doober

You have no idea what the intent of other "grab and gropers" is. It's quite possible that many are getting gratification from being able to do the enhanced pat downs.

Are all screeners being trained in this "technique" or is it just volunteers? From what we have heard so far, not many screeners* are "certified" to assault passengers, so it looks as if it's a volunteer force. And I would be highly suspicious of the motive of anyone who would want to do these aggressive pat downs.

Further, if all screeners are going to be trained in the "technique", then TSA must know that not everyone is going to be comfortable doing it and some will just do it half-heartedly. It's the ones who go full bore whose intent would be suspect.

*It could be that not all screeners are being trained because TSA figures the enhanced pat down is so repulsive that soon all passengers will willingly go through the NoS so there is no need to train all screeners. And that brings us back to the volunteers.

N965VJ

4. Lack of high school diploma

knotyeagle

4. Convicted felonies

Wimpie

TSO's need to be reminded about following orders:

Nuremberg Principles:
Principle I states, "Any person who commits an act which constitutes a crime under international law is responsible therefore and liable to punishment."

Principle II states, "The fact that internal law does not impose a penalty for an act which constitutes a crime under international law does not relieve the person who committed the act from responsibility under international law."

Principle III states, "The fact that a person who committed an act which constitutes a crime under international law acted as Head of State or responsible government official does not relieve him from responsibility under international law."

Principle IV states: "The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him".

This principle could be paraphrased as follows: "It is not an acceptable excuse to say 'I was just following my superior's orders'".

Fondling people's genitals without permission, in public is a CRIME UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW!

Any questions?

doober

I found a partial answer to this question over at PV. It's somewhat garbled but here it is:

This tells me that there is insurrection in the ranks regarding doing these searches. That's great!

So the screeners who perform these searches the proper way are doing so because,

1. They are concerned that they will lose their jobs if they don't do it correctly or

2. Getting some kind of jollies from the search, IOW, intent.

Wimpie

FT's must ask for a comment card EVERY TIME you get a pat-down.
Even if you don't use it, it will make the TSO's (like the above quoted one, who obviously didn't pass high school English) nervous. A good thing!^

I wonder if you would get in trouble by giving them a card with the Nuremberg Principles on it, after you get the comment card?

LuvAirFrance

They should get together with people from all the concerned countries and adopt one standard. As long as people get different treatment in each country they travel to, the disparity will lead to complaints. Far better to get a consensus on what security requires and then follow it globally.

Superguy

But it apparently doesn't disqualify one from obtaining a security position with TSA.

Superguy

Problem is that TSA will likely want to dictate security to the rest of the world as they think they're the only ones that can do it right. Otherwise, they wouldn't be trying to impose their will on other nations with the threat of denying landing/pass thru rights for noncompliance.

InkUnderNails

I am having a bit of difficulty in determining how time required and lack of understanding by the pax permits the temporary relaxation of constitutional rights at the checkpoint. Is this documented in regulation, law or judicial decision? I am not a lawyer or a LEO, so feel free to talk down to me. I want to understand.

What if LEO's had refused the requirements of the Miranda decision because it was too time consuming? Would this have permitted an exemption?

What if I was under arrest and requested an attorney? Would the fact that it would take too long to get one matter?

Were not LEO's required to present the Miranda in alternate languages specifically so that the suspects could understand what was happening to them?

It is my opinion, and only an opinion without weight as I have no authority, that

The informed consent is necessary, again my opinion, as it protects the inspector as well as the inspected. There is no question as to what is required and why. The inspected has the right to withdraw and not proceed through the checkpoint. But, he/she should have an opportunity to refuse based on documented reasons. I do not care how much trouble it is for you. Pull folks from the ridiculous gate searches if you need help.

FriendlySkies

Did a MR to MSY today. They had a large amount of card-stock comment cards at the exit of the checkpoint.. I grabbed a bunch. Perhaps we should put them on the NoS website..

Kiwi Flyer

I look forward to the day USA security is as painless as NZ or Australia domestic.

Spiff

You and me both. NZ and AU domestic security is pleasant and painless. No idiocy and just as safe, if not safer due to employees not being distracted with nonsense/harassing passengers.

IslandBased

Your statement perfectly describes GA.

The times I have been through GA or picking up a pilot things have been very civil. Haven't looked recently, but last time I was over there the most serious piece of equipment in the lobby area was a coffee maker. I am a fan of Airport Watch. I've taxied past wings of fighters, C5As, and assorted other military equipment as a passenger, without a blip. I think I saw a security guard at the Stuart AFB GA when I was rescuing my dog several years ago. Everyone was helpful, friendly, and not a hint of anything terror related. I really felt safe.

Flying commercial is definitely a last resort as a means of travel.

I just had a visual sighting of Marine 1 + 2(?) about 8:55 AM so the vacation may be ending for POTUS.

Superguy

What does this matter? POTUS hasn't cared about anything TSA related other than getting an administrator. Why would he care about this?