The 2013 Air Canada Top Tier Program
Dec 23, 2011, 4:42 am
#301
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Flew over the Equator 55 times last 3 years
Programs: LANPASS Comodoro (Emerald), others
Posts: 2,957
I appreciate that the announcement was made before the year begins vs after, like last year, way more ethical. Now if only we could do something about AC doublespeak.
With respect, I doubt this is the true rationale. Saving money was. And you didn't realign to those flying the most. Realignment would be a zero sum game. You kept SE similar and devalued Elite, so in realignment you didn't give more to your most frequent flyers, you only gave less to less frequent flyers.
This is the perfect example? Really? The perfect example of taking away a lot and giving back a little, and wrapping it with doublespeak, perhaps?
... Additionally, as part of this realignment, we’re looking to offer you more choice in the program going forward – a perfect example of which is the fact that we’ll introduce Star Alliance Lounge access as a 2013 Select Privilege for members earning 35,000 Status Miles
Dec 23, 2011, 5:20 am
#302
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: YXU/YYZ
Programs: AC SE, AMEX Plat, Marriott Gold, NEXUS/GE
Posts: 598
I do not like the changes, so you can guess what mileage range I typically fall into. However, my dislike is pretty much just sour grapes. Objectively, this seems like something that they were going to have to do at some point anyway. I was actually relieved to see that there were some benefits for the 35K-50K fliers.
Having said that, I typically fly 35-45K per year, the majority self-funded (not that that really matters). If I push it with additional segments and not flying on redemption tickets myself (save them for family), then I could probably get 45-55K per year which is probably something I may do. So I suppose that in my case, from AC's standpoint, this was a good move.
Having said that, I typically fly 35-45K per year, the majority self-funded (not that that really matters). If I push it with additional segments and not flying on redemption tickets myself (save them for family), then I could probably get 45-55K per year which is probably something I may do. So I suppose that in my case, from AC's standpoint, this was a good move.
Dec 23, 2011, 5:47 am
#303
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: YOW
Programs: Aeroplan*E
Posts: 144
This one wallops us thanks to our anticipated travel patterns over the next couple of years. We have virtually no travel planned for this year, but will be moving overseas in 2013. I was desperately trying to figure out how we could arrange our travel in 2012 to squeak by with Elite, and then be able to credit more fully in 2013 (way bigger distances, way more flying, way more potential revenue). Not only is there no way for it to happen now, but by taking away *G, we've lost the incentive we had to try and regain status in 2013 by flying AP partners.
I realize this super-specific in terms of travel patterns, and frankly AC has indicated its Asian markets are the priority rather than expanding into Africa or the Middle East, but why suffer through an 8 hour connection in Frankfurt with no lounge access when there are direct flights back from Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Jordan and Qatar? I used to justify it based on points and "at least there's a lounge". I can't realistically do that anymore.
I get the need for increasing the requirements (although 4 levels rather than 3 seems to overcomplicate things) and I even get the need to restricting eupgrades, but the demotion down from *G really hurts.
I realize this super-specific in terms of travel patterns, and frankly AC has indicated its Asian markets are the priority rather than expanding into Africa or the Middle East, but why suffer through an 8 hour connection in Frankfurt with no lounge access when there are direct flights back from Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Jordan and Qatar? I used to justify it based on points and "at least there's a lounge". I can't realistically do that anymore.
I get the need for increasing the requirements (although 4 levels rather than 3 seems to overcomplicate things) and I even get the need to restricting eupgrades, but the demotion down from *G really hurts.
Dec 23, 2011, 5:57 am
#304
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: YOW
Programs: Aeroplan
Posts: 968
Got the email. Anticipated the responses.
Since I end the year at 0 status miles (and just a few Tropicana miles to keep my account active), I'm unaffected by the change. In 2010 I flew 41K status miles so empathize with those in the 35 - 49.9999K range.
Thankfully, MM get 50K status so I'll still have *G access (through my dh who has only 3K status miles this year) since I fly almost exclusively with him. Any other flights I need to take I'll either buy lounge access alone, or buy J with included lounge access.
My big concern is how fast will they send out the MM cards. We leave Feb 8 and return in March, flying Y, with very tight connections through Frankfurt (booked by the cruise line who included air, not us.) Will we have the *G card by then?
Since I end the year at 0 status miles (and just a few Tropicana miles to keep my account active), I'm unaffected by the change. In 2010 I flew 41K status miles so empathize with those in the 35 - 49.9999K range.
