Wpgjetse

I was thinking more of health reasons instead of taxes.

Wpgjetse

I think it is.

canadiancow

PREFERRED SEATS.

We're talking about more legroom. Preferred seats are a small surcharge.

Yes, you can also buy J for an extra $5000, but you don't need to spend $5000 to get the legroom you so desire.

CZAMFlyer

I don't think it was intended to be.

Were any preferred seats an option on the flight(s) in question? There are very few preferred seats on a 777; were they available? What was the price premium?

I'm guessing you don't know (neither do I), so let's stop this silly hypothetical banter. Also, what's hypothetical is whether flying caused/exacerbated any medical conditions, whether said condition might have occurred in a Y, PY or J seat, and what the ability or willingness is for the flyer in question (or any other traveler to be honest) to pony up extra money for extra space.

I quickly tire of online judgments passed by those who believe if people simply weren't so cheap/fat/out of shape, all their flying discomforts would magically disappear.

Wpgjetse

I don't know the %, but it is easy to see that pax are not willing to pay for preferred seats. I book my flights at the last min, and these seats are always avail.

ffsim

Thank you.

The infuriating thing when reading a thread like this isn't that someone may or may not have been injured, that airline seats are forever getting smaller, that comfort is constantly being diminished.... no, it's none of that.

It's that a community of supposed frequent flyers who all share the same airplanes, airport and hotels goes around passing judgement and look down on those unwilling or unable to afford the amenities that others take for granted. And then they laugh.

Disgusting.

rankourabu

Dont be discouraged by some ignorable noise.
It does not represent the whole forum (despite its frequency)

Wpgjetse

It is also a community of many standards. We also don't all pay the same prices. I also get tired of the entitlement. Yes, not everyone can afford J class, but preferred seat? If you can't afford this, maybe you can't afford the flight.

acysb87

Many have been discouraged and no longer post.

CZAMFlyer

Or in my case, take extended absences. Only to return and, against my better judgement, get lured into debates with people out to score points using airs of superiority, arrogance or ridicule.

I wish I could ask my FF-related questions and learn from others in person, over beers, rather than wading through endless congested threads polluted by reams of drivel.

eigenvector

Maybe the reason many infrequent flier pax don't buy preferred seats is that they assume the most basic option will not be something that may cause actual physical pain. Kind of like how when I go to the grocery store even if I buy the absolute cheapest bread I don't expect to find mold on it. After all, most molds are benign and just a cosmetic defect to the food product. 99.9% of the time you will not get sick from eating moldy bread. Likewise when I buy milk I don't bother checking if there is a +$0.50 up-charge to guarantee it hasn't curdled. I mean, if I can afford milk I can afford to pay a little more to be totally comfortable drinking it, right? You can also nearly always safely drink milk a few days past the expiry date. I don't even bother researching what the difference even is between different brands of food because I know whatever is on the shelf is, at minimum, safe to eat.

We operate under the assumption that in our society, products will meet basic minimum standards and those which have health hazards will either not be marketed at all, or come with obvious warnings and disclaimers. I don't bother to do due diligence when I buy a $20 microwave at Walmart to see if it actually meets safety standards. Whether I can afford to pay $25 or $30 or even $100 for a microwave is hardly relevant. The retailer, not me, has decided to sell a product at the $20 price point and it is their obligation, not mine, to ensure that it meets basic minimum standards.

Since airline seat pitch and width is currently not regulated by any legislation, let's not even talk about the CSA standards that ensure that microwave doesn't burn my house down. Consider a microwave with abnormally sharp edges. Perhaps it is cheaper to produce this microwave, so it is sold for $20 while the same one with the sharp edges rounded off is $25. The $25 unit is marketed as "no sharp edges", but the $20 unit does not say "very sharp edges which may injure". You will only find this out after you purchase and use it.

Would any small appliance OEM or retailer actually use this as a pricing/marketing strategy? No, because while it wouldn't be illegal, it's totally toxic to their brand and absolutely hostile to their customer, who instead of buying the $25 unit next time, will buy another brand and tell every person they meet to do the same.

In reality, markets do not operate on the basis of perfect information. ESPECIALLY not the airline market which has less pricing transparency that any other consumer product bar none. I mean, we have a wiki page on FlyerTalk just to figure out what configuration of 777 you're flying on! And you think it's the passenger who should be responsible for knowing which flights and seat types are and aren't comfortable when the airline does its utmost to hide that information?

I find it bizarre that one would heap all the responsibility upon the consumer for buying at a certain price point and zero upon the seller for offering a questionable product for sale and failing to adequately describe that product. It takes two to tango*, and AC is the one who refuses to invest in basic 1980s IT to actually tell you the differences in seat pitch between the seats on the airplane that you're actually going to fly on so you can make an informed decision.

If it's the pax's fault for failing to pay the upcharge for a reasonable seat, maybe AC should have a huge disclaimer when buying a 777 or 787 regular economy seat saying "WARNING: extremely uncomfortable, may cause lasting physical discomfort. Purchase a better seat for $50/100/whatever". Wait, they'd never do that because that's horrible PR. They want to maintain the marketing delusion that basic seats are comfortable, while blaming the passenger for not buying a better one if any complaint arises.



*pun intended

yulred

A U.S. Senator took it as far as a senate vote and lost 42-54. I don't think he or the other 41 senators voted that way for personal reasons. They know what their constituents want.

Canada is a laggard in all things aviation. But even laggards eventually move forward.

yulred

Then why not get rid of them altogether on the Airbus aircraft and improve legroom across the board, instead of giving them away as freebies to SEs and anyone who bought a tango fare ticket and showed up at the airport without selecting a seat?

yulred

Now, now. The posturing does add a comedic element. Think of it this way:

Marie Antoinette: "let them eat cake."

FTer1: "No, they were too cheap to buy the cake"

FTer2:"Yes, too cheap. This sense of entitlement sickens me. If they can't afford the cake, they shouldn't eat".

Meanwhile, outside the rarified air of FT, public discontent begins to take hold.

Dollars2Donuts

This whole argument is absolutely silly.

In the case of leg room and seat pitch, the market has made its' choice. If people would have been ok with paying 20% more to have 20% more room, that is how the planes would be designed. But no, people want the cheapest flight possible and therefor the airlines have to adjust to the model that the public asks for.

I find it completely and totally ludicrous that somebody could blame an airline for this health issue. I mean it doesn't even make sense. This is like somebody riding an elevator up 50 floors, and then experiencing vertigo that doesn't go away. Did the elevator cause the issue? Hell no, they were predisposed and the issue would have arisen at some other time.....just like this gentleman.

This isn't about right and wrong, this is a case that just doesn't make any sense. As has been stated many times here, I bet there are 100x more injuries of people driving to or from the airport than there are of people being injured by their damn seat.

What next? My seat is too small at Rogers Arena (hell yes, it is)? If I don't like it, I can turn in my seasons tickets or watch on television.

One last item....I am 6'1 and 220 pounds....I am 43 years old and not in great shape. In the last 18 months I have flown 140 legs, 100 in economy (before I had status), and I dealt with it.....and easily. You get into your damn seat, you occupy your mind with something other than the tight squeeze and you go about your day.

And guess what? If you don't like it....there are other ways to travel. If you don't like steak, don't eat at The Keg, if you don't like naked women, don't go to Brandy's (Vancouver) and if you need more room than an airline has for you, or you cannot afford J....rent a car, take a boat or get on a friggin' train.

This whole conversation is absolutely ridiculous.

D2D