cwhitt

I was able to find YUL-ZRH-NBO-IST-YUL. The segments in and out of NBO were Y so not a true representation, but should still give an idea. Total fees: $131/pp.

Surprisingly, I was able to pull up the same itinerary with YHZ-YUL added on the ends, and found fees were only $161/pp. Just the Nav Canada fee added I think.

(I picked another random J itinerary out of YUL same dates (AC Y TATL even), fees were $927/pp, but I guess that is no surprise to anyone here)

If that holds true for my target dates, I'd be quite tempted to book it for simplicity's sake, even though it's not nearly as creative as I was thinking I'd get. No need for positioning flights at all.

worldtraveller73

Having done both NBO and JNB on a reward last year, it's do-able with challenges.

I find that African carriers are totally behind the times with releasing business seats. There are some released a year out, then there are some that don't release at all until they remember about it- Ethiopian I'm talking to you. Contrast this with LH and UA that release seats at various times through the year as availability allows.

You can (or could last year) get LX too and from NBO (3+ business seats per flight per direction). I've also found TK via IAD as well if I recall correctly. You might also consider the LH route FRA via JED to ADD (onward to NBO) which would make for an interesting flight and a transit of Saudi Arabia... I've seen great business availability there.

hearna

LX out of YUL would be your best option;

I dont think TK has announced which aircraft will fly into YUL; 333 with lie flat seats or 332 with angle flat; However TK is better for sleeping (later departure); but due to late arrival in IST; may screw up your cnx; and visa's for Canadians in Turkey cost a few bucks!

Last year TK17/18 had very limited availability but I built my trip around the days it was open;

Did YOW-YYZ-IST(stop)-JNB-CPT(stop)-IST-GVA(stop)-ZRH-YUL-YOW

All in J on AC, TK, TK, SA, TK, TK, LX, LX, AC; total taxes per person was about 250$.

Using your 2 for 1 to position to YUL does not make sense; if you pay taxes on your intl trip or on the short haul; what diff does it make? If you avoid LH/AC longhaul all you will be charged is AC shorthaul YQ; which is 27$ each direction; nothing compared to the countless thousands saved on such a trip.

SEMM

YUL flights are being served with 333 lie flat seats.

cwhitt

I'm pretty sure expertflyer was showing 333 ex-YUL for TK as someone else just posted.

Right now I'm thinking of a European stop outbound (assuming weather will be better earlier in the fall), with IST on the return. I expect we'll be at least 2-3 weeks in NBO. I haven't got to thinking about visas and such yet.

As for the positioning flight, yeah I see that now. Before I actually tried it, I interpreted the stories about YQ to mean having even just the first segment on AC might affect the fees for the rest. Now that I see it's only charged on the actual AC segments I see there is no point in positioning for YQ savings.

My only chance to save more would be a route through BOS, EWR, etc, but so far no luck on availability.

Thanks for the help so far! I'm sure there'll be more questions.

SEMM

Try JFK as well as TK and LX both fly from there as well.

cwhitt

Yeah, I'm counting on LX J ZRH-NBO outbound (for now). When I looked far enough ahead on ANA tool last night, that seemed to be feasible.

The IAD option is interesting. Didn't think of that one but there is UA direct from YHZ. I'll have to try it out later to see if I can find routings within the MPM. Although thinking twice about it, it may be worth $27 to avoid US customs, and sit in J on an E90 rather than Y on a UAExpress CRJ. What lounge options would an *awards J ticket get me in IAD, and is that better than the MLL INTL in YUL?

I thought LH charged YQ? I might consider it if the route is particularly interesting, and I could get a 380 J segment...

C

cwhitt

I searched a bit last night with ANA tool, but could not find any J availability on either LX or TK out of BOS, EWR, or JFK, even far out into the next year and when there was plenty of Y award seats available. If anyone knows if there is J available on those routings, and when inventory is released, that would be great to know.

That said, since I know I can get it through YUL, there is slightly less appeal to force my routing through the US, unless it gives me the option of more interesting connection/stopover points.

ciana

We are flying to South Africa in Feb on the following itinerary:

Both one ways: All segments J seats - 2 people Total: fees etc $147pp + AE booking fee for inbound as it couldn't be booked on-line. It had to be confirmed as a valid routing and booked through agent.

