intuition

Yes, goto SV webpage, MMB. Use the e-ticket searchfield and they will pull up any booking. Not sure you will find sabre/amadeus code, but worth a try.

NoWindowSeat

intuition, many thanks!

Courmisch

AA uses plain Sabre code, but forbids looking up the booking on Sabre's site (whose name I consequently already forgot).

Once Finnair check-in is open, you can use the AA booking code on Finnair site (totally OT, but that also works for AF custom booking codes) and see the Amadeus PNR on the PDF ticket. I don't know any way to get the code earlier, probably call Finnair.

intuition

Did anyone manage to redeem on Japan after the JV started? I am having a hard time finding availability. Upgrades seems to be banned on NRT and a few occasional seats exists on the other destinations on odd tuesdays and wednesdays.

As for award flights, business award seats does not exist during the coming 4 months. In november, the odd seat is available. You need to go to end of january to find good availability and then only tuesdays, wednesdays and thursdays.

I haven't done much redeeming on Japan, so if anyone could fill in here and tell me if this is normal or if availability have been cut, I'd appreciate it.

OH-LGG

I guess You check availability with that tool?

In the case upgrade, I call to Plat hotline and they see and can give upgrades with excellent service, of course.
I never use that tool.

intuition

Yeah, maybe a call will solve the situation.

But at this point it is not the crankiness of the tool - I can find availability on other routes. So I was interested to know if JV also led to fewer redemption and upgrade seats.

intuition

I finally got through on plat line, but no resolution. All that could be offered was waitlisting for upgrades. And we are talking about trips 4 months in advance, I was flexible with dates and destination (anyone of KIX,NGO or NRT) so this is just silly.

I asked if there was a policy change (removing seats from inventory) but got the standard answer "not that we have been informed about". I'll make my own educated guess that another 'enhancement' have been made.

heatsink

I know you already got an answer, but I also have an AA booking on AY metal, and I can see my reservation on Finnair's site just by logging in with my Plus account.

One of the flights has an AY flight number, though, so maybe that makes a difference.

intuition

So a follow up on my difficulties.

I have been trying to fly to Japan with Finnair for a while but to be realistic, it isn't going to happen.

I usually go to Japan twice a year, I always fly business and I don't mind paying for it. One would think it is a dream scenario for anyone in the business of selling airline tickets to Japan, and Finnair certainly has been the backbone of my travels for years because of this travel pattern.
But here's my gripe - I want to use my platinum perk and redeem miles for an upgrade for a family member travelling with me. And that is where the trouble begins.

AY platinum-line couldn't find any upgrade space and suggested I book on speculation and hope for waitlist to clear. I didn't agree, and as no availability turned up in the tool in the following weeks and months, I finally had to scrap the plans for this autumn.

Then I turned my interest to the spring season. Spring in Japan is ritual to me and I'm not going to miss it a single year if I can help it.

Finally, some seats were released and the cat-and-mouse game could begin. To upgrade, one has to find AY coded and AY operated flights. Ever since the creation of the joint venture this is impossible to find on AY webpages. Actually, they rather promote JL and BA flights than their own. Also, AY has started to (price wise) promote their worst connections - the search engine will only return layovers in HEL of up to 2 days for all fares except economy flexible.

BTW, for those of you who want to fly AY without the ridiculous layovers here is what you need to add in matrix
Be prepared to open your wallet widely.


By some "magic", the availability for upgrades only exists on dates and destinations where tickets are limited to upper fare classes, like Y,B or H. Also, if you are connecting, Y,B,H is needed if you want to fly AY metal. There are plenty of lower fares sold by AY, but they are only valid on BA and JL operated flights.

Well, since upgrade space is so rare, I still should grab it, right? Then I need to book one ticket in I (Business saver) and one ticket in B. The B ticket books into "Economy saver", ie I need to pay full flexible Y-price but gets the worst ticket conditions (no flexibility and lowest points earning).

It totals 4350€ + the cost of my points. According to AY's pricelist those points are at least another 500€.

Interesting enough, TK is offering to sell me 2 normal business tickets for 4000€. It is not just cheaper, it is a very un-convoluted process to buy. I enter the dates into the search engine, get the price and I book. I don't need to worry about getting a 2-day-layover or to be routed via LHR or vanishing upgrade space or married segments rules or paying full price and get 25% miles or ...

2 business tickets on QR and EK is on par with AY's pricing for one J and one Y (without shelling any points), delivering so much more service wise.

As of this point, Finnair lost out on 4 tickets to Japan. Surely, it is nothing in the big picture and maybe it is only me but my feelings are: Way to go Finnair on destroying the core values of your business offer.

WilcoRoger

Somehow I ended up BUD(-LHR)-NRT-HEL-PRG (can you spell TP? ) on JL stock and BA/JL metal in C - AY had the only shot for the last leg, which dropped the price significantly. Anything on AY metal on the longhauls and they were out by over 1000€ - even the BUD-HEL-NRT option. AY-coded flights returned even worse prices.

I don't really know if this is JV issue or not, but not very good for AY's bottom line.

intuition

Exactly my experience. And under normal circumstances I'd be more than thrilled to use JL but I need AY flights as per the rules of AY+
If they at least had made provisions for the FF-programs within this JV, it wouldn't be so bad. It would only be a fair addition to the JV if AY+ points were redeemable on any joint venture flight, but oh no, that was apparently too far fetched for them.


I might be wrong but AFAIK they have agreed to split revenue based on capacity (ASK's?) so it does not affect bottom line at all. In fact, if the three manages to raise the total revenue, AY will earn more money regardless of actual load factor on AY flights.

As they also agreed to cooperate on prices, I assume they have all agreed on using AY brand and shortest travel times as a differentiator thus offering AY coded flights at a premium. So I believe these 1000+€ add on for AY metal is the intended effect.




BTW, one interesting factor is that AY now offers 3 different Y ticket types: Econ Saver, Econ Flexible and Econ Premium. The latter is the most expensive and yet has the worst conditions - limited changes, limited cancellations, no seat selection, no priority security, no priority boarding.

WilcoRoger

My flight just proves otherwise on two counts - pricing the HEL route by 1000€+ over the LHR route put me on the outbound for BA = 0 revenue for AY. Being on JL ticket stock then still offered the shortest NRT-HEL route (on JL metal) so even the branding doesn't come into play. (and having JL code on HEL-PRG gives me a bucketload of Avios, too as compared with AY coded flights)

Courmisch

In my understanding, the JV members are sharing revenue. So presumably, it does make AY money anyway. And that tends to confirm Intuition's... well... intuition that AY is now branded as the fastest and most expensive "premium" choice within the JV.

FFlash

I just tried to burn my upgrades and book Y to Japan for holidays, but I was sad to find the comments above by intuition very true.

Then also I was surprised to find exactly same as below. Have I missed something, no more basic/value/pro tickets? I wished to book "value" to get more tier points.

intuition

Yes, no more BASIC/VALUE/PRO for Japan. (The system is still in use on the other destinations. )

All AY is willing to tell you about earnings to Japan is this
"AY+ points: Yes"

You must keep track of fare class and look it up in the old tables.