Thankfully, MM get 50K status so I'll still have *G access (through my dh who has only 3K status miles this year) since I fly almost exclusively with him. Any other flights I need to take I'll either buy lounge access alone, or buy J with included lounge access.
My big concern is how fast will they send out the MM cards. We leave Feb 8 and return in March, flying Y, with very tight connections through Frankfurt (booked by the cruise line who included air, not us.) Will we have the *G card by then?
Dec 23, 2011, 6:07 am
#305
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: YOW-AC*E
Posts: 82
Dec 23, 2011, 6:18 am
#306
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 379
You have to compare to US standards. Too many of us live on the border and can fly from SEA, BUF and wherever else. AC has to COPY US, UA or AA to stay in the game. Cheaper taxes flying from the USA and not such a monopoly like AC has. US standards define AC. I am glad to be a border girl and have decided either A3 or UA -- AC is simply no longer worth it. BTW, UA new biz class is 100% better than the outdated pods. Hope AC loses business over this and some new players come to the table. Still would love to see WJet kick some AC butt.
Dec 23, 2011, 6:23 am
#307
Join Date: May 2003
Location: YEG
Programs: AC E50 MM, WJ Gold, Marriott Titanium Elite Lifetime
Posts: 3,082
cry cry cry T__T
I do all my travel on my own dime. A combination of US domestic MRs (on weekends and the vac day here or there) + annual visits to Canada (to get the 10k minimum) is a tolerable "cost of living standard" for E.
But now the 35k tier turns into P+ ... I don't think I have the time nor can justify the cost of flying the extra 15k......
I think AC just fired me as a customer T__T
I do all my travel on my own dime. A combination of US domestic MRs (on weekends and the vac day here or there) + annual visits to Canada (to get the 10k minimum) is a tolerable "cost of living standard" for E.
But now the 35k tier turns into P+ ... I don't think I have the time nor can justify the cost of flying the extra 15k......
I think AC just fired me as a customer T__T
Dec 23, 2011, 6:29 am
#308
Join Date: May 2003
Location: YEG
Programs: AC E50 MM, WJ Gold, Marriott Titanium Elite Lifetime
Posts: 3,082
...this is a big F....U to the domestic flyers.
So Westjet here I come, I will get an Amex Plat to get all the same bennies that AC will offer me in 2013.
Hopefully others will be as fully committed, because honestly there's allot more E's than SE's and if some of the folks are actually as serious as I am maybe they will realize as the economy tightens up in this country that most folks will be flying less not more.
So all the self satisfied SE's who are thrilled at the lessening of wait times at the gate...guess what...when our numbers decline...you will be next.
So happy trails for one or two years...be ready for the clawback when E's realize the shaft they've been given the last 2 years.
So Westjet here I come, I will get an Amex Plat to get all the same bennies that AC will offer me in 2013.
Hopefully others will be as fully committed, because honestly there's allot more E's than SE's and if some of the folks are actually as serious as I am maybe they will realize as the economy tightens up in this country that most folks will be flying less not more.
So all the self satisfied SE's who are thrilled at the lessening of wait times at the gate...guess what...when our numbers decline...you will be next.
So happy trails for one or two years...be ready for the clawback when E's realize the shaft they've been given the last 2 years.
Let's face it, whether people can admit it or not, AC provides a higher level of in air experience than WJ with more comfortable seats and better/(free for now) IFE, with the potential to upgrade to J. I, as an SE, have been almost 100% successful on domestic upgrades this year, however, on the four or five occassions when I have not been, I don't worrry since I have a comfortable seat and will be taken care of by a professional crew.
Dec 23, 2011, 6:35 am
#309
Join Date: May 2003
Location: YEG
Programs: AC E50 MM, WJ Gold, Marriott Titanium Elite Lifetime
Posts: 3,082
That's because the IKK for SE's has already been destroyed this year to such an extent that really there's not much more that can be done to it.
It really is quite surprising to me how happy the vast majority of SE's are about the announcement. We've become so used to the devaluations over the past few years that when they announce that they're making things worse only for 35K Elites we jump for joy. How quickly all of the SE's forget that this SE program is vastly inferior to the SE program of even a year ago. We're now thrilled about the current SE program?
It really is quite surprising to me how happy the vast majority of SE's are about the announcement. We've become so used to the devaluations over the past few years that when they announce that they're making things worse only for 35K Elites we jump for joy. How quickly all of the SE's forget that this SE program is vastly inferior to the SE program of even a year ago. We're now thrilled about the current SE program?
