intuition

I have great trouble getting AY's booking engine to sell me tickets on AY metal. On matrix I find a lot of availability in I fare, but it is impossible to book on finnair.com. The engine is flooded with BA flights and won't let me choose AY metal unless I go for full price D-fares.
Occasionally it will let me select an I fare on the outwards (but only on the strangest connections or long layovers in HEL), but it is only allowed to be combined with return on BA. It even prefers to sell me outwards on AY codeshare JL and return BA than AY only.


Is it just me or is this the intended effect of the joint venture?

(If I read the papers right, AY is getting paid for capacity, not how many pax they actually ship. So they have changed rules to only sell D fares to Japan?!?)

Benzin

The joint venture also destroyed the Value ticket so no more 100% points. Only Econ Saver and Flex so 25-50% with the same price as before.

But of course Finnair "listened to their customers" who obviously wanted it this way.

Oh and Econ Saver has no refund option, HEL-JFK with Flex you get the option but have to pay +2000e for the ticket.

This must be the other thing Finnair asked us and we liked it...

(EDIT: sorry, OT. HEL-JFK I could get AY metal both ways w Saver. Still, flooded w BA, AA etc. as you noted.)

intuition

Indeed there are new fare rules from june 3.
AY clearly does not want to sell business saver tickets to Japan on AY metal anymore.

Also, many rules have changed for worse (change fee 200€, Death of family member no longer reason for cancel). Also clear that someone else is writing the fare rules for AY nowadays.

intuition

The trick is to find dates where BA does not offer joint venture fares. As soon as there is a BA fare available, AY does not allow a japan ticket to be constructed with business saver segments on AY metal. On those dates, business saver is only offered on BA metal (and there are no codeshares of course), and opting for AY flight number leads to either (or both) outbound or inbound must be in D, pushing the price 350-700€ upwards. As soon as there is no BA fare, AY allows for I fares on AY metal, and price is back down to normal.

Also, the low price saver fares with departure thuesday-thursday seems to be history. Also, all fares has at least a 3 day minimum stay, so weekend trips need full flex tickets.

Courmisch

Are the VA and SA fares really gone and forgotten or are they just not shown on the Finnair website?

intuition

Business saver still exists, it is just that you cannot book it on AY metal if there is BA availability. The AY flights are shown as business saver, but not selectable at any price. You need to select BA flights, at least on one leg, to be able to book business saver.

Courmisch

Hmm OK, so SA may be still available. But I don't see any way to select any VA ticket (or K, M, P, T code) - just as Benzin said :-(

WilcoRoger

Is this only AY website issue or also third-party OTA?

intuition

I had a look too, and it seems they removed the concept of Value altogether from japan destinations.

AY has left walk over in this joint venture. The only business area where AY had an advantage is now in the hands of BA. Why don't they become the nordic Iberia right now...

intuition

All OTAs AFAIK. Haven't tried a "real" TA.

Courmisch

The new Saver fare seems like an hybrid between the former Basic and Value fares. Like Value, it can be cancelled (cheaper) and changed (pricier). But based on the booking code, 50% points like Basic With that in mind, I am more than circumspect about the survival of VA, even from a real human agent

miikkak

Not all the changes are negative. Before all the cheapest AY fares ex-Hel to Japan were nonrefundable but now at least you can change them paying a hefty fee. Loss of value fares is negative for AY Plus members but for BA/AA etc members upfaring didn't make sense as booking class doesn't change.

BTW, can you change the destination paying the change fee?

Benzin

Value has earlier disappeared also from JFK with the "improved" joint fares service.

= any joint business, lose benefits. No matter how Finnair tries to serve it to you. "More options, better pricing..." Hah.

intuition

This is not just 'a loss for AY+ members', that can be taken lightly...

Japan is 26% of AY business.

• They have been pushing people towards AY+ programme and now they are pushing towards fares that does not earn very well on AY+. What is the benefit of being member of AY+ and travel BA? What will this do to loyalty?
  
  
• AY has claimed to have one of the most loyal domestic customer base, something they successfully have turned into a lot of revenue. Now these travellers are taught, by AY, that flying BA via LHR is cheaper. What will that do with AY's position in the market?
  
  
• AY has taught the virtues of a easy transfer at HEL, and are now pushing a quarter of their traveller to LHR.
  
  
• AY has taught the virtues of shortest distance, being via HEL, and are now pushing a quarter of their traveller via LHR, with substantial increase in travel time.
  
  
• AY have worked to set up a fare structure where you can chose to pay a bit more and get a few perks, yielding AY more euros. Now the fare structure for a quarter of their revenue is set to only bring in the bare minimum that can be collected.
  
  
• AY have worked to set up a fare structure that is consistent across the line. Now it depends on your destination. Anyone in marketing knows that something that isn't consistent is impossible to communicate and thus will not work. How long before the fare structure all around will become "lowest fare"?
  
  
• For those with a wish to use points for upgrades, it is suddenly is more difficult and more expensive to redeem.

If they at least have put codeshare numbers on the JV-flights, I could have seen some positives, but I really can't agree that this is better. Price hike, less points, less perks, longer travel times, ... Yeah, you really have to struggle to find the positives.


AY has now positioned themselves where they easily can decrease seats on Japan, and put to use where they think more money is to be made. The way they have been talking for awhile, that seems to be Chinese destinations. AY's japan-era is over.

TTL

What happens to ex-HEL routings? Would be fun to try KUO-HEL-ARN-HEL-LRH-HND-LHR-HEL-ARN-HEL-KUO and save €2000 (in J) instead of boring KUO-HEL-NRT-HEL-KUO ... Or would it suffice to just make the side trip to ARN and fly directly HEL-NRT-HEL for the possible savings?

PS. Did just comparison 01.09. to 08.09.2014. HEL-NRT-HEL must be routed via LHR or FRA and cost €3995 and ARN-HEL-NRT-HEL-ARN €2667. Moreover the perks listed below price classes state only that AY plus points are granted, not the percentage. AY marketing has finally stepped over the limits!