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Air Canada rouge, a leisure airline

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Old May 5, 2014, 8:21 pm
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: Arcanum
Flights operated by Air Canada rouge

NOTE: Rouge Wifi information can be found here
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-c...l#post28448087

Dates in brackets indicate planned start of rouge service (either as a new route or replacing mainline service). ML placed before a date indicates the date that service is reverting to mainline.

All Airbus A319/A321 service is in the new Premium Rouge configuration with 2x2J seats. All other routes are Boeing 767-300ER aircraft in a 24J/258Y layout.

Airport codes in blue indicate that these routes are Boeing 767-300ER aircraft for all services.
Airport codes in red indicate that these routes are split between Boeing 767-300ER and Airbus services.
Airport codes in black indicate that these routes are Airbus aircraft for all services.

Routes are organized based on the established rouge bases of YYZ, YUL, YYC, and YVR

*Seasonal Summer Service

YYZ
Canada
YQT YQY YXX YLW YYG (02MAY-OCT) YDF YQB YQM (01MAY19) YFC (01JUL19)

USA
MCO TPA LAS FLL HNL SRQ RSW SAN PHX MIA PSP (14DEC16)

Mexico
CUN PVR SJD

Caribbean
KIN NAS LIR GND MBJ AZS CCC CUR HUX PUJ POP SKB SJO SXM LRM HOG SNU UVF VRA BGI (07JAN) POS (21DEC16)

Europe
ATH BCN EDI VCE MAN LIS PRG BUD GLA LGW

Central and South America
LIM BOG PTY

YUL
USA
LAS MCO FLL PBI TPA MIA

Mexico
CUN MEX PVR (18NOV16)

Caribbean
ZSA CCC HOG PUJ SNU PLS POP PAP NAS (17JAN) PTP

Europe
FCO ATH BCN NCE VCE

Central and South America
SJO (22DEC16)

Africa
CMN

YYC
Canada
YHZ* YHM (2016)

USA
LAS PHX (winter only - PHX AC Express in summer)

YVR
USA
LAS HNL OGG PHX PSP KOA SAN (02JUN)

Mexico
CUN PVR

Asia
KIX

Europe
DUB LGA KEF


What to Do If Your Flight Has Been Rouged According to the AC Rep "Air Canada Altitude": call AC Reservations, cancel and get a refund.
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Air Canada rouge, a leisure airline

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Old Mar 22, 2015, 7:47 am
  #4741  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Programs: AC-E50. Marriott Plat
Posts: 313
online checkin question on Rouge
Hey I haven't been able to find the answer to this, sorry if covered elsewhere. I will be on my first ever Rouge flight to MCO tomorrow. OLCI does not ask me about luggage? As SE do I still get free luggage on rouge?
dirkster is offline  
Old Mar 22, 2015, 8:04 am
  #4742  
Original Member
 
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Canada
Programs: AC SE 2MM, HH Dd, SPG; IC Pl/A; AA; DL
Posts: 14,336
Originally Posted by dirkster
Hey I haven't been able to find the answer to this, sorry if covered elsewhere. I will be on my first ever Rouge flight to MCO tomorrow. OLCI does not ask me about luggage? As SE do I still get free luggage on rouge?
Usually asks--yes you get free luggage . . . Are you flying on a reward ticket or paid?
BlondeBomber is offline  
Old Mar 22, 2015, 11:26 am
  #4743  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Programs: AC-E50. Marriott Plat
Posts: 313
It is a paid ticket. I was not prompted during OLCI to indicated how may bags to check in.
dirkster is offline  
Old Mar 22, 2015, 2:57 pm
  #4744  
Original Member
 
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Canada
Programs: AC SE 2MM, HH Dd, SPG; IC Pl/A; AA; DL
Posts: 14,336
I have been prompted on reward and paid flights on Rouge for OLCI, but always "business class", always using the website and not a mobile app. AC IT hiccup or mobile app? Who knows--anyway you get free luggage even if the seat is not comfortable.
BlondeBomber is offline  
Old Mar 27, 2015, 9:07 am
  #4745  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 73
Why is Rogue not significantly cheaper than mainline?
I have been searching European destinations, and looking for cheap tickets.
I find Rogue prices identical to mainline prices, with smaller pitches.
What is the point of sitting on Rogue?

BTW, Air Transat is cheaper usually by a $100+ margin.
researcher1005 is offline  
Old Mar 27, 2015, 9:08 am
  #4746  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MLL / AC Cafe
Programs: It's hard to get status when the website won't let me book flights.
Posts: 5,712
Because load factors hover around 86-88% for both mainline and rouge.
Sean Peever is offline  
Old Mar 27, 2015, 9:09 am
  #4747  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 648
Originally Posted by researcher1005
I have been searching European destinations, and looking for cheap tickets.
I find Rogue prices identical to mainline prices, with smaller pitches.
What is the point of sitting on Rogue?

