ac777

I am apalled at UA's actions. They could hae handled it better. Other than that comment, I usually travel J on International flights, as does my family.
I decided none of us will fly LH as on a Business Class flight I was the only one who did not get treated like the rest. I called the in flight supervisor, sat him down beside me and told him that I thought that was discriminatory and my family or I will not fly LH again. My money, my choice. Since then we have avoided LH but do not see why I have to avoid all *A carriers.

24left

I'm not avoiding ALL *A carriers.

Some don't fly where I am headed and I'm not flying LO via WAW just because.
Others simply scare me.

I am not Star Alliance or oneworld. I don't have any interest in deciding who gets to be part of the hug-fest.

But I do get to decide who I fly with.

You made the decision not to fly LH based on your experiences. Others make their own choices.

I'm perfectly happy flying Air Canada when they deliver what I need. That's right. Me. The Customer.

And no one is going to fire UA from *A. At the end of all of this, UA is tainted (maybe only for 15 minutes). AC and the *A got a little mud on their windshields.
.

longtimeflyin

Saw this on the news about the passenger who was removed forcibly.

Dao, who went to medical school in Vietnam in the 1970s before moving to the U.S., has worked as a pulmonologist in Elizabethtown but was arrested in 2003 and eventually convicted of drug-related offenses after an undercover investigation, according to documents filed with the Kentucky Board of Medical Licensure last June.
As for Dao's history as a doctor in Kentucky, the medical licensure board documents allege that he was involved in fraudulent prescriptions for controlled substances and was sexually involved with a patient who used to work for his practice and assisted police in building a case against him.
Dao was convicted of multiple felony counts of obtaining drugs by fraud or deceit in November 2004 and was placed on five years of supervised probation in January 2005, according to the documents. He surrendered his medical license the next month.
The Kentucky Board of Medical Licensure permitted Dao to resume practicing medicine in 2015 under certain conditions.

http://www.courier-journal.com/story...ast/100318320/

ffsim

I am also not a lawyer, but I challenge you to find a definition of the word "boarding" in UA's contract of carriage. For all we know (as non-lawyers), this gentleman was removed prior to the completion of boarding and well within the scope of the contract he entered in with UA.

And that's what I find the most frustrating about this entire episode: in my eyes, it's so clearly abusive, uncalled-for and downright wrong and yet the company may actually be legally in the right.

I don't know how I would've reacted had I been the passenger, but I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I would've never let it escalate to that point had I been any UA or ORD employee involved in the ordeal. There were so many missed opportunities to defuse the situation.

I don't know how AC can "abandon" UA given the reliance of both airlines and indeed all the *A airlines on each other, but today's the first day I miss having US as a *A partner airline...

s0ssos

Do you also have a history of the flight attendants who interacted with him, or the LEOs who did?
Why not? Are they not relevant?

ffsim

So a doctor was yanked from his seat, had his face smashed into an armrest, and dragged out of the plane in a state of semi-consciousness to the shock and terror of fellow passengers and, ultimately, much of the world.

What exactly are you trying to suggest with those (alleged) details?

longtimeflyin

Just providing further information gleaned off of news sources that I believe have not been mentioned in this thread.

Non insinuating anything else.

canopus27

If you could explain how this is relevant in any way, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks.

CanRulez

Oh really?

YYZFlyboy

As very much a FF and someone who had actually worked in the industry for 15 years (on the security side), I cannot think of anything that would warrant such treatment of a passenger for such a trivial reason.

The security personnel and UA staff let this situation get out of hand and completely bungled it entirely as it unraveled.

I know there's many airline staff (AC included) thinking to themselves today how they would have handled it totally differently.

I also can't think of any police officer that I know (and know many in the business) that would manhandle a passenger under these circumstances just because of the incompetence and ego of some airline staff.

I've actually seen a similar situation at YYZ many years ago and the police were called. The officers just turned to the airline staff and told them - "you guys find a solution, we're not physically removing a passenger under these circumstances" - and the agents did find a solution. They just quietly found some other passengers that were willing to go (and offered them a very good deal).

This, in my opinion, will be costly for UA and will require a full and complete public apology, and likely some cash too.............

WR Cage

The above post raises some interesting legal questions.

I would be hesitant to go down the rabbit hole that the airline cannot use IDB provisions after the passenger has boarded. Like all private property owners, the airline has the right to invoke trespass at any time. Failure to follow the request to leave from the most senior person at the establishment (or their designate) and the local peace officers can be called to effect the trespass.

My hesitation is because the airlines might have a way to get around having to pay IDB compensation if it claimed that once boarded, the passenger cannot be IDB'd. The airline could board the passenger, subsequently realize they needed the seat for other purposes, effect a trespass charge, boot the passenger under trespass unless the pax agrees to take the next flight. No compensation is payable because the pax has past the point of IDB.

To bring this thread back onto AC and Canada. In Alberta the Trespass Act has a first offense fine of $2,000. As we all know the max IDB compensation in Canada is $800. Had this situation occured on an AC flight at YYC or YEG, the airline could give the pax their IDB compensation right before the Calgary Police hand the pax a ticket for $2,000. Pax is out of pocket $1,200 for their obstinate behaviour.

s0ssos

Until recently Canada was supposed a much more racially tolerant place. A lot has happened this past year (and it has shocked most Canadians). But I would still venture to say (and hopefully it is true) that in Canada there isn't the same amount of racial tension as in the US. And a lot of racism isn't conscious.

But I would doubt this would have happened in Canada. I feel Canadians are much more considerate (though maybe AC is an exception). I mean, I was in Vancouver and didn't have proper change, and the driver told me to relax, we'll get change for you.
In Seattle I saw someone get kicked off the bus because he didn't have change.

Bohemian1

And maybe that is the only good thing to come out of this horrible episode. Perhaps airline staff will reflect on this, what it can do to their customers and what it can do to their employer's brand (and possibly their livelihood) in the future. Let's hope.

24left

Someone started a thread on UA which asks a valid question

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...d-obvious.html

I would further ask, what can Air Canada do to make sure they don't become UA?

Badenoch

The problem with the video is we don't see what led up to the short clip.

I agree it was an excessive and unnecessary event with all parties at least partially at fault. Here's how I'd rank it:

UA: 25 per cent. Bad show to IDB to accommodate your personnel after the passenger is seated or to have not sweetened the compensation offer.

Chicago Aviation Security Officers: 60 per cent. Over-amped mall ninja thugs who couldn't manage the situation without excessive force. No wonder they don't carry firearms or Tasers and despite their requests will never be allowed to do so now.

Passenger: 15 per cent. When you get an instruction from the crew you can complain, whine, argue and curse but you will comply if they want you to badly enough. Also, it never pays to resist or fight with the police. You will lose.