Dec 23, 2011, 6:37 am
#310
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: YYZ-YVR-PVG-LAS
Programs: AC -SE, SPG-PLT, HH-G
Posts: 58
Asian flyers
Yeah, my wife does Asiana since she is based in China, but now I'll have to switch too based on these changes... the only thing of value to my profile is the ability to upgrade international flights...
I have been loyal to Air Canada for 15 years... I used Air Canada because of the opportunity to get to Star Alliance Gold at 35K miles.
While I am not a high mileage traveler, average 35K -45K miles a year, I stayed with Air Canada because of the benefits. My average travel airline costs is about $60K US per year, the quality of service, the friendliness of the staff, the quality of the seats, were all subpar compared to their competition ... yet i stayed with Air Canada because of the Star Alliance gold, and Loyalty. I would change my international routing just to hit an Air Canada plane... Not that i would be looking for upgrades.. but brand loyalty means something to me...
I realize I’m probably a Minority on this Forum with my low mileage but this will end my relationship with Air Canada at the end of 2012. My $60K US will go to Sky team, or Asiana. I am fine with all the other tier changes but having Star Alliance Gold made my travel experiences so much better. I might as well switch to Asiana / Korean Air and have Friendly staff, fantastic food, and a comfortable seat to sit in.
I realize that Farewell Air Canada lets enjoy this last year together... my disappointment is breath taking...
While I am not a high mileage traveler, average 35K -45K miles a year, I stayed with Air Canada because of the benefits. My average travel airline costs is about $60K US per year, the quality of service, the friendliness of the staff, the quality of the seats, were all subpar compared to their competition ... yet i stayed with Air Canada because of the Star Alliance gold, and Loyalty. I would change my international routing just to hit an Air Canada plane... Not that i would be looking for upgrades.. but brand loyalty means something to me...
I realize I’m probably a Minority on this Forum with my low mileage but this will end my relationship with Air Canada at the end of 2012. My $60K US will go to Sky team, or Asiana. I am fine with all the other tier changes but having Star Alliance Gold made my travel experiences so much better. I might as well switch to Asiana / Korean Air and have Friendly staff, fantastic food, and a comfortable seat to sit in.
I realize that Farewell Air Canada lets enjoy this last year together... my disappointment is breath taking...
Dec 23, 2011, 6:57 am
#311
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Outside Toronto apparently.
Programs: BA Silver, AC-E and a few hotels
Posts: 551
A bit of sleep has made this look better
Having taken a step back and given this some thought I am not so upset over the changes.
It is getting a bit silly that there are more people in the priority boarding line than normal economy!
This year I hit Elite by June without really breaking much of a sweat and would have got there sooner if my trip back to the uk for my passport renewal had been AC rather than TS! Total for the year on *A 48k.
Based on planned flying and a very attractive promo from BA I knew I could not make SE, so I switched to BA and got EC silver plus enough points for 2 First roundtrip flights from canada to london and that status is valid till end of Nov 2013
For the average short haul <1000 miles these new changes are going to hurt really badly and a lot of my flying is this nature but again I have a number of long hauls each year that will help my mileage.
Basically this is forces me to fly *A rather than spread my miles over multiple alliances.
It is getting a bit silly that there are more people in the priority boarding line than normal economy!
This year I hit Elite by June without really breaking much of a sweat and would have got there sooner if my trip back to the uk for my passport renewal had been AC rather than TS! Total for the year on *A 48k.
Based on planned flying and a very attractive promo from BA I knew I could not make SE, so I switched to BA and got EC silver plus enough points for 2 First roundtrip flights from canada to london and that status is valid till end of Nov 2013
For the average short haul <1000 miles these new changes are going to hurt really badly and a lot of my flying is this nature but again I have a number of long hauls each year that will help my mileage.
Basically this is forces me to fly *A rather than spread my miles over multiple alliances.
Dec 23, 2011, 7:28 am
#313
Join Date: Sep 2005
Programs: AC MM E50 , Former SPG, now Marriott LT Plat
Posts: 6,268
I still have not received the email....
I say thumbs up to the changes, it is time to differentiate between 35K and 90K flyers.
As a SE in every year that status has been available, and a MM'er, these changes will
not affect me very much. I have already decided that I will probably not be SE in coming
years due to the elimination of IKK.
Kudos to AC for announcing these changes well in advance. To those who are complaining it is not soon enough I say "Bah - you will always have something to complain about"
I say thumbs up to the changes, it is time to differentiate between 35K and 90K flyers.
