Jan 18, 2014, 10:10 pm
Last edit by: emilio911
What is it?
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)
Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.)
Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
- Insert, swipe, or tap your payment card
- Have the cashier select credit (CR)
- The terminal will display CREDIT ACCOUNT
- If applicable, enter your PIN
- The terminal will display PROCESSING \ PLEASE WAIT
- The terminal will display EXCH <exchange rate> \ <currency> <amount> \ ACCEPT RATE? \ ENTER=YES CLR=NO
- Instruct the cashier to press the yellow CLEAR (CLR) button (If entering a PIN, you can retain the terminal to perform this step yourself. If entering a signature, you can ask for the terminal to control this process, not indicating that it's a chip-and-signature card.)
- The transaction should now process without DCC
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
- Merchants that offer DCC must be compliant with the regulations
- Inform the cardholder that DCC is optional
- Not impose any additional requirements to use local currency
- Not use any language or procedures that may cause the cardholder to choose DCC by default
- Not convert a transaction in the local currency to the card's billing currency after the transaction has completed
- Ensure that the cardholder expressly agrees to DCC
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
- Merchant did not deposit a transaction receipt in the country where the transaction occurred
- Cardholder was not advised that Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) would occur
- Cardholder was refused the choice of paying in the merchant’s local currency
- Merchant processed a credit refund and did not process a reversal or adjustment within 30 calendar days for a transaction receipt processed in error
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
- The cardholder states that he or she was not given the opportunity to choose the desired currency in which the transactions was completed or did not agree to the currency of the transaction, or
- POI currency conversion took place into a currency that is not the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when the goods or services were priced in the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when cash was disbursed in the cardholdeer's billing currency.
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.
)Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) [2014-2016]
Mar 6, 2015, 9:53 am
#1741
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Canada
Programs: BA Gold (OWE), Star Alliance Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,194
Mar 6, 2015, 2:26 pm
#1742
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,061
The bxstardly thing about this express checkout thing is there is no obvious written documentation you *did not consent* - unlike a merchant slip where you ticked and maybe have a carbon merchant copy/taken a snapshot of the thermal merchant copy.
...
As Majuki said it's probably better to insist on card charge on checkout every time. Use the excuse we used in the BoC Shenzhen Futian case - "we are participating in a card promo which requires us to sign a slip".
In this hotel case, I am not sure I can give the hotel the benefit of the doubt.
Mar 7, 2015, 6:57 am
#1743
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cambridge, UK
Posts: 261
I noticed AirBnb charges 3% DCC by default for foreign stays, and of course wanted to avoid it. Found this thread: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2203145
So tried it out and can report it worked with an Arrival+. YMMV due to the billing address matching to the country of currency.
So tried it out and can report it worked with an Arrival+. YMMV due to the billing address matching to the country of currency.
Booked an apartment in France for €103.00. No mention of conversion or DCC on the booking screen. First I saw any conversion was the email confirmation which was in GBP. I even have screenshots of all the forms filled in, right up to the last screen which shows the amount in EUR. It appears if you use a coupon code, the currency conversion section doesn't appear on the website.
About 3% worse than MasterCard's rate. I'm not going to dispute this with my card issuer until after the stay has completed as I don't want the booking to be cancelled.
AirBnb offered a £10 voucher. But this can't be used with their referral scheme, so is unlikely I'll actually use it. And it seems unlikely I will need to book an apartment anytime soon.
Mar 7, 2015, 4:44 pm
#1744
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: NYC
Programs: AA 2MM, Bonvoy LTT, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 14,638
Currently in Germany. I get a chuckle every time an Euronet ATM offers me a USD converted amount. Today, they offer an effective rate of 1.235 USD per EUR. Declined it and Capital One 360 charged me a rate of $1.087175 USD per EUR. Wow! Euronet is effectively charging a 13% transaction fee if you accept their offer.
Mar 8, 2015, 6:51 am
#1745
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,762
Currently in Germany. I get a chuckle every time an Euronet ATM offers me a USD converted amount. Today, they offer an effective rate of 1.235 USD per EUR. Declined it and Capital One 360 charged me a rate of $1.087175 USD per EUR. Wow! Euronet is effectively charging a 13% transaction fee if you accept their offer.
Mar 8, 2015, 1:55 pm
#1746
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Mostly EU & (SE)Asia
Programs: Various shiny cards at hotel chains and airlines
Posts: 1,040
Yup that's more or less today's interbank rate...the amount on the ATM is a month out of date (just shows how far the euro has fallen or the USD has strengthened). But here's the bigger question (out of topic to a degree). Can parity between the euro and USD be far away?
