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Old Jun 28, 15, 3:42 pm   #946
  
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Originally Posted by Exec_Plat View Post
OK, I know people on the internet need to judge... lets get past that and actually get to the issue.

What will they charge you? It is not like there is a legal statue that says "if you attempt fraud they charge you whatever they want"

There are two SEPARATE issues: is it fraud. Maybe. Lets even say yes to get past the chest thumping and moral superiority nonsense.

What can the desk clerk/hotel charge you if you refuse the upcharge?

They can SAY 'you pay RACK'...and I submit, unless there is text in the terms and conditions under which you gave them a deposit, that you are not obligated to pay rack if you choose not to stay. Furthermore, can they take the deposit, refuse you a room, and keep the deposit even if you showed up? You arent a no-show...

I submit there is a legal vacuum around this specific issue in many terms and conditions.



1. The terms and conditions state you will pay for the room if you no show. Period.

The terms and conditions do not (usually) say "If you are not qualified for the rate you reserve, your rate will be the rack rate"

On RARE occasion Ive seen "if you do not qualify for the booked rate, you will pay the walk up rate" in the advance terms and conditions. Which is not RACK.

Happened to me once in PHX with a rate I had at 249. they wanted $480. I sat on a chair in the lobby, booked a room for $339 on my ipad. Desk clerk said "Glad you were able to book that, they make us charge that to walk ups".

2. The idea that a corp would see a night hotel stay somewhere, flag it, then have the hotel come back to a guest either during the stay or weeks/months/years later is truly laughable

3. The Park Hyatt SYD is not really a useful example, is it? I have no doubt their processes, checks and policies are strict.

4. You worry about your moral compass, I'll worry about mine. How I deal with PEOPLE is entirely different than my moral feelings towards CORPORATIONS.



ps austin-modern..Ill PM you, happy to help your company's cause.

I KID, I KID!!!

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Old Jun 28, 15, 3:42 pm   #947
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And if the reservation's cancellation terms are to cancel 4PM the day prior, you don't think the hotel will charge the card they have on file if you walk out?

You seem to have a very narrow view of what the property can actually do.
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Old Jun 28, 15, 4:49 pm   #948
  
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Originally Posted by m0hamed View Post
And if the reservation's cancellation terms are to cancel 4PM the day prior, you don't think the hotel will charge the card they have on file if you walk out?

You seem to have a very narrow view of what the property can actually do.
And you don't think that he would call his credit card company for a chargeback, arguing that he showed up, was denied a room, and then was then charged for it anyway?

You seem to have a very narrow view of what consumers can actually do.
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Old Jun 28, 15, 5:53 pm   #949
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hailstorm View Post
And you don't think that he would call his credit card company for a chargeback, arguing that he showed up, was denied a room, and then was then charged for it anyway?

You seem to have a very narrow view of what consumers can actually do.
And during the chargeback process the hotel will state the cancellation terms and it will be denied.

But by all means, go ahead with your conclusions as opposed to someone who has inside knowledge from a Hyatt perspective.
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Old Jun 28, 15, 6:16 pm   #950
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Originally Posted by Exec_Plat View Post
OK, I know people on the internet need to judge... lets get past that and actually get to the issue.
Let's get past mislabeling opinions as judgment. This is a message board. If you don't like disagreement, retreat to your echo chamber.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exec_Plat View Post
Lets [...] get past the chest thumping and moral superiority nonsense.
A dubious characterization of personal ethics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exec_Plat View Post
You worry about your moral compass, I'll worry about mine. How I deal with PEOPLE is entirely different than my moral feelings towards CORPORATIONS.
You confuse worry with comment. If you're going to post your situational ethics, they are open to discussion.
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Old Jun 28, 15, 6:18 pm   #951
  
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If your company uses concur- 1st make sure your points number is in the system. Then book a room for a night a few months out. Go on to hyatt and go to reservations and you should be able to pull up the reservation and the corporate code is there.

My wifes company's policy is that they have no problem if you use their corporate code, they actually tell you it is fine for you to use it. The great thing is for the Tokyo Grand and Andaz it has fixed rates of 250 a night. Even better is when the outsourcing company books the rooms and the rates are even less.

I am a government employee and even though the rates are not as good as they used to be I have never been asked ever for my ID.

I can tell you that for my wifes company, when they have people traveling to a location like Tokyo they reached out to specific hotels to get their code to get much lower rates. 250 a night is a lot better than the normal 400 a night.
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Old Jun 28, 15, 7:07 pm   #952
  
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Discussing what "should" or "could" or "might" happen is educational (in the same way that ghost stories around a campfire are educational). Does anyone have any actual experience with what actually DOES happen? Has anyone on this board had their rate changed at check-in? Tell us about it.

I have 30 years experience as a road warrior, traveling almost every week.

IME Hyatt is very lenient.

On occasions, I have had a "guaranteed for late arrival" reservation, and I phoned the hotel to tell them that my flight was cancelled and I would not be there. I acknowledge that the room was guaranteed, but I also explain that I'm calling because I want them to be able to sell the room if needed, because it's a natural fact that I won't be there. I've never been charged for any reservation when the flight makes me no-show.

I've showed up very late at a hotel and all they had were smoking rooms. I chose not to stay there, and was not charged any kind of fee (even though the reservation was "guaranteed").

On exactly one occasion, I showed up at a hotel in Charlotte NC, checked in, etc. I was a bit miffed because they didn't seem to have any record of my reservation. A few days later, I discovered that a nearby hotel charged me for being a no-show. (I had gone to the wrong hotel : the two hotels were near each other). Hyatt reversed the charges for the second (unoccupied) room.

