Sep 19, 2017, 10:25 am
Last edit by: 24left
Jan 18 2021 TC issues Airworthiness Directive for the 737 MAX
Link to post https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32976892-post4096.html
Cabin photos
Post 976 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29534462-post976.html
Post 1300 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29780203-post1300.html
Cabin Layout
Interior Specs can be found here https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/fly/onboard/fleet.html
- Window seats may feel narrower to come as the armrests are placed "into" the "curvature" of the cabin.
- Seats with no windows feel even more narrower as there is no space created by the curvature of window.
- All bulkhead seats have very limited legroom.
- Seats 15A, 16A, 16F, 17A and 17F have limited windows.
- Exit rows 19 and 20 have more legroom than regular preferred seats.
Routes
The 737 MAX is designated to replace the A320-series. Based on announcements and schedule updates, the following specific routes will be operated by the 737 MAX in future:
YYZ-LAX (periodic flights)
YYZ-SNN (new route)
YUL-DUB (new route)
YYZ/YUL-KEF (replacing Rouge A319)
YYT-LHR (replacing Mainline A319)
YHZ-LHR (replacing Mainline B767)
Hawaii Routes YVR/YYC (replacing Rouge B767)
Many domestic trunk routes (YYZ, YVR, YUL, YYC) now operated by 7M8, replacing A320 family
Link to post https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32976892-post4096.html
Cabin photos
Post 976 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29534462-post976.html
Post 1300 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29780203-post1300.html
Cabin Layout
Interior Specs can be found here https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/fly/onboard/fleet.html
- Window seats may feel narrower to come as the armrests are placed "into" the "curvature" of the cabin.
- Seats with no windows feel even more narrower as there is no space created by the curvature of window.
- All bulkhead seats have very limited legroom.
- Seats 15A, 16A, 16F, 17A and 17F have limited windows.
- Exit rows 19 and 20 have more legroom than regular preferred seats.
Routes
The 737 MAX is designated to replace the A320-series. Based on announcements and schedule updates, the following specific routes will be operated by the 737 MAX in future:
YYZ-LAX (periodic flights)
YYZ-SNN (new route)
YUL-DUB (new route)
YYZ/YUL-KEF (replacing Rouge A319)
YYT-LHR (replacing Mainline A319)
YHZ-LHR (replacing Mainline B767)
Hawaii Routes YVR/YYC (replacing Rouge B767)
Many domestic trunk routes (YYZ, YVR, YUL, YYC) now operated by 7M8, replacing A320 family
Air Canada Selects Boeing 737 MAX to Renew Mainline Narrowbody Fleet
. Assuming I ever get to go there either. 
Mar 11, 2019, 2:22 pm
#1742
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YYC
Posts: 23,808
MONTREAL -- Canada's two largest airlines say they are confident in the safety of the Boeing 737 aircraft after a fatal crash on Sunday involving an Ethiopian Airlines flight.
The accident, which killed all 157 aboard the Boeing 737 Max 8, raised concerns over parallels to the crash of a Lion Air jet that plunged into the Java Sea last October, killing 189 people.
Air Canada says in an email its 24 Max 8 aircraft have performed "excellently" and met safety and reliability standards.
In response to concerns raised by social media users, WestJet Airlines Ltd. tweeted Monday that it is not grounding any of its 13 Max 8s, and is "working with Boeing to ensure the continued safe operation of our Max fleet."
The accident, which killed all 157 aboard the Boeing 737 Max 8, raised concerns over parallels to the crash of a Lion Air jet that plunged into the Java Sea last October, killing 189 people.
Air Canada says in an email its 24 Max 8 aircraft have performed "excellently" and met safety and reliability standards.
In response to concerns raised by social media users, WestJet Airlines Ltd. tweeted Monday that it is not grounding any of its 13 Max 8s, and is "working with Boeing to ensure the continued safe operation of our Max fleet."
As long as they keep them flying, they have no real choice but to say that though. But given the number of airlines that are grounding them, surely they must be doing some soul-searching? As to "working with Boeing..." I am not so sure it's the right thing to say at this point.
Mar 11, 2019, 2:34 pm
#1743
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YYC
Posts: 23,808
Meanwhile 'The Air Canada Pilots Association, the union for Air Canada and Air Canada Rouge pilots, sent out a statement urging Transport Canada "to take proactive action to ensure the safety of the Canadian travelling public."' However Garneau supports the airlines's position.
Mar 11, 2019, 2:39 pm
#1744
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 53
The Max is the first airliner since the BAC 111 that is not inherently stable throughout its operation envelope. Because of its larger engines, a proper design would have entailed redesigning the horizontal stabilizer. Which Boeing demed too expensive; instead they implemented a software fix, more or less a bandaid solution called MCAS. It appears that in the Lionair case because of a single faulty signal from an angle of attack probe, the MCAS pushed the nose down until the plane hit the ground.
The issue is specific to the max. Does not affect earlier 737s.
I do not believe for a cleansheet design, any manufacturer would even consider building an airliner that is not inherently stable throughout the envelope. The case of the BAC-111 and the deep stall issue first occurred a long time ago when things were quite different, and the issue was discovered way after the plane entered in service. In the case of the max though, it was purely an economic decision, however dubious technically. To me that's wrong.
BTW last time I was on a max was less than three weeks ago. Only flight that day between Olbia and MXP, so no real choice except flying to LIN. So yes, while I did not like it, I bit the bullet.
The issue is specific to the max. Does not affect earlier 737s.
