May 15, 2014, 8:16 am
Last edit by: StartinSanDiego
This thread is now archived. Please follow the topic here: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase-ultimate-rewards/1986148-chase-closed-my-credit-card-account-s-tales-speculation-2019-thread.html
If you feel your account has been unfairly closed, consider filing a complaint with the Consumer Protection Financial Bureau:
CFPB's complaint form: http://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/
When someone reports an account closure here, a lot of the same questions get asked. It might be useful to answer some questions in advance. This could help figure out what happened or how to proceed:
2013.9
2013.12 2014.6
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...ta-points.html
On 1/4/15, LivelyFL noted that 34 posts have referenced account closures (updated 1/25/15):
1, 55, 80, 108, 117, 129, 146, 165, 182, 212, 221, 222, 232, 235, 262, 272, 281, 326, 364, 410, 411, 428, 475, 477, 482, 513, 552, 586, 620, 648, 656, 662, 714, 718, 784 and 815.
Mortgasm provided more detail as follows:
001 - moarmiles little explaination - 'inconsistent spending'
055 - brettskyg chase gift cards tiny ms
080 - Artemk checking chase gift card, tiny MS, international wires, wall-mart BP
108 - TTnc4me (105 actually) no info
117 - rodsren
129 - Kybosh chase gift card checking
146 - mintcilantro - checking 6k/month MS, BB payments from another ss#, some MO/AP, 7new cards in 90days, short cycling
165 - newcomr - checking
182 - thehawk75 - heavy MSw/other banks,
212 - LRD - 2x spend of 20k /month (on two cards), checking
221 - iceman 77_7, no info
222 - jk2 no info
232 - hitman1420 checking , heavy MS activity (no number)
235 - clearlyanewb checking, MS activity (10k AGC and more), light credit history, 10 recent inquiries
262 - brc01 - shortcycling, some MS (18k/month over a few cards), 1
272 - rambo - 70% MS on 5 cards, WM BP of 16k/month on 5 cards
281 - prestonv - heavy MS - 20k/month on multiple chase cards, heavy WMBP (ink stayed open)
326 - pacupgo - false alarm, no shutdown
364 - edh101985 - tiny MS (bonus only) , 4 chase cards in 6 months,
410 - msetr - lots of freedom/ink ms
411 - standaman360 - international wires (business), million dollar balances,
428 - queensgambit - gambling transactions, UR point transfer from SO, 5 chase apps 3 new chase cc in 45 days, Blogger points coach
475 - dogloverjb - checking, international wires,
477 - ftomasz - 14 inquiries in 8 months, 5 chase, minimal MS, rapid upswing in credit, paying from multiple accounts
482 - liw5215 - Heavy MS, re-entered after 13 months
513 - thegasguru - checking, $3k/month MO to checking, NO MS, AP,
552 - LAXtoWorld - 3 cards in 30 days
586 - adavydov7 checking, $1k APs,
648 - CMHFlyerOH - checking, MO, 3k gift cards
656 - I can see for miles - Maxed UR 5x rewards on Freedom and Ink cards. Chased closed all accounts. Was approved for Ritz Carlton card 14 months later and did nothing unusual with it, other than lower CL from 30K to 10K to free up CL for possible approvals. Two subsequent Chase apps (Chase Ink and Marriott Rewards), on separate dates 3+ months later, were declined for a "previous unsatisfactory relationship ..."
662 - frogdog51 - Chase VGCs (Reapproved in 12 months)
677 - Subdawg - closed for piggybacking
714 - Mamibear - 'abuse' redcard MS
718 - maxswanson - MS, 11 chase cards, traded UR, (reapproved after 12 months)
752 - peaser - "reputational risk" associated with the business (decision reversed later)
757 - uncommonsensical checking, 3 Cashier's Check deposits with quick w/d (the w/d were to pay CHASE credit cards! ridiculous 'loss prevention' dept. gods). All CC's closed 2 days later. Tried EX Office- they seem to have zero power once the Mullah in loss prevention has issued a fatwa (my guess: some 27 year old with a god complex).
762 - knopfler - checking closed (all credit cards closed in both mine and Mrs. Knopflers accounts about three weeks after checking closure)
771 - milemonkey - 'reputational Risk" connected to Attorney General lawsuit
784 - unstable one: 2 cash deposits over 10k to chase checking
815 - dukerau - one time UR point sale, 77% spending is 5x,
If you feel your account has been unfairly closed, consider filing a complaint with the Consumer Protection Financial Bureau:
CFPB's complaint form: http://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/
When someone reports an account closure here, a lot of the same questions get asked. It might be useful to answer some questions in advance. This could help figure out what happened or how to proceed:
- Did you transfer UR points to someone with a different address? Different last name?
