Sep 19, 2017, 10:25 am
Last edit by: 24left
Jan 18 2021 TC issues Airworthiness Directive for the 737 MAX
Link to post https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32976892-post4096.html
Cabin photos
Post 976 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29534462-post976.html
Post 1300 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29780203-post1300.html
Cabin Layout
Interior Specs can be found here https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/fly/onboard/fleet.html
- Window seats may feel narrower to come as the armrests are placed "into" the "curvature" of the cabin.
- Seats with no windows feel even more narrower as there is no space created by the curvature of window.
- All bulkhead seats have very limited legroom.
- Seats 15A, 16A, 16F, 17A and 17F have limited windows.
- Exit rows 19 and 20 have more legroom than regular preferred seats.
Routes
The 737 MAX is designated to replace the A320-series. Based on announcements and schedule updates, the following specific routes will be operated by the 737 MAX in future:
YYZ-LAX (periodic flights)
YYZ-SNN (new route)
YUL-DUB (new route)
YYZ/YUL-KEF (replacing Rouge A319)
YYT-LHR (replacing Mainline A319)
YHZ-LHR (replacing Mainline B767)
Hawaii Routes YVR/YYC (replacing Rouge B767)
Many domestic trunk routes (YYZ, YVR, YUL, YYC) now operated by 7M8, replacing A320 family
Link to post https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32976892-post4096.html
Cabin photos
Post 976 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29534462-post976.html
Post 1300 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29780203-post1300.html
Cabin Layout
Interior Specs can be found here https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/fly/onboard/fleet.html
- Window seats may feel narrower to come as the armrests are placed "into" the "curvature" of the cabin.
- Seats with no windows feel even more narrower as there is no space created by the curvature of window.
- All bulkhead seats have very limited legroom.
- Seats 15A, 16A, 16F, 17A and 17F have limited windows.
- Exit rows 19 and 20 have more legroom than regular preferred seats.
Routes
The 737 MAX is designated to replace the A320-series. Based on announcements and schedule updates, the following specific routes will be operated by the 737 MAX in future:
YYZ-LAX (periodic flights)
YYZ-SNN (new route)
YUL-DUB (new route)
YYZ/YUL-KEF (replacing Rouge A319)
YYT-LHR (replacing Mainline A319)
YHZ-LHR (replacing Mainline B767)
Hawaii Routes YVR/YYC (replacing Rouge B767)
Many domestic trunk routes (YYZ, YVR, YUL, YYC) now operated by 7M8, replacing A320 family
Air Canada Selects Boeing 737 MAX to Renew Mainline Narrowbody Fleet
Mar 11, 2019, 7:04 am
#1696
Join Date: Sep 2005
Programs: AC MM E50 , Former SPG, now Marriott LT Plat
Posts: 6,261
@ridefar
so when AirCanada does a last minute aircraft swap and you won’t likely notice until you actually board the aircraft if your seat has not been reassigned so no pre-notice, and the aircraft parked in a way not evident from the terminal, will you deboard, possibly with checked baggage that would delay everybody else ?
I booked my kids at Xmas to fly YYZ-PBI-YYZ, and when I saw that both flights were on 737MAX, I cancelled and rebooked them on A320s.
Why would anyone want to fly a plane that tries repeatedly to over-ride the pilots?
Mar 11, 2019, 7:21 am
#1697
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: YYT
Programs: AC E35k, HHonors Silver
Posts: 743
Flying from YYT, particularly TATL, one doesn't have a choice but take the MAX. Even routeing via YYZ and a 777/787 across the pond, could mean flying 3.5hrs in a MAX to YYZ.
As a frequent TATL flyer, mostly in the MAX these days I'd be lying if I didn't say that recent events don't give pause for thought. I have no immediate travel plans but in the summer the whole family are going on WJ via YHZ which is a MAX. I hope that there is some resolution before then.
As a frequent TATL flyer, mostly in the MAX these days I'd be lying if I didn't say that recent events don't give pause for thought. I have no immediate travel plans but in the summer the whole family are going on WJ via YHZ which is a MAX. I hope that there is some resolution before then.
Mar 11, 2019, 7:30 am
#1698
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC SEMM / HH Diamond
Posts: 3,163
I find it fascinating that some folk here are concerned about the (perceived) risk of flying on a 737-Max, but not at all concerned about the (perceived) risk of using an inflatable mattress onboard in the case of a deflated 777 J seat ... while others are the exact opposite; concerned about the (perceived) risk of using an inflatable mattress onboard in the case of a deflated 777 J seat, but not at all concerned about the (perceived) risk of flying on a 737-Max.