YYZ-IST-DAR (TK)-JNB (SAA)
CPT-JNB-HKG(SAA)-TPE-YYZ (BR)

I thought about having a possible stop as well as the open jaw but a problem arose. I booked the one way outbound on the AE site as soon as it appeared. The next day AE phoned to say that TK wouldn't honour the booking; supervisor tried to talk to TK but it was no go. AE then routed us on AC through LHR with more stops (but original fees unchanged). Two days later I saw that TK had the J seats up again so I called in. AE got us moved back to the first routing even though TK said they had made a mistake again putting the J seats up - it was only suppose to be Y. Our flights are on a Sunday and I have since read that there seems to be TK Y on Sundays but more J released on Tues flights- don't know if that's right or not. However no change could later be made to the ticket or the seats would be pulled.

We decided not to touch this outbound as the times/dates were perfect. That forced us into a one way home so no stops. Since we would already be gone from home a month in South Africa and it was cold most places we decided that was best anyway.

Other notes: looked at CPT-JNB-IAD (SAA) That did become available about one week after I booked but the problem was the IAD-YYZ home. UA releases their seats much later than the others- nothing available. When they did show up two weeks later the only award seat was the night IAD-YYZ which would have meant a 12 hr or more layover in IAD after a very long flight (17 hrs?) Moot point as the SAA flights were long gone by the time UA released seats. Also looked at coming home through GRU but dates of those SAA seats did not match at all our travel dates.

Good luck with your plans!

hearna

You probably wont save any money at all going thru the USA; they charge some pretty rough fees on immigration; etc. Halifax does have pre-clearence which is good, but you may have to switch terminals in the states which involves a TSA rape :P

Also for the tk flight; like anyone else; they can swap. My IST-CPT was supposed to be 332 but we lucked out with 333's each way. YYZ is assured 77W which is an awesome plane (free wifi )

I believe Boston is also a 332

cwhitt

Nice score with JNB-HKG (SA). I could make JNB-HKG-TPE-YYZ-YHZ work with my MPM, too! CPT might be a bit far through YYZ outbound, but YUL might just squeak under.

I'm not planning open jaw, so if I use CPT and turnaround, NBO stop outbound, I can stop in HKG, TPE, PEK etc on return (if I can get out of JNB of course).

Agreed on going through the US. However, if the right itinerary came up it's not out of the question. I don't even mind first/last segment in Y when booking and try to switch to J when UA releases their inventory later. Probably won't matter for me though, unless bouncing through YYZ/YUL anyway, since all the directs to YHZ will be United Express on CRJ.

Now that I know the YQ for YHZ-YUL/YYZ/YOW will not have a massive impact on the rest of the itinerary, I'm much less afraid of first leg on AC and connecting through Canada only. YYZ is just within MPM for NBO and JNB, which will give me more options.

Looks like between the AC hubs I'll have good options on LX, TK, SN, BR, maybe CA or SQ - does anyone know if SQ releases any Tpac J award inventory at all (again, assuming I can get out of JNB on SA)?

Good to know about the other stuff. The 77W might sway me to slightly prefer YYZ-IST outbound (if it fits MPM-wise).

It's nice to have the backup plan of YHZ-YUL-ZRH-NBO-IST-YUL-YHZ, but if I can make the stops in NBO, CPT, and HKG, it's a lot easier for me to reach ZRH and IST on future trips...

crimsona

No sq J on 773 or 380

Which is basically all their long haul

lowside67

I have an RTW booked going through JNB. I'm not familiar with the MPM values for YHZ-JNB but for Vancouver, YVR-CPT was over 1000 miles higher than YVR-JNB while the actual flight is only 790, so it helped me squeak under mileage. You might want to check the allowances for YHZ and see which makes more sense for you.

I found very little availability on JNB-HKG but found lots on JNB-PEK with SAA. JNB-BKK also has good space but you have to pay for that flight (TG YQ) and it has Thai's older business class product so it's not really that ideal. However, it is a LOT more direct route than PEK so if you need the mileage and there is no availability to HKG, it's an option.

SEMM

NOT TRUE. I have seen routes SIN-DEL, SIN-MEL, SIN-SYD on SQ using B-773, B-77W and A-388 all open up sometimes in J and even in F if the loads are light and usually happens within the 14 day window prior to departure. Just depends on how persistent you are about rechecking all the time for availability.

cwhitt

So what I'm getting is that I should have a backup plan for a return re-route after departure.

I'm planning 2-3 weeks in NBO for Mt Kilimanjaro + safari, so I could easily have time to rebook onto SQ J after the trip has started. Nice. In fact, I thought that I heard that YQ was not recalculated after the trip has started, so perhaps TG is a backup option as well.

If I want to go that route I'll have to keep my hotels flexible for the return, though.

I love planning travel, but this is a little bit of a new level for me. Thanks for all the help so far!

C