- Did you sell UR points to someone?
- Approximately what percentage of your charges earned less than 5x points in the past 12 months?
- Did a Chase or non-Chase bank recently close one of your credit cards?
- Are you using up a large percentage of your credit line on all Chase and non-Chase credit cards?
- Is your total credit line with Chase much higher than with other banks?
- Did you apply for many credit cards or other forms of credit in the past 2 months? ("Many" may be hard to define.)
- If you have a Chase checking account how much did you typically deposit in money orders per month, if any?
- Did you recently start spending a lot more with Chase than in typical months?
- Is your monthly balance frequently close to your credit limit?
- Approximately what percentage of spending was on gift cards this year?
- How much of your bill do you typically pay using WM or KMart bill payment if any?
- Do you have a Chase mortgage or other account that might be profitable to Chase?
- Has your credit score or credit profile changed recently? As in: significantly more debt, more open credit lines, or a large drop in your credit score?
2013.9
2013.12 2014.6
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...ta-points.html
On 1/4/15, LivelyFL noted that 34 posts have referenced account closures (updated 1/25/15):
1, 55, 80, 108, 117, 129, 146, 165, 182, 212, 221, 222, 232, 235, 262, 272, 281, 326, 364, 410, 411, 428, 475, 477, 482, 513, 552, 586, 620, 648, 656, 662, 714, 718, 784 and 815.
Mortgasm provided more detail as follows:
001 - moarmiles little explaination - 'inconsistent spending'
055 - brettskyg chase gift cards tiny ms
080 - Artemk checking chase gift card, tiny MS, international wires, wall-mart BP
108 - TTnc4me (105 actually) no info
117 - rodsren
129 - Kybosh chase gift card checking
146 - mintcilantro - checking 6k/month MS, BB payments from another ss#, some MO/AP, 7new cards in 90days, short cycling
165 - newcomr - checking
182 - thehawk75 - heavy MSw/other banks,
212 - LRD - 2x spend of 20k /month (on two cards), checking
221 - iceman 77_7, no info
222 - jk2 no info
232 - hitman1420 checking , heavy MS activity (no number)
235 - clearlyanewb checking, MS activity (10k AGC and more), light credit history, 10 recent inquiries
262 - brc01 - shortcycling, some MS (18k/month over a few cards), 1
272 - rambo - 70% MS on 5 cards, WM BP of 16k/month on 5 cards
281 - prestonv - heavy MS - 20k/month on multiple chase cards, heavy WMBP (ink stayed open)
326 - pacupgo - false alarm, no shutdown
364 - edh101985 - tiny MS (bonus only) , 4 chase cards in 6 months,
410 - msetr - lots of freedom/ink ms
411 - standaman360 - international wires (business), million dollar balances,
428 - queensgambit - gambling transactions, UR point transfer from SO, 5 chase apps 3 new chase cc in 45 days, Blogger points coach
475 - dogloverjb - checking, international wires,
477 - ftomasz - 14 inquiries in 8 months, 5 chase, minimal MS, rapid upswing in credit, paying from multiple accounts
482 - liw5215 - Heavy MS, re-entered after 13 months
513 - thegasguru - checking, $3k/month MO to checking, NO MS, AP,
552 - LAXtoWorld - 3 cards in 30 days
586 - adavydov7 checking, $1k APs,
648 - CMHFlyerOH - checking, MO, 3k gift cards
656 - I can see for miles - Maxed UR 5x rewards on Freedom and Ink cards. Chased closed all accounts. Was approved for Ritz Carlton card 14 months later and did nothing unusual with it, other than lower CL from 30K to 10K to free up CL for possible approvals. Two subsequent Chase apps (Chase Ink and Marriott Rewards), on separate dates 3+ months later, were declined for a "previous unsatisfactory relationship ..."
662 - frogdog51 - Chase VGCs (Reapproved in 12 months)
677 - Subdawg - closed for piggybacking
714 - Mamibear - 'abuse' redcard MS
718 - maxswanson - MS, 11 chase cards, traded UR, (reapproved after 12 months)
752 - peaser - "reputational risk" associated with the business (decision reversed later)
757 - uncommonsensical checking, 3 Cashier's Check deposits with quick w/d (the w/d were to pay CHASE credit cards! ridiculous 'loss prevention' dept. gods). All CC's closed 2 days later. Tried EX Office- they seem to have zero power once the Mullah in loss prevention has issued a fatwa (my guess: some 27 year old with a god complex).
