing his or her duty to protect the integrity of the business class product.

No one called anyone a peasant.

24left

EXCELLENT suggestions and I agree.

But it won't happen because we live in a happy semi-socialist collective. Despite Air Canada clearly selling different classes, no one wants to remind the Y pax that they are, well, Y pax. Thus the soft, delicate words in the AC printed materials etc.



Exactly. But those airlines and airports chose to have that set-up.
It allows the F and J pax to feel that they have paid for some exclusivity.


I do love how NH does it.

The curtain between J and F are closed at all times (except take-off and landing) and these nice cards are a gentle reminder to buzz off.

The J cabin curtains are closed and a similar blue sign hangs on them so Y pax understand.

All very civilized, but it will never happen on Air Canada

Of course, these signs would not be needed if some of your suggestions were implemented.

.

longtimeflyin

"I paid for a plane ticket and I have every right to use the facilities on this aircraft. This sort of signage is degrading and unfair."

(not my viewpoint but I can see this front and center on the CBC site)

RangerNS

There is currently a CBC commentator quoting some human rights treaty or something about discrimination.

*Sigh*, to them: one is allowed to discriminate based on spending (or not) money. And reality is allowed and always discriminate based on poor planning.

Once is an emergency. 3 times is fewer hours is normal. Not being able to deal with your own normal is your problem. 100% blame on grandmama.

longtimeflyin

Please re-read my post. I am very much on your side here and completely agree.

expert7700

They should install what United has on the upper deck of their 747s. Near the cockpit door / restroom entrance there is a metal wire / trip wire barrier that the FAs can deploy. I assume if a passenger disconnects or otherwise tampers with this security wire, that cabin crew are notified....

Looked to try to find a photo of this but my google skills are failing me today.

Best I could telp, it was either 'armed' and used because the flight deck door was going to open for the pilots to take a bio break. Or the flight attendant handling the upper deck was going to need to leave the upper deck unattended.

Could even electrify it, to give the pax a little jolt.

24left

Ouch (bolding mine)

"Tim Evans
So Grandma doesn't think to prepare in case toddler spills drink, has accident or the seatbelt sign is on when she really has to go. She doesn't think to ask the economy FA to get by the cart even though that's what other passengers do on every flight. Yet we are to beleive that this started with a "booking agent" who supposedly told her that those seats were closest to the bathroom. Funny she was unprepared and yet upon returning home the first thing she did was post on the FB group Air Passenger Rights Canada, whereby she was guided as to how to contact the media and try to get a free flight. Sounds like her priorities are skewed."

Melanie Gauss
If she didn't pay for business class, I guess I can see being turned away from the business class bathroom. I've been turned away from first class bathrooms before. You get what you pay for, and the whole world doesn't have to accommodate your little kid. It's also not necessary to whine all over the internet about it.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...says-1.4166122

RangerNS

Quoting doesn't imply disagreement. I'm extending the thought.

quantumofforce

The problem is poor parenting. I fly YYZ-HKG often and my child doesn't do that. We plan ahead, bring toys to entertain, teach her manners, and spend time with her so she doesn't disturb others.

I've seen loud, drunk, rude SE on airplanes, should we ban all SE? No, that's ridiculous.

WR Cage

(1) I would cut your years estimate in half. Let's just say that Grandma had a very eventful prom night and her daughter had a an equally eventful junior high prom night.

Given that Grandma is only 44 years young, it's probable the Grandma is more of a mother figure to her grand daughter.

Also my guesstimate, that Grandmas hubris over success at potty training got the better of her. Perhaps during the holiday trip she got the child potty trained over night and was determined to put the diaper days into the rear view mirror. However she didn't account for the rules of airplane flight.

(2) I have a kid and many other posters also have kid(s). It's our own experiences that are causing most of the lack of sympathy for the Grandma.

(3) for the reason that little kids have to go now that most parents prepare for the situation and especially don't set the kid up for failure (which is exactly what the Grandma did to the child).

(4) Except it was not just one person 2 times. It was one child with three attempts plus one I unassociated adult on a fourth attempt. Drink service had not concluded, so it's safe to assume this occurred within the first 1.5 hours of flight.

capedreamer

100+ posts debating whether Y passengers should be allowed to use J lavs. Gotta love this place.

FWIW, I strongly support the curtain + sign approach. Simple, unobtrusive, unobjectionable.

Will an exception still be made from time to time for real emergencies? Sure, and I have no issues with that.

My frustration is when carriers like AC don't announce or enforce anything in this regard consistently. Then you tend to see one person come up front, followed by another, and then another... Do I blame those pax? Not at all. I blame the airline / crew for not setting expectations upfront.

YEG_SE4Life

I love a happy, well behaved toddlers, anywhere, anytime. I also understand that toddlers can have a difficult maintaining that happy disposition. They are fascinating. In my mind, they can make a flight much more interesting.

I am a grandpa. That only means that I am on my second generation of raising these beautiful creatures. I did learn a lot from the first generation.

Perhaps the SD should have let them into the front lav. Maybe not. That is not the decision that forced the toddler to remain in wet panties.

VoodooYYC

There are a bunch of factors, the most prevalent of which is the utter cluelessness of "Grandma". Who would have thought someone who became a grandparent at 41 would be ill prepared for this trip?

I don't have kids, but even I know I wouldn't take my 3 year old nephew anywhere without at least one change of clothes. That's just basic common sense, which this lady apparently lacks any modicum of.

The other factor is the Rouge FA. I find that because of their youth, they tend to be sticklers for the rules, policy and procedure. I've been scolded for getting something out of the overhead bin in J while the plane was still at the gate, but the seatbelt sign was on, something that would rarely if ever happen on mainline. So, part of me is surprised that they even got up there to use the lav the first time at all.

But, the biggest reason we are talking about this at all is the victim culture that CBC won't stop propogating. Every yahoo kettle in the country reads these articles, and now any sin, real or imagined, gets publicized, and in substantially all cases, the alleged "victim" contributed to their own demise in some fashion, but that never seems to be mentioned. And I'd like to take up a collection to buy Gabor Luckas a one-way ticket to really anywhere that isn't here, and has no internet access at all. He is the absolute worst, as are many who deem themselves to be "advocates". True advocates don't need to bring attention to themesleves, unlike our media desperate friend.

maradori

When I first saw the sign idea a few pages back, I thought "nah AC will never do it ... they'd have to translate the sign in English and French!"

.... and then NH has a 4-language sign ...