I've been asked to show my corporate ID exactly one time, at an Avis rent-car counter in Montreal.

Your Mileage May Vary.
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Old Jun 28, 15, 7:31 pm   #953
  
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Originally Posted by m0hamed View Post
And during the chargeback process the hotel will state the cancellation terms and it will be denied.

But by all means, go ahead with your conclusions as opposed to someone who has inside knowledge from a Hyatt perspective.
I am someone with inside knowledge of the chargeback process. It is greatly skewed towards the consumer. The selling party rarely ever wins this dispute. This is the main reason why I will never use eBay as a selling medium again.
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Old Jun 28, 15, 7:53 pm   #954
  
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Originally Posted by austin_modern View Post
One more comment here - the company could give two poots that you use their codes - in fact they would prefer you do as you get more volume onto their numbers allowing for higher negotiations with hyatt or individual hotels. They arent subsidizing these rates so this is nothing more than volume tracking for volume discounts.
I used to work at a hotel that was adjacent to the headquarters of a massive retail corporation. We were their preferred hotel because we provided a substantial discount and offered "last room availability" on their rate.

At one point, their travel department discovered that vendors coming to visit were using their corporate code. That got shut down quickly because it was costing the company money. When they were unable to book our hotel for their employees, they had to use a different hotel that charged more each night.

While there are companies that don't care, there are also ones that will.
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Old Jun 28, 15, 9:42 pm   #955
  
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Originally Posted by m0hamed View Post
And during the chargeback process the hotel will state the cancellation terms and it will be denied.

But by all means, go ahead with your conclusions as opposed to someone who has inside knowledge from a Hyatt perspective.

Excellent. Insider.

Where does Hyatt state that if you book a room that you are not qualified for they can charge you a no show even if you do show up?

I assume you can point to the "cancellation terms" you reference in your post where this is disclosed. Any links? Its got to be public, it is after all a "term" of a consumer agreement, right?

Actually - come to think of it- one might say 'the hotel cancelled my booking when I arrived as the rate seemed to be restricted'. If the hotel cancels it, or refuses to honor the room as booked, Id love to read where the no show or 'if you cancel after XYZ' policy will apply. Remember, you are willing to consummate the terms of your booking- the hotel is not.

Is there a clause that says 'if we think the booking is fraudulent then __________'? If there is, we should hear that. Not what they do, not their policy, but something that the consumer agrees to when they book a room.

I understand what hotels DO...the question is what the law permits. People inside companies confuse corporate policy with the law. They seem to think "oh the lawyers must have looked at this" ...they are often mistaken. Some of the worst people to get good advice from actually. All they know is what the company tells them.

IMO, hotels charge RACK since they have the guest in a bind. Guests think they must. I submit they dont. Walking isnt fun though, and most pay.
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Old Jun 28, 15, 9:45 pm   #956
  
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Originally Posted by hailstorm View Post
I am someone with inside knowledge of the chargeback process. It is greatly skewed towards the consumer. The selling party rarely ever wins this dispute. This is the main reason why I will never use eBay as a selling medium again.
One comment, that FT has brought to my attention:

the chargeback process in the USA is quite different that UK or Aus. One might opine that the US is more consumer friendly.

Hence, when people make declarations about a chargeback and what will happen, you need to look at where they live/work.

Also, CB will vary with the card and with the annual spend.
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Old Jun 28, 15, 10:40 pm   #957
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Exex_Plat, you misunderstand. Every reservation has its own cancellation terms attached to the rate.

If the cancellation terms state must be cancelled by 4PM or 6PM the night prior, then the hotel would be within their right to charge the amount if you are ineligible for the rate and refuse to pay the new rate and walk out.

See below for the GH NY which is actually 48 hours prior.

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Old Jun 29, 15, 12:09 am   #958
  
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I have had friends hook me up with corporate rates, and since they usually have the company travel office make the booking for me there is no risk. As far as the hotel is concerned I am entitled to use the rate.

I would be cautious of using rate codes myself, but I really can't blame people for trying to save on their hotel bookings. Of course it is a morally questionable practice to fraudulently use corporate rates, but on the other hand it is arguably morally questionable for sub par large Hyatt city hotels to charge exorbitant rates (GH New York comes to mind).

I say do it at your own risk if you must, but be prepared to pay rack if you get caught. After all while the practice cannot be condoned, I am not sure hotels and companies do not benefit somewhat from a certain amount of misuse of corporate rates. If someone who would not otherwise have paid rack rate stays on a corporate rate, that is still revenue for the hotel. Likewise more people staying on a corporate rate contributes to the volume of business the hotel is (at least purportedly) getting from that company.
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Old Jun 29, 15, 6:45 am   #959
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Let's discontinue the debate of the ethics of using a code which you're not entitled to - it's definitely a YMMV issue and nobody will ever change their mind.

Peteropny - co-mod - Hyatt
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Old Jun 29, 15, 9:06 am   #960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by austin_modern View Post
One more comment here - the company could give two poots that you use their codes - in fact they would prefer you do as you get more volume onto their numbers allowing for higher negotiations with hyatt or individual hotels. They arent subsidizing these rates so this is nothing more than volume tracking for volume discounts.

My company (large fortune 100 company) recently had a note in travel that asked for employees to stay at a certain hotel in the N.Bay because they were coming up for negotiation to everyone booking in the bay area.
It depends on the contract. There are certain rates that are negotiated directly with the hotel, with a fixed number of rooms available at the discounted rate. If you used one of them, you took that inventory away from someone else who is rightfully eligible.
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