I choose not to name anyone here, as my point is not to pick on individuals - but just to observe that it's obvious that everyone has their own perception about what is safe, and what is not.
For the record: I'm bringing my mattress with me on AC 28 tomorrow, and you couldn't pay me enough to step on a 737-Max right now.
I choose not to name anyone here, as my point is not to pick on individuals - but just to observe that it's obvious that everyone has their own perception about what is safe, and what is not.
For the record: I'm bringing my mattress with me on AC 28 tomorrow, and you couldn't pay me enough to step on a 737-Max right now.
Mar 11, 2019, 7:54 am
#1699
Join Date: Jan 2012
Programs: AC E50K, MM, BA, Delta, PriorityClub Platinum, Marriott Gold.
Posts: 468
AC must ground all 737 MAX, so should FAA. IF a plane fights with manual control of a plane against a pilot it’s inherently unsafe! Imagine if your car took over your steering wheel and steered it into oncoming traffic. Would you drive it again?!
It also shows the idiocy and greed of AC putting all bets on cramped poorly designed 737 Max rather than A320 Neo or at least splitting it.
It also shows the idiocy and greed of AC putting all bets on cramped poorly designed 737 Max rather than A320 Neo or at least splitting it.
Mar 11, 2019, 8:02 am
#1700
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: YYZ most of the time
Programs: AC SE100K MM, Princess Elite
Posts: 3,921
AC must ground all 737 MAX, so should FAA. IF a plane fights with manual control of a plane against a pilot it’s inherently unsafe! Imagine if your car took over your steering wheel and steered it into oncoming traffic. Would you drive it again?!
It also shows the idiocy and greed of AC putting all bets on cramped poorly designed 737 Max rather than A320 Neo or at least splitting it.
It also shows the idiocy and greed of AC putting all bets on cramped poorly designed 737 Max rather than A320 Neo or at least splitting it.
Mar 11, 2019, 8:04 am
#1702
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: YYC
Programs: Air Canada SE100K, Westjet Platinum, Marriott Platinum Elite, NEXUS
Posts: 144
You can’t just ground 24 aircraft without a contingency (unless there is an imminent danger). Despite the panic, there is no imminent danger. However, I believe more groundings are inevitable, even if the airlines choose to do so simply to demonstrate their concern publicly, and pressure Boeing.
In AC’s case, if they decide to ground the 737s, they need to reposition A32X aircraft, cancel some flights, add some wide body capacity to cover some of those flights (such as Vancouver - Hawaii Max flights ). 24 aircraft out of the fleet will have a significant impact on operations.
I am certain Air Canada has just about finalized their plans. I believe WestJet has done the same. I suspect both AC and WJ will announce the groundings within hours of each other (if they choose to do so).
In AC’s case, if they decide to ground the 737s, they need to reposition A32X aircraft, cancel some flights, add some wide body capacity to cover some of those flights (such as Vancouver - Hawaii Max flights ). 24 aircraft out of the fleet will have a significant impact on operations.
I am certain Air Canada has just about finalized their plans. I believe WestJet has done the same. I suspect both AC and WJ will announce the groundings within hours of each other (if they choose to do so).
Mar 11, 2019, 8:09 am
#1703
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Programs: OWEmerald; STARGold; BonvoyPlat; IHGPlat/Amb; HiltonGold; A|ClubPat; AirMilesPlat
Posts: 38,186
You do raise an interesting question about how people who really don't want to fly on a 737 MAX will react if there is a swap. But, although ridefar will have to speak for him/herself, I think you have poked at the relatively infrequent situation compared to what I suspect ridefar was getting at - the zero cost avoidance. I can take numerous flights YYZ-YVR. Whereas previously I might have taken the 11:00 MAX, maybe now I take the 10:00 flight, or the 12:00 flight - both of which are 321s. There may still be a cost to that decision - perhaps it will become easier to get an upgrade on the MAX versus the 321s if more than a few people adopt this approach.