Quite depending on the ECB actions and what Germans&French decide.
It might happen that next Christmas shopping would be cheaper to be made in Europe than in the US.
Mar 9, 2015, 6:20 am
#1747
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Programs: KL Gold, SQ KF Gold, CX Green
Posts: 9,414
Quotes please? Which analysts?
It is already cheaper in Europe. Last time I was in the US 1 euro was 1.3 USD and prices were more or less similar. Of course I am comparing Paris to New York City prices and small town Slovakia to small town Alabama prices.
Mar 10, 2015, 9:22 am
#1748
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Transaction posted:
Looks like PayPal used the correct currency after all, but according to MC's currency tool:
March 5th: 1 GBP = 1.526601 USD
March 6th: 1 GBP = 1.523299 USD
March 9th: 1 GBP = 1.511999 USD
DC's currency rate = 1.523571 USD
I'm guessing they used the 6th's rate + a markup. Not sure if an extra $0.000572 is worth complaining about since PayPal wanted to charge me $1.562548 per GBP.
Looks like PayPal used the correct currency after all, but according to MC's currency tool:
March 5th: 1 GBP = 1.526601 USD
March 6th: 1 GBP = 1.523299 USD
March 9th: 1 GBP = 1.511999 USD
DC's currency rate = 1.523571 USD
I'm guessing they used the 6th's rate + a markup. Not sure if an extra $0.000572 is worth complaining about since PayPal wanted to charge me $1.562548 per GBP.
Mar 10, 2015, 1:37 pm
#1749
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cambridge, UK
Posts: 261
Transaction posted:
March 5th: 1 GBP = 1.526601 USD
March 6th: 1 GBP = 1.523299 USD
March 9th: 1 GBP = 1.511999 USD
DC's currency rate = 1.523571 USD
I'm guessing they used the 6th's rate + a markup. Not sure if an extra $0.000572 is worth complaining about since PayPal wanted to charge me $1.562548 per GBP.
March 5th: 1 GBP = 1.526601 USD
March 6th: 1 GBP = 1.523299 USD
March 9th: 1 GBP = 1.511999 USD
DC's currency rate = 1.523571 USD
I'm guessing they used the 6th's rate + a markup. Not sure if an extra $0.000572 is worth complaining about since PayPal wanted to charge me $1.562548 per GBP.
Back in January, I made three ATM withdrawals in Morocco on my GBP card within three hours using the same ATM. They all posted on the same date with rates of 0.0712, 0.0704 and 0.0701 respectively.
Mar 16, 2015, 10:11 pm
#1750
Join Date: May 2012
Location: SIN
Programs: JL GC | Marriott LT Silver | Global Entry | SQ Silver
Posts: 6,819
I've turned off the DCC function in paypal, took a while to find it hehe.
Mar 16, 2015, 10:47 pm
#1751
Join Date: Nov 2010
Programs: IHG Platinum
Posts: 1,066
My authorized user got DCCed at She & He Hotel in Guangzhou, China (he didn't notice as it was his first time). The DCC rip off rate was 1 USD : 6.02 CNY when the mastercard published rate was 1 USD : 6.2585 CNY on that day. Thanks for this thread-- I lectured him on what to do if it happens again in the future.
Mar 18, 2015, 8:39 pm
#1752
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,801
This may be a little OT, but I have a question about how much card associations collect Foreign Transaction Fee.
Up to this point, my understanding has been that of a Washington Post's article in July 2005:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2900927_2.html
Hong Kong banks have started to add FTFs for HKD transactions. Previously I reported how Citi HK charged 0.4% FTF claiming AE charged it but AE HK denied this.
Recently we got the following claims for Visa:
Bank of East Asia http://www.hongkongcard.com/webedito...2002_25906.jpg
"Effective from 30th June, 2015
0.8% per transaction for Hong Kong dollar transactions made outside of Hong Kong or with any merchant not registered in Hong Kong (e.g. internet transaction). This fee is charged by Visa/Mastercard"
Bank of China (Hong Kong) http://www.boci.com.hk/pdf/eng/spec/...201501_eng.pdf
"All VISA card transaction in Hong Kong Dollars incurred outside Hong Kong will be imposed a reimbursement charge of 0.8% on the transaction amount (the charge is levied by VISA) which will be debited to the card account."
