esledo

Has anyone asked directly from AY if they are going to fix the booking engine and return Value fare type for JFK/KIX/NGO/NRT/YYZ? (And I believe also HAN/XIY has been a mess to book.)

Benzin

I have emailed them one or two times. They responded that my opinion will be directed to the appropriate department. (BTW try to book J and the Finnair matrix gives you the cheapest Y also, that is a feature they say..! Why would I want to see the cheapest Y if I am looking for J tickets?!)

I think Intuition might be on to something saying "AY has now positioned themselves where they easily can decrease seats on Japan, and put to use where they think more money is to be made. The way they have been talking for awhile, that seems to be Chinese destinations. AY's japan-era is over."

Too few planes, more destinations needed. Decrease US ja Japan, increase China. Right?

juanfc

Slightly OT, often when booking in JAL site tickets from HEL to Japan they push me to buy the AY operated flights. Almost always they appear as the default option, even when the price is the same as the JL operated flight.

intuition

Yes I have. They have only two things to say, but OTOH they will dispense these words of wisdom for any question you might have regarding fares to Japan;

"We now have a deeper cooperation with BA and JL."

and

"I will forward your opinions to the relevant department."

It is like talking to a machine.

As far as I can understand this is not a question of "fixing the booking engine", but the intended effects of JV.


Value and pro are gone, and will not be returned. You can only choose "cheapest" or "flexible" ticket and that will not change.

The 'Economy flexible' fare is a bit uncontrollable and you can't tell what it will book into and you will not be informed about how many points it will earn. AY only guarantees you will earn some kind of points.

I did a few dummy bookings and the lowest priced 'Econ flex' will then book into B on AY, thus earning 150%. So in this regard it acts like the "Pro" class minus free seat selection and the complementary upgrade on SH.

On the partners it can book into just about anything earning between 50% and 100%. Thus we can welcome back the great feature of AY+ of paying 1500€ for a LH economy ticket and get 50% of miles.


N.B!
'Economy Premium' is WTP (thus only offered on BA), but can book into anything, ie can earn as little as 25 or 50%. Be warned.


Business saver still exists, and like AY will tell you with emphasis "it is still possible to book", but the opportunity to do so in real life is very limited. For my pattern, which worked fine with the old saver fare rules, I now need to book D fares. Probably also an intended change - a price hike on the most direct routes, and anyone who cares about price can go via LHR.

OH-LGG

I think there are only few people in Finnair who knows about tickets and how these things (bookingclass, miles, ticket types and internet selling) work in real life. And these persons , are they kicked out, I don't know.

intuition

You are probably right. The staff at platinum line didn't immediately know what "value" or "pro" was.

esledo

Hmph, indeed not nice to realise Value has gone for Japan and especially to USA. I've got NGO booked as R fare Value type ticket for October, was done before this JV mess. Will see what points will that post then.

Courmisch

The ticket type is coded in the fare basis, RBAxxx vs RVAxxx since your booking code is R (also PR, SA and BU(?) for the more expensive types). So I would think old bookings are safe from the devaluation.

Now someone needs to ask a real travel agent if the ticket types fares are completely discontinued, or merely hidden (I guess discontinued).

intuition

I have put one TA to the challenge of the unbookable I-fares.

Someone else is welcome to investigate value and pro. I use them only for upgrades, so it wasn't my focus right now.


And speaking of which, upgrade space is extremely limited on japan for the next 5 months. Seats are only available a few mondays for 5 months straight on NRT route. Can those who usually applies upgrades on Japan give some feedback if the situation is worse than normal?

OH-LGG

And on JFK route AY type -codes are: NLXD2EU, B1ERD1, I28SALE, IR28APD1, D2ERD1.
First letter is for bookingclass but where is the type coded?

Or is it so that these JointV -tickets they do not follow AY ticket types?

OH-LGG

To Japan (AY KIX) codes are:

SHTSFI, B2TSFI, ITSFI, D2TSFI

No AY -coded type for tickets.

Courmisch

My point exactly: it is not coded. But it would be on a ticket issued before the JV took effects.
Indeed that means they do not use the ticket types. Presumably, they accrue according to the booking class instead, but figures.

OH-LGG

Yes, esledo is safe with that his type and 100% points credited.

But it means no 100% tickets to JFK available. They should add one category more for K,M,P,T

And this means categories with AY booking engine titles "economy saver, economy flexible...." are secondary information, bookingclass is important. Same to Japan.

Courmisch

As I see it, Value only made sense in contrast to Basic. It makes little to no sense in contrast to Saver, which has similar semi-flexibility to Value. That is why I very much doubt it still exists (to JP and US/CA).

Don't get me wrong! I too would love to continue accruing 100% points on discount economy tickets. But I don't see how I would justify the extra euros to my corporate accountant if it is no more flexible than Saver.

intuition

We will not see any up-front show of booking class or points earned either. They have turned 180° from "simple easy understand fare types" where each type has its own benefits to "easy choice between 'lowest price' and 'some kind of flex' " where only these two things matter. Have a look at BA search engine - these are the choices you get if you go BA.

Adding a label for K,M,P,T will just upset the mighty BA. It will not happen. These are the names agreed upon in the JV, and BA is the one who decided it all.

AY will still sell these fares but they will book into either saver or flex. Presumable saver. If I book D-fares they book into "Business saver", unless I specifically search for full flex business, then the same D-fare books into flex.