payam81

Plenty people suffer consequences due to nature of their job. Soldiers/First responders often suffer from PTSD. Do they deserve it? No, but it is a choice to go in that line of work.

montezume

With this attitude, then we should remove minimum wage and all workplace safety regulations. In fact, aircraft maintenance regulation should be scrapped - airlines with higher crash rates will suffer from less bookings and the market will reward those with better safety rates.

superangrypenguin

payam81 is completely right. Every job has its downsides. Office workers suffer from shoulder and back pain. Construction workers suffer from the same. Emergency services workers suffer from back pain, shoulder pain and PTSD. (and other things, but you get the point)

Every job has its negative repercussions. No one deserves a good job. Want the job of your dreams, work for it.

So going back to the subject matter at hand, if one doesn't like their employers' policy of putting them in Y? Don't work for them or find a different job.

Air Canada does not owe you a comfortable seat.

Stranger

You guys are missing a key point: the airlines are providing a product that may be unsafe because that's what the flying public wants. By and large, tango flyers only care about one thing, price. If the airlines treat them too well, obviously they must have overpaid.

With most of us here belonging in a small minority with different views.

Of course a reasonable employer should have recognized that sardine can class is becoming a health issue. But it sure is convenient to look the other way.

One could argue that it's time for the government to step in. But alas that won't work either as long as some governments don't so that there remain sardine can options, for instance flying through the US.

montezume

I'm sure other industries would love to be able to act in this same manner. I should start a restaurant and save on costs by using expired food and not cleaning the kitchen, because consumers always want lower prices. At some point, the government needs to step in and implement regulations. Unfortunately, this won't happen in Canada. What's likely to happen is that the US will implement regulations, and Canadian airlines will have to follow.

Wpgjetse

No, this is not about safety, but entitlement.

superangrypenguin

That is what restaurants do. That's what grocery chains do.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/loblaw...ring-1.3306395

Governments can try and step in, but if the consumer wants something for dirt cheap, this is the result.

So I'm using your analogy. The Loblaws of the world [expletive] around with their food. AC's Y seat is the result of what the consumer is willing to pay.

Wpgjetse

You are missing the point completely. Entitlement is not safety. Basically you are saying that the government should regulate car seats, because leather seat are more comfortable than your vinyl seat and some "expert" has said the discomfort is bad for your health. There was a option, but why pay for it, when the government should make the company give it to me for free.

As I said at the start, this thread is based on entitlement, because most of the people wanting larger seat, will not pay the extra price, drive to the US for cheaper tickets and fly on the smaller seat they dislike. Them write into FT or CBC that we can't fly out of CDN because the fares are to high.

grandgourmand

I'm going to go with "let the market decide" on this one. People want cheap fares, airlines need to make money, something has to give. I'm against government intervention that would force airlines to change how they design their product, or however you want to call it.

But I'm also in the "let the market decide" camp in terms of restrictions on carriers operating in the country. Let the ME3 have more access. Alas, their Y products are equally terrible (I believe...actually did a short haul on EK Y and it was painful). But eventually more competition will lead to some players trying to gain an edge...either by making Y more livable, or lowering the price on PY or J products.

ffsim

+1

So predictable

No one here is asking for a "comfortable" seat; that's far too subjective because, as canadiancow likes to point out, we're all different. There's no one-seat(bread)-fits-all solution.

Airlines went 10-across to increase revenue, not drop prices. They get to sell more seats versus 9-across. Heck, Air Canada introduced rouge for the same purpose. They generally didn't touch prices on rouged routes. As a matter of fact, their executives came on this very board and explained that rouge was a way for them to reduce costs and justify operating routes which otherwise didn't meet their required level of profitability.

They did it to make more money.

Airlines are making denser planes to make more money.

Customers are angry because the seats are too small. They don't think they're entitled to bigger seats or more comfortable seats; they're pushing back because it's obvious that the airlines are going too far in making planes more dense.

You may never notice this from high atop your J perch, but it's a real problem for the vast majority of the occupants on every. single. one. of your flights.

payam81

I'm simply stating the facts so not sure how you come up with your points based on those facts.

Work safety regulations are pretty effective in dealing with immediate and/or critical dangers but dealing with chronic health concerns is far more diffcult.

For example, it's a fact that human skin can get burnt from boiling water, no matter if the person is big, small, tall or short. In this case it's very easy to regulate work safety rules to prevent injury due to boiling water and all workers will benefit.

But how do you regulate a seat size? Whatever size you end up standardizing, it will end up cocering a segment of population only. Those who fall above or below the deaign refrence would still stay uncomfortable. On the other hand, seats are regulated to whit stand minimum structural strenght requirements that will benefit all travellers.

Bonaventure

I'm quite fond of the CBC, but the people behind this story should be fired. Such drivel.

quantumofforce

Talking about shoes, I know lots of women that pay more for shoes that are less comfortable, but look 'hot' (they're word not mine).

quantumofforce

People would drive south of the border and fly via the US in Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver

YOWgary

So the what, 4,000 people who fly YVR-YYZ each day are going to drive to Bellingham, fly to Buffalo, rent a car and drive to Toronto?