BTW, Air Transat is cheaper usually by a $100+ margin.
i think you just answered your own Q ;-)
bizorbetter is offline  
Old Mar 27, 2015, 9:10 am
  #4748  
Moderator, Air Canada; FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE MM, FB Plat, WS Plat, BA Silver, DL GM, Marriott Plat, Hilton Gold, Accor Silver
Posts: 16,855
Originally Posted by Sean Peever
Because load factors hover around 86-88% for both mainline and rouge.
In which case, with its lower cost structure, Rouge should theoretically be cheaper.
Adam Smith is offline  
Old Mar 27, 2015, 9:13 am
  #4749  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ottawa, ON
Programs: AC*SE100K, AC*MM, Marriott Platinum Elite
Posts: 286
Originally Posted by adam.smith
In which case, with its lower cost structure, Rouge should theoretically be cheaper.
Rouge is about lower costs for Air Canada, not lower costs for travelers.
sweden05 is offline  
Old Mar 27, 2015, 9:16 am
  #4750  
Formerly known as tireman77
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,734
Originally Posted by adam.smith
In which case, with its lower cost structure, Rouge should theoretically be cheaper.
Not if the flights that have been rouged were operating at a loss or break-even beforehand.

Everyone assumes all routes were profitable. Can't say I agree with that assumption.
PLeblond is offline  
Old Mar 27, 2015, 9:17 am
  #4751  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MLL / AC Cafe
Programs: It's hard to get status when the website won't let me book flights.
Posts: 5,712
Originally Posted by adam.smith
In which case, with its lower cost structure, Rouge should theoretically be cheaper.
Sorry - my point was why would AC try and make the tickets cheaper when they are selling the seats at a very high load factor at the current price?

If Apple is selling their iPhone 6 at almost 90% of manufacturing capacity they're not going to reduce the price. (substitute Apple for any company that makes or delivers a product)
Sean Peever is offline  
Old Mar 27, 2015, 9:19 am
  #4752  
Moderator, Air Canada; FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE MM, FB Plat, WS Plat, BA Silver, DL GM, Marriott Plat, Hilton Gold, Accor Silver
Posts: 16,855
Originally Posted by sweden05
Rouge is about lower costs for Air Canada, not lower costs for travelers.
It's about increasing profits for Air Canada by competing for a more price-sensitive traveller to a destination that might not be competitive with ML service.

AC will always try to maximise profits, and it will sell a seat for as much as it thinks it can get, but if the point of Rouge was to try to be more competitive on leisure travel, like what Transat does, it seems odd that they would price above Transat and in line with AC ML.
Adam Smith is offline  
Old Mar 27, 2015, 9:22 am
  #4753  
Moderator, Air Canada; FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE MM, FB Plat, WS Plat, BA Silver, DL GM, Marriott Plat, Hilton Gold, Accor Silver
Posts: 16,855
Originally Posted by PLeblond
Not if the flights that have been rouged were operating at a loss or break-even beforehand.

Everyone assumes all routes were profitable. Can't say I agree with that assumption.
Quite possible, but if you now have Rouge, why would you continue to sell ML tickets at break-even or a loss when you could let the more price-sensitive folks buy the Rouge ticket and sell the ML ticket for more.

Originally Posted by Sean Peever
Sorry - my point was why would AC try and make the tickets cheaper when they are selling the seats at a very high load factor at the current price?

If Apple is selling their iPhone 6 at almost 90% of manufacturing capacity they're not going to reduce the price. (substitute Apple for any company that makes or delivers a product)
If they can sell enough tickets at the lower price, it may actually generate higher profits.

All this being said, I don't know what number's AC's revenue management is running and maybe the way they're pricing it is actually the profit-maximising way. It just seems odd to me.
Adam Smith is offline  
Old Mar 27, 2015, 9:39 am
  #4754  
Formerly known as tireman77
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,734
Originally Posted by adam.smith
Quite possible, but if you now have Rouge, why would you continue to sell ML tickets at break-even or a loss when you could let the more price-sensitive folks buy the Rouge ticket and sell the ML ticket for more.


Maximizing revenue by route.

Some routes are higher yield. If they can get ML yield, a route remains mainline, If the route is mostly low yield, its Rouged.

I have used the example before, but AC is doing like apple is. Some people will pay $800 for an iPhone 6, others will pay $400 for an iPhone 5c.

Since AC is in a low population, large geographical market, it must compete on both levels to insure viability. Airlines in the US or Europe can chose which market they wish to cater to (high yield vs. low cost), but up here, one must be both.
PLeblond is offline  
Old Mar 27, 2015, 9:42 am
  #4755  
m.y
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC 75k, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 1,168
Originally Posted by adam.smith
Quite possible, but if you now have Rouge, why would you continue to sell ML tickets at break-even or a loss when you could let the more price-sensitive folks buy the Rouge ticket and sell the ML ticket for more.
1. ML has international J class that accounts for greater percentage of revenue compare to premium rouge, so Y seats on rouge must have healthy margins on their own.

2. Since for AC, each route is either all ML or all rouge so ML routes will have to cater to price sensitive passengers as well. AC could route price sensitive passengers to connect to and from rouge flights but that will make AC much less attractive comparing to other one stop options and lose many price sensitive passengers would still pay a small premium to fly non stop.
Last edited by m.y; Mar 27, 2015 at 9:47 am
m.y is offline  



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