Mar 11, 2019, 8:27 am
#1705
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Toronto
Programs: AC SE100K, Emerald Exec, HHG
Posts: 631
That basically constitutes the entire AC fleet. Every FBW commercial aircraft today is designed to override pilots if it determines un-safe commands. AF447 is a prime example. We also don't know if the pilots attempted to over-ride the FMS, that is speculation. In most cases the information provided to pilots is what typically leads to errors and crashs whereby either the information is erroneous, or the pilots mis-interpret the data, or the pilots are too slow to respond.
Mar 11, 2019, 8:45 am
#1707
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Halifax
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Lifetime Platinum Elite. NEXUS
Posts: 4,569
The last mild storm in YYZ at the top of the month was exasperated by 32x fleet constraints, I think at one time with 5 AOG. No reason to believe they were unsafe, or required more than a couple of hours of maintenance each, but the mainline schedule is red lined.
I can't see how grounding the MAX fleet would not have massive logistical problems.
If they are deemed unsafe, I'm sure AC will do the right thing, but if they only had accepted a couple of A/C then the just-to-be-safe vs annoyance calculation would be very different.
I can't see how grounding the MAX fleet would not have massive logistical problems.
If they are deemed unsafe, I'm sure AC will do the right thing, but if they only had accepted a couple of A/C then the just-to-be-safe vs annoyance calculation would be very different.
Mar 11, 2019, 8:49 am
#1708
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 6,222
There is a "Mayday" episode called "Who's in Contol?" detailing several instances of the plane overiding the pilot.
Last edited by KenHamer; Mar 11, 2019 at 8:59 am
Mar 11, 2019, 8:52 am
#1709
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 6,222
Thus far 102 737-MAX (out of a reported 350 delivered) are currently grounded by regulators or voluntarily.
96 in China (list from @juliuswong on airliners.net), 4 in Ethiopia, and 2 in Grand Cayman.
100% of the 737maxes in each of the following fleets:
Ethiopian - 4
Grand Cayman - 2
Joy Air- 1
Air China- 15
Fuzhou Airlines- 2
China Southern- 24
China Eastern- 3
Kunming- 2
Lucky Air- 3
Hainan Airlines- 11
Okay Airways- 2
Shandong Airlines- 7
Shanghai Airlines- 11
Shenzhen Airlines- 5
Xiamen Airlines- 10
Air Canada is not on the list yet, but you won't find me on one. While airline travel is low risk, I'll take an old 767 or Airbus over a 737 max.. On airliners.net someone calculated that the 737NG has 2000x less fatalities per thousand takeoffs than the 737MAX.
96 in China (list from @juliuswong on airliners.net), 4 in Ethiopia, and 2 in Grand Cayman.
100% of the 737maxes in each of the following fleets:
Ethiopian - 4
Grand Cayman - 2
Joy Air- 1
Air China- 15
Fuzhou Airlines- 2
China Southern- 24
China Eastern- 3
Kunming- 2
Lucky Air- 3
Hainan Airlines- 11
Okay Airways- 2
Shandong Airlines- 7
Shanghai Airlines- 11
Shenzhen Airlines- 5
Xiamen Airlines- 10
Air Canada is not on the list yet, but you won't find me on one. While airline travel is low risk, I'll take an old 767 or Airbus over a 737 max.. On airliners.net someone calculated that the 737NG has 2000x less fatalities per thousand takeoffs than the 737MAX.
Mar 11, 2019, 8:59 am
#1710
Formerly known as newbie elite
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: YUL
Programs: IHG Diamond Ambassador, Accor Platinum, AC50K
Posts: 2,927
AC must ground all 737 MAX, so should FAA. IF a plane fights with manual control of a plane against a pilot it’s inherently unsafe! Imagine if your car took over your steering wheel and steered it into oncoming traffic. Would you drive it again?!
It also shows the idiocy and greed of AC putting all bets on cramped poorly designed 737 Max rather than A320 Neo or at least splitting it.
It also shows the idiocy and greed of AC putting all bets on cramped poorly designed 737 Max rather than A320 Neo or at least splitting it.
Until FAA/EASA does the same China grounding them has as much to do with Huawei than safety.
I do share the concerns of some experts questioning the original 737 FAA certification applying to a 7M8, the two don't have much in common anymore.
And if you really need to be a nervous Nelly, the 7M8 crashes were both in airlines where pilots did the quick transition from a previous 737 model (kind of like when AC pilots go between A319/320/321). AC pilots are transitioning from Airbus so get full conversion course. I don't believe any of that matters, just applying that logic (speculating on two so far unrelated incidents) to the fullest.