I do not believe for a cleansheet design, any manufacturer would even consider building an airliner that is not inherently stable throughout the envelope. The case of the BAC-111 and the deep stall issue first occurred a long time ago when things were quite different, and the issue was discovered way after the plane entered in service. In the case of the max though, it was purely an economic decision, however dubious technically. To me that's wrong.
BTW last time I was on a max was less than three weeks ago. Only flight that day between Olbia and MXP, so no real choice except flying to LIN. So yes, while I did not like it, I bit the bullet.
AC erred greatly in purchasing this inferior plane, but it all boils down into the very last cent they can cut, nevermind passenger comfort.
Mar 11, 2019, 3:01 pm
#1745
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: YCM
Programs: Aeroplan, Marriot, Hilton, IHG, P25K
Posts: 129
Meanwhile 'The Air Canada Pilots Association, the union for Air Canada and Air Canada Rouge pilots, sent out a statement urging Transport Canada "to take proactive action to ensure the safety of the Canadian travelling public."' However Garneau supports the airlines's position.
Maybe a year or two from now the issue will be resolved and defined but until then Boeing is dealing with protecting liability of their exposure.
Let's hope the software patches required are introduced asap and liability is dealt with afterwards.
Mar 11, 2019, 3:01 pm
#1746
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: YYJ
Posts: 4,137
Passenger comfort has absolutely no bearing in this context in the selection of the aircraft manufacturer.
Mar 11, 2019, 3:21 pm
#1747
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YYC
Posts: 23,808
Give me a break on such corporate nonsense, there has been next to no intra corporate communications in the past months on potential issues with software design issues that are likely to affect unknowing pilots and the traveling public safety.
Maybe a year or two from now the issue will be resolved and defined but until then Boeing is dealing with protecting liability of their exposure.
Let's hope the software patches required are introduced asap and liability is dealt with afterwards.
Maybe a year or two from now the issue will be resolved and defined but until then Boeing is dealing with protecting liability of their exposure.
Let's hope the software patches required are introduced asap and liability is dealt with afterwards.
Mar 11, 2019, 3:35 pm
#1748
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: YCM
Programs: Aeroplan, Marriot, Hilton, IHG, P25K
Posts: 129
It is disgusting liability overrides safety
Mar 11, 2019, 3:42 pm
#1749
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: YYG
Programs: airlines and hotels and rental cars - oh my!
Posts: 3,000
Considering how far the present-day Max has evolved from the original B-737 design from *cough* 1964, it does beg the question of how much more modification the airframe can handle without needing a full clean-sheet replacement. In the ensuing 55 years we've changed engines, wings, stabilizers, added various fuselage plugs and extensions, all of which has to change the balance of the plane in multitude ways. In real terms, the Max may as well be an updated DC-8.
Just for fun, here's a B737-200 cockpit ....
B737-200
And an image of the front office in the Max.
B737-Max8
Wow indeed.
Just for fun, here's a B737-200 cockpit ....
B737-200
And an image of the front office in the Max.
B737-Max8
Wow indeed.
Mar 11, 2019, 4:34 pm
#1752
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Programs: AC*SE100K 1MM, Little Lebowski Urban Achiever
Posts: 735
Wow with AC pilots release and the item below, this just got into the realm of the bizarre. Maybe my 7:00AM Monday flight is in jeopardy.
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens...pert-1.5051464
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens...pert-1.5051464
Mar 11, 2019, 5:04 pm
#1753
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: YVR, HNL
Programs: AS 75k, UA peon, BA Bronze, AC E50k, Marriott Plat, HH Diamond, Fairmont Plat (RIP)
Posts: 7,834
AC is still holding fast to not allowing any fee waivers for changes or cancelations. I am booked to fly with an elderly friend on a Max in about a month. Sadly for her, a friend of a family member was on the ET plane. She is a nervous flyer anyway and this has put her over the edge and she says she doesn’t want to fly ever again, and most definitely not on this aircraft. At 75, I suspect she means it. I called AC this morning and they said basically too bad. I tried HUCA and got a more sympathetic agent who has escalated to Customer Care to see if they will allow us to cancel for a refund as even a credit will be useless. I am not holding my breath but hopefully the circumstances may soften their stance. If not, my friend is prepared to lose the whole thing rather than fly, although I would hate for that to happen. I suspect our chances would be better if they did decide to ground the fleet so I am selfishly hoping more experts come forward and publicly put pressure on AC to do so.
Mar 11, 2019, 5:07 pm
#1754
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SJC/YUL
Programs: DL PM, Marriott Gold
Posts: 3,878
Correct. Given the lack of facts at this moment, shouldn't we err on the side of caution?
Mar 11, 2019, 5:08 pm
#1755
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YYC
Posts: 23,808
AC is still holding fast to not allowing any fee waivers for changes or cancelations. I am booked to fly with an elderly friend on a Max in about a month. Sadly for her, a friend of a family member was on the ET plane. She is a nervous flyer anyway and this has put her over the edge and she says she doesn’t want to fly ever again, and most definitely not on this aircraft. At 75, I suspect she means it. I called AC this morning and they said basically too bad. I tried HUCA and got a more sympathetic agent who has escalated to Customer Care to see if they will allow us to cancel for a refund as even a credit will be useless. I am not holding my breath but hopefully the circumstances may soften their stance. If not, my friend is prepared to lose the whole thing rather than fly, although I would hate for that to happen. I suspect our chances would be better if they did decide to ground the fleet so I am selfishly hoping more experts come forward and publicly put pressure on AC to do so.