762 - knopfler - checking closed (all credit cards closed in both mine and Mrs. Knopflers accounts about three weeks after checking closure)
771 - milemonkey - 'reputational Risk" connected to Attorney General lawsuit
784 - unstable one: 2 cash deposits over 10k to chase checking
815 - dukerau - one time UR point sale, 77% spending is 5x,
Chase closed my credit card account(s) [Archived 2013-mid 2019]
Jul 19, 2017, 11:41 am
#1577
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,762
I made a comment to you that I believe there is more to the story. If I offended you, I apologize.
The reason I pressed for more info was to look for data points where someone's account may have been closed for one of the non-standard reasons (manufactured spending, bad credit, carrying excessive balances, etc).
Excessive chargebacks could be a reason. But again, if you're success rate is 100% then I doubt that's the reason. You did indicate that you do a lot of chargebacks. Somebody said, and I agree, I believe I do a chargeback maybe twice per year. If you've had even a few chargebacks denied, due to the many you say you make, I would venture a guess that's the reason for closure.
I know this is the internet, but I believe most here who are pressing here are trying to get a new (maybe different) data point rather than honing their internet sleuthing skills.
It's alarming with your credit score that Chase would shut you down (similar situation).
The reason I pressed for more info was to look for data points where someone's account may have been closed for one of the non-standard reasons (manufactured spending, bad credit, carrying excessive balances, etc).
Excessive chargebacks could be a reason. But again, if you're success rate is 100% then I doubt that's the reason. You did indicate that you do a lot of chargebacks. Somebody said, and I agree, I believe I do a chargeback maybe twice per year. If you've had even a few chargebacks denied, due to the many you say you make, I would venture a guess that's the reason for closure.
I know this is the internet, but I believe most here who are pressing here are trying to get a new (maybe different) data point rather than honing their internet sleuthing skills.
It's alarming with your credit score that Chase would shut you down (similar situation).
As for 100% successful chargeback - well if the chargeback amounts are relatively small, the banks just "eat" them without doing further investigation. One and the only DP OP provided on the nature of chargeback is the rental car's toll by plate. I specifically asked about exactly WHICH portion of the toll by plate related charge he filed a chargeback - the toll itself + the scam fee, or just the scam fee? So far I have not seen any reply.
It does not matter the toll road does not have a toll booth - if it is toll by plate and the OP used it, he IS responsible for the toll involved. Period.
Habitual chargeback filers are flagged. There is no denying of it. While cjargeback is a legally protected right as somehone kept harping on it, if it is determined it is fraudulent chargeback, the law would NOT protect you because there is a malicious intention involved.
Credit score does not mean jack if the bank determines, rightly or wrongly, you are NOT the customer it wants, you are fired. That is why there is the clause in the T&Cs that either parties can terminate the relationship anytime at will, without giving any reason.
That said, if the customer can prove the termination is totally unreasonable, the customer can initiate actions via some channels to try to get a resolution. This works primarily when points are confiscated. Chase has learned that it is much less costly to give people a 30 days time to claim their points, and the bank even refunds the AFs pro rata so there is no ground for the disgruntled customers to sue. Barclays and to an extend, US Bank, seem to lean towards Chase position.
Citi and BofA seem still hold the notion of the old books but as many DPs shown that once the customer initiates a legal process, Citi would settle before the court date.
Jul 19, 2017, 11:45 am
#1578
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: St. Louis, MO
Programs: Southwest Companion Pass
Posts: 790
Maybe you can write a contract to make you believe extortion is legal, but it's not. I'm a practicing attorney, and I can assure you these charges are not legal and would never hold up in court. Extortion is never legal. I can put it in a contract between you and me, word it anyway I'd like, have you sign it, and I still cannot enforce it. There's a reason rental car companies do not pursue people who challenge them on these frivolous charges, and do not send you to a collections agency. Because they know they are not legal charges, and could probably lead to a lot worse of a situation for them than for you.
This is across the board knowledge of people who rent cars as often as I do. Trust me, if anything THESE transactions were not the reason my accounts were all closed.
And for the record when you do dispute these transactions, the rental car companies are the ones who cave, and do not pursue them with the bank because they know they cannot win.
This is across the board knowledge of people who rent cars as often as I do. Trust me, if anything THESE transactions were not the reason my accounts were all closed.
And for the record when you do dispute these transactions, the rental car companies are the ones who cave, and do not pursue them with the bank because they know they cannot win.
Jul 19, 2017, 11:46 am
#1579
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,762
Adding a small amount above the actual toll is allowed because of the additional costs involved - anyone interested it can google.
