SAS to face Ryainair at CPH starting in March 2015
Oct 30, 2014, 11:19 am
#31
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Ryanair has been investigated many times for receiving illegal aid from various airports. At the start of the month, the European Commission ruled that their arrangement with Brussels Charleroi, Frankfurt Hahn, Alghero and Stockholm Vasteras are not illegal, and they have already confirmed that arrangements with Aarhus, Bratislava, Marseille, Niederrhein, Berlin Schönefeld and Tampere airports also comply with EU State aid rules.
If they are losing money in their dealings with Ryanair, why would they continue to pay Ryanair?
In any case - SAS has received far more support down the years from the Danish (and other) governments than the small amounts on offer to Ryanair from secondary and tertiary airports in remote parts of Europe.
But I do agree with you - Ryanair staff deserve to be paid more. The employee cost at SAS is double what it is at Ryanair - yet, in 2012, SAS were ranked as the least productive employees amongst the surveyed airlines.
Last edited by irishguy28; Oct 30, 2014 at 11:25 am
Oct 30, 2014, 11:22 am
#32
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Some time ago I started a thread on BA forum: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/briti...concerned.html and the general consensus is that recent FR service improvements make this airline more attractive to passengers (including Corporate/business fliers - as I mentioned in the thread - FR claims 22% of their passengers fly on business).
They went back on the Amadeus GDS 2 weeks ago - so they are increasingly appearing in corporate booking environments again.
Not to mention general online travel agents....
Oct 30, 2014, 12:51 pm
#33
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I do not think SAS should be too concerned at the moment. On the three announced routes Ryanairs timetable sucks on two of them. Luton has somewhat ok timing, Bergamo alright - at best, and Modlin just sucks big time. I think the 10 routes yet to be announced pose at larger threat...
With a scheme like this, all I can think of is the potential impact of a minor delay - bare i mind there is no other aircraft to juggle with. Im not at all familiar with Luton airport, does anyone have an idea what consequences a missed slot departing Luton might have? Are we looking at a two minute delay or is i rather half an hour?
With a scheme like this, all I can think of is the potential impact of a minor delay - bare i mind there is no other aircraft to juggle with. Im not at all familiar with Luton airport, does anyone have an idea what consequences a missed slot departing Luton might have? Are we looking at a two minute delay or is i rather half an hour?
Code:
CPH-LTN 06:45-07:30 LTN-CPH 07:55-10:40 CPH-BGY 11:05-13:15 BGY-CPH 13:40-15:50 CPH-LTN 16:35-17:20 LTN-CPH 17:45-20:30 CPH-WMI 20:55-22:20 WMI-CPH 22:45-00:10+1
Last edited by WorldtravellerExtraordinaire; Oct 30, 2014 at 1:40 pm Reason: corrections
Oct 30, 2014, 1:49 pm
#34
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Never flown Ryanair and don't plan to try it. I have flown Easyjet to CPH twice but never flown it from CPH -- both were last minute tickets booked at the airport to take the next available flight to CPH. I've flown DY for intra-Scandinavia routes and for some sunny leisure destinations from Denmark, Norway, and Sweden because they offered a non-stop that SK did not. I can see my DY flights increasing even as I prefer SK over it.
Oct 30, 2014, 4:59 pm
#35
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I think some of you are missing part of the point of what this means to SAS. Yes it may not be a viable alternative for most business travellers, but SAS as a legacy carrier and from their main hub of CPH are also dependant on filling the back of the plane with "cheap" seats for leisure travellers.
Those seats will now be much more difficult to fill when FR enters some markets, and yes many of these travellers will pick the lowest price ahead of distance from airport to city centre and other such factors.
In the end a lack of revenue in GO may lead to cut backs on routes, which in turn the FFs like on here will find to be negative.
Surely we will soon see another SAS savings programme a la "4Excellence" or "CoreSAS" or call it what you will.
Those seats will now be much more difficult to fill when FR enters some markets, and yes many of these travellers will pick the lowest price ahead of distance from airport to city centre and other such factors.
In the end a lack of revenue in GO may lead to cut backs on routes, which in turn the FFs like on here will find to be negative.
Surely we will soon see another SAS savings programme a la "4Excellence" or "CoreSAS" or call it what you will.
Oct 30, 2014, 5:16 pm
#36
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From WMI is not too bad either. Especially for penny sensitive customers it matters that public transportation out of Kastrup works at night ... and pretty much for the same cost as during the day.
I don't think anybody here is particularly worried about gold EB members flying to WAW in the morning for a day meeting to return in the afternoon. These are not very likely to leak to FR. People in the back of the bus, who fly 4 times a year will be very tempted.
Oct 30, 2014, 7:01 pm
#37
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I think SK should be worried. SK's product, especially intra-Europe, has gone down over the years in terms of service -- essentially heading towards the no-frills FR style of service. I think there is a large percentage of the flying public willing to put up with FR's level of service, especially for a short intra-Europe flight, if it means a significant savings over SK.
Oct 31, 2014, 3:03 am
#38
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The Ryanair hours for the Polish service are well-suited for the very large number of people in the area who go to/from Poland for VFR and other leisure travel. The Oresund region has a high number of Polish-speakers; for most of that market, these hours are great.
I think SK should be worried. SK's product, especially intra-Europe, has gone down over the years in terms of service -- essentially heading towards the no-frills FR style of service. I think there is a large percentage of the flying public willing to put up with FR's level of service, especially for a short intra-Europe flight, if it means a significant savings over SK.