Fubon Bank (Hong Kong) http://www.fubonbank.com.hk/web/doc/...ce150305_e.pdf
"Surcharge on Cross Border Transactions in Hong Kong Dollars - including transactions made outside Hong Kong or with any merchant not registered in Hong Kong (e.g. internet transaction)
A 1% mark-up on the converted transaction amount in Hong Kong Dollars (inclusive of the 0.8%/1% surcharge charged by VISA/MasterCard respectively"
I'm curious - does Visa really charge 0.8%? Or is Bank of East Asia/Bank of China/Fubon making this up just because they can pass Mastercard's fee for Visa's.
Also in Fubon's case has Mastercard increased its fee to 1%?
Up to this point, my understanding has been that of a Washington Post's article in July 2005:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2900927_2.html
This past April, Visa began adding a 1 percent fee onto any foreign transaction, whether dynamically converted to dollars or charged in local currency. But then in June, it suddenly rescinded the move, and went back to the previous policy of charging a 1 percent fee only on transactions made in foreign currency. In a statement, Visa said it made the change to "address issues raised by cardholders, merchants, and member financial institutions." In other words, almost everybody was upset. The company is "now reviewing the fee structure related to single-currency cross-border transactions," according to Rhonda Bentz, Visa's vice president of public affairs.
MasterCard currently charges 1 percent on foreign currency transactions only, but has announced that, in October, it will switch to charging 0.8 percent for all foreign transactions, with an additional 0.2 percent fee for transactions made in foreign currency.
MasterCard currently charges 1 percent on foreign currency transactions only, but has announced that, in October, it will switch to charging 0.8 percent for all foreign transactions, with an additional 0.2 percent fee for transactions made in foreign currency.
Recently we got the following claims for Visa:
Bank of East Asia http://www.hongkongcard.com/webedito...2002_25906.jpg
"Effective from 30th June, 2015
0.8% per transaction for Hong Kong dollar transactions made outside of Hong Kong or with any merchant not registered in Hong Kong (e.g. internet transaction). This fee is charged by Visa/Mastercard"
Bank of China (Hong Kong) http://www.boci.com.hk/pdf/eng/spec/...201501_eng.pdf
"All VISA card transaction in Hong Kong Dollars incurred outside Hong Kong will be imposed a reimbursement charge of 0.8% on the transaction amount (the charge is levied by VISA) which will be debited to the card account."
Fubon Bank (Hong Kong) http://www.fubonbank.com.hk/web/doc/...ce150305_e.pdf
"Surcharge on Cross Border Transactions in Hong Kong Dollars - including transactions made outside Hong Kong or with any merchant not registered in Hong Kong (e.g. internet transaction)
A 1% mark-up on the converted transaction amount in Hong Kong Dollars (inclusive of the 0.8%/1% surcharge charged by VISA/MasterCard respectively"
I'm curious - does Visa really charge 0.8%? Or is Bank of East Asia/Bank of China/Fubon making this up just because they can pass Mastercard's fee for Visa's.
Also in Fubon's case has Mastercard increased its fee to 1%?
Mar 18, 2015, 9:39 pm
#1753
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: MSP
Programs: Delta 1 MM, Platinum. Marriott-Hilton Gold
Posts: 312
I have a UNFCU chip and pin credit card. It is a Visa card. The card benefits claim it does not add any additional FTF over what Visa charges. It thus charges 1% FTF for foreign non USD transactions and 0.8% FTF for foreign USD transactions - e.g., a USD charge in Panama, where USD is used alongside Balboa currency.
Mar 19, 2015, 10:39 am
#1754
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Berlin
Programs: BA Gold; Accor Plat; IHG Diamond-Amb; Meliá & HH & Marriott Gold
Posts: 5,450
A variation that I've not seen reported before:
My online statement (for a Visa card issued in the US) shows an entry for a UK transaction from last weekend. Alarm bells went off as soon as I saw the merchant name showing as "BLAH BLAH HOTEL DCC", but when I checked the amounts it became clear that the exchange rate applied was in fact the standard Visa rate for the day the transaction was processed. So I wasn't ripped off on this occasion.
I've no idea how widespread this is -- it's the first time I've encountered it (or heard of it).
My online statement (for a Visa card issued in the US) shows an entry for a UK transaction from last weekend. Alarm bells went off as soon as I saw the merchant name showing as "BLAH BLAH HOTEL DCC", but when I checked the amounts it became clear that the exchange rate applied was in fact the standard Visa rate for the day the transaction was processed. So I wasn't ripped off on this occasion.
I've no idea how widespread this is -- it's the first time I've encountered it (or heard of it).