As a SE in every year that status has been available, and a MM'er, these changes will
not affect me very much. I have already decided that I will probably not be SE in coming
years due to the elimination of IKK.
Kudos to AC for announcing these changes well in advance. To those who are complaining it is not soon enough I say "Bah - you will always have something to complain about"
Dec 23, 2011, 7:38 am
#314
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC E; Marriott Platinum
Posts: 2,409
On initial view today when received the e-mail, I thought.. thank goodness that there weren't enhancements like the ones made last year..
Seems like a mix of comments for and against..
as a bystander, the new tiers seemed to make sense.. to reward base on usage..
Is the rewards fair at each level?.. definitely up for discussion..
Seems like a mix of comments for and against..
as a bystander, the new tiers seemed to make sense.. to reward base on usage..
Is the rewards fair at each level?.. definitely up for discussion..
Dec 23, 2011, 7:38 am
#315
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: YOW
Programs: Aeroplan Elite
Posts: 56
Thinking more about it...
As someone who made Elite for the first time this year, is usually an AirCanada apologist, and will probably fall within the 35k-49k range going forward, I am really disappointed that AirCanada is restricting international upgrades for the 35k tier among a few other things.
Losing *G isn't much of an issue for me, but I can understand that it will be a major factor for people who have long international connections. MLL will not be less full for those who often complain about the deteriorating condition of the lounges since all >35k levels still have access.
Priority boarding in general would not be as much of an issue for me if AirCanada and the *Alliance partners would enforce carry-on bag limits (both size and number). I find no benefit in boarding first and would be the last to get on the plane if I knew my carryon could find a home in the overhead bin and not have to be stuffed under the seat in front of me during a 10 hour TALT flight in Y.
The lack of international upgrades in the 35k-49k tier devalues the entire program for flyers who make 4-6 TALT trips per year on Air Canada. There are certainly other options for carriers. Purchasing Latitude fares for business travel is often restricted by company policy and while always a gamble, it is nice to be able to upgrade the occasional flight under the current program. Could AirCanada not just give these 35k-49k Elites a shorter upgrade window than the other tiers to allow a prioritization between SE, E+ and E? We can then book flights accordingly on lower demand days to increase our chances for upgrades and reducing overcrowding on Friday and Saturday flights.
Finally, as someone suggested in a different thread, there has to be a solution to mileage runs. With the devaluation of the 35k-49k level, many people on the cusp will be undertaking MR this time next year. YOW to OGG is ~$900 and earns ~9500 status miles. Rather than having us sit on a plane for 20 hours (taking a seat from another pax) and generating 2892 lbs of CO2 emissions (ref, ITA), could we not find a better solution? Perhaps, as was suggested, let flyers donate the ticket but still earn the status miles.
Hoping that AirCanada reconsiders some aspects of the program based on the feedback and recommendations from the forum.
Losing *G isn't much of an issue for me, but I can understand that it will be a major factor for people who have long international connections. MLL will not be less full for those who often complain about the deteriorating condition of the lounges since all >35k levels still have access.
Priority boarding in general would not be as much of an issue for me if AirCanada and the *Alliance partners would enforce carry-on bag limits (both size and number). I find no benefit in boarding first and would be the last to get on the plane if I knew my carryon could find a home in the overhead bin and not have to be stuffed under the seat in front of me during a 10 hour TALT flight in Y.
The lack of international upgrades in the 35k-49k tier devalues the entire program for flyers who make 4-6 TALT trips per year on Air Canada. There are certainly other options for carriers. Purchasing Latitude fares for business travel is often restricted by company policy and while always a gamble, it is nice to be able to upgrade the occasional flight under the current program. Could AirCanada not just give these 35k-49k Elites a shorter upgrade window than the other tiers to allow a prioritization between SE, E+ and E? We can then book flights accordingly on lower demand days to increase our chances for upgrades and reducing overcrowding on Friday and Saturday flights.
Finally, as someone suggested in a different thread, there has to be a solution to mileage runs. With the devaluation of the 35k-49k level, many people on the cusp will be undertaking MR this time next year. YOW to OGG is ~$900 and earns ~9500 status miles. Rather than having us sit on a plane for 20 hours (taking a seat from another pax) and generating 2892 lbs of CO2 emissions (ref, ITA), could we not find a better solution? Perhaps, as was suggested, let flyers donate the ticket but still earn the status miles.
Hoping that AirCanada reconsiders some aspects of the program based on the feedback and recommendations from the forum.