The CPH-area residents flying short-haul leisure have a lot of passengers like that, as SK and DY have groomed them to expect little to nothing more in product/service than what LCCs provide.
Ryanair should thank SAS and Norwegian for preparing the market for Ryanair.
I think SK should be worried. SK's product, especially intra-Europe, has gone down over the years in terms of service -- essentially heading towards the no-frills FR style of service. I think there is a large percentage of the flying public willing to put up with FR's level of service, especially for a short intra-Europe flight, if it means a significant savings over SK.
Ryanair should thank SAS and Norwegian for preparing the market for Ryanair.
Last edited by GUWonder; Oct 31, 2014 at 3:09 am
Oct 31, 2014, 4:51 am
#39
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Well...that's a little exaggerated.
I have never before heard of Ryanair designating a brand-new destination as a BASE before. Usually, it takes time for them to build up the destination. This aspect of the announcement doesn't seem to have been appreciated - they are starting with only 3 routes, but pretty quickly, there will be many more.
And again, it is almost unprecedented for Ryanair to completely withdraw from a base. They've had well-documented tussles with Marseille and Valencia, and withdrew base status from both - but they did not stop flying to the airports in question. Valencia is, in any case, a base once more. Other base closures - Maastricht (currently a base again), Kerry, etc, are still Ryanair destinations - they just don't/didn't have the same number of planes "based" there. Losing "base" status just means that it continues to be served from other destinations.
In fact, the only Ryanair base closure I know of that took it completely out of the network was Belfast City. But if it's more common than that, please let me know!
CPH is unlikely to disappear from Ryanair's roster any time soon.
I have never before heard of Ryanair designating a brand-new destination as a BASE before. Usually, it takes time for them to build up the destination. This aspect of the announcement doesn't seem to have been appreciated - they are starting with only 3 routes, but pretty quickly, there will be many more.
And again, it is almost unprecedented for Ryanair to completely withdraw from a base. They've had well-documented tussles with Marseille and Valencia, and withdrew base status from both - but they did not stop flying to the airports in question. Valencia is, in any case, a base once more. Other base closures - Maastricht (currently a base again), Kerry, etc, are still Ryanair destinations - they just don't/didn't have the same number of planes "based" there. Losing "base" status just means that it continues to be served from other destinations.
In fact, the only Ryanair base closure I know of that took it completely out of the network was Belfast City. But if it's more common than that, please let me know!
CPH is unlikely to disappear from Ryanair's roster any time soon.
I don't underestimate the power of Ryan Air, and actually have a great deal of respect for what MoL has achieved with Ryan Air. And have quite often defended him from a business perspective in discussions. (For the short haul operations, I also have a lot of respect for the results of DY) That does not, however, mean I from my situation believe in using FR's product. And they would need to change considerably before I would.
Never flown Ryanair and don't plan to try it. I have flown Easyjet to CPH twice but never flown it from CPH -- both were last minute tickets booked at the airport to take the next available flight to CPH. I've flown DY for intra-Scandinavia routes and for some sunny leisure destinations from Denmark, Norway, and Sweden because they offered a non-stop that SK did not. I can see my DY flights increasing even as I prefer SK over it.
Nov 3, 2014, 11:59 pm
#42
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You are missing the key point here, well actually you are not. If they are the only operator flying a route, they will get customers. I would also believe there is a large proportion of danes who would rather pay 149dkk than 1499dkk for a flight to London. If Easyjet have made the LCC model out of CPH work, Ryanair will have absolutely no problems!
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Feb 11, 2015, 1:52 am
#43
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So, as March 2015 is nearing, I think it's time to do some CPR on this topic and get it going again. Where are we standing now?
Seems like FR was a bit too ambitious with announcing a base directly at CPH. They actually gave the airport a small dot on their current route map, where a big one would indicate a base. Also, there are just 3 routes for sale: CPH to LTN, BGY and WMI
In addition, dots have been placed at CRL, FCO, MAD, PMO and OPO. These routes don't seem to be on sale yet, but apparently indicate future routes. This is significantly less than those 10 additional routes announced previously. Seems like the maiden flights to the initial airports are on March 26, by the way.
Are we facing a slow start here or are we facing an airline with too big ambitions?
Honestly, with the introduction of their fast track at several airports and their flexible business product at, especially compared to SAS, very low fares, and their strive to be more customer friendly (something SAS should learn from), I think they might actually become a serious threat to SK.
Seems like FR was a bit too ambitious with announcing a base directly at CPH. They actually gave the airport a small dot on their current route map, where a big one would indicate a base. Also, there are just 3 routes for sale: CPH to LTN, BGY and WMI
In addition, dots have been placed at CRL, FCO, MAD, PMO and OPO. These routes don't seem to be on sale yet, but apparently indicate future routes. This is significantly less than those 10 additional routes announced previously. Seems like the maiden flights to the initial airports are on March 26, by the way.
Are we facing a slow start here or are we facing an airline with too big ambitions?
Honestly, with the introduction of their fast track at several airports and their flexible business product at, especially compared to SAS, very low fares, and their strive to be more customer friendly (something SAS should learn from), I think they might actually become a serious threat to SK.
Feb 12, 2015, 7:02 am
#44
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Probably should have been quotation marks around the three specific routes they announced at the event at the Hilton CPH.