Charging the daily scam fee is a way the rental car companies to gouge customers. I am all for the chargeback on this scam fee.
But you have not told us exactly how you file the charge back.
Jul 19, 2017, 11:47 am
#1580
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: SEA, FLL, Martha’s Vineyard
Programs: AS MVPGold75K, Hilton Gold, IHG Platinum, Pan Am million-miler
Posts: 2,019
I really don't see how this is extortion since it's something you agreed to. I mean it's not like someone put a gun to your head and said rent this car or else. Also, since Chase refuses to tell you why your accounts were closed, you really have no idea why it happened.
As for your last sentence, we have no idea. You are right.
Jul 19, 2017, 11:49 am
#1581
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Upper Sternistan
Posts: 10,044
Just to rephrase, I'm understanding that it's not the toll that you find to be a problem, it's specifically the fee that the rental agency adds to the toll when they charge you. It's the rental agency's layer of fees at issue. You accept the underlying toll itself.
Is that right?
Jul 19, 2017, 11:51 am
#1582
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: SEA, FLL, Martha’s Vineyard
Programs: AS MVPGold75K, Hilton Gold, IHG Platinum, Pan Am million-miler
Posts: 2,019
OK. Thanks. I understand more now.
Just to rephrase, I'm understanding that it's not the toll that you find to be a problem, it's specifically the fee that the rental agency adds to the toll when they charge you. It's the rental agency's layer of fees at issue. You accept the underlying toll itself.
Is that right?
Just to rephrase, I'm understanding that it's not the toll that you find to be a problem, it's specifically the fee that the rental agency adds to the toll when they charge you. It's the rental agency's layer of fees at issue. You accept the underlying toll itself.
Is that right?
Jul 19, 2017, 11:54 am
#1583
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Upper Sternistan
Posts: 10,044
So if the charge from the rental agency is $50.50 comprised of a 50 cent toll with a $50 fee on top, you chargeback $50, and not the total $50.50?
Jul 19, 2017, 11:56 am
#1584
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,762
Do you just chargeback the portion of the scam fee or the whole thing?
Jul 19, 2017, 12:04 pm
#1585
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: SEA, FLL, Martha’s Vineyard
Programs: AS MVPGold75K, Hilton Gold, IHG Platinum, Pan Am million-miler
Posts: 2,019
I chargeback in a way that is within the law, and in a manner in which I've never lost to a rental car company, or been pursued by them for additional charges. I pay for the toll itself, yes.
I'm not gonna continue answering questions on this topic because frankly I'm growing tired of it, and this is not the reason my accounts were closed.
I'm not gonna continue answering questions on this topic because frankly I'm growing tired of it, and this is not the reason my accounts were closed.
Jul 19, 2017, 12:36 pm
#1586
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, Hyatt Globalist; United Club Lietime (sic) Member
Posts: 21,624
Maybe you can write a contract to make you believe extortion is legal, but it's not. I'm a practicing attorney, and I can assure you these charges are not legal and would never hold up in court. Extortion is never legal. I can put it in a contract between you and me, word it anyway I'd like, have you sign it, and I still cannot enforce it. There's a reason rental car companies do not pursue people who challenge them on these frivolous charges, and do not send you to a collections agency. Because they know they are not legal charges, and could probably lead to a lot worse of a situation for them than for you.
Jul 19, 2017, 12:44 pm
#1587
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: SEA, FLL, Martha’s Vineyard
Programs: AS MVPGold75K, Hilton Gold, IHG Platinum, Pan Am million-miler
Posts: 2,019
That was superbly explained. One nitpick: I've always seen these practices referred to as Contracts of Adhesion, never as Extortion. Your experience indicates that the rental car companies don't want to fight it in court. However your tactic does impose costs on the issuing bank which is not at fault. They would seem to be within their rights to fire you as an unusually costly customer.
Just a side point on legal stuff since you complimented me (thank you). Think of it this way for "Contracts of Adhesion:" if I drive next to you with a sign on my car that says "if you drive near me, and I hit you it's not my fault" is that legally binding? It's the same scenario.
Jul 19, 2017, 1:53 pm
#1588
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: ZOA, SFO, HKG
Programs: UA 1K 0.9MM, Marriott Gold, HHonors Gold, Hertz PC, SBux Gold, TSA Pre✓
Posts: 13,811
Surprisingly - Chase is very good doing its jobs in this case.
Maybe you can write a contract to make you believe extortion is legal, but it's not. I'm a practicing attorney, and I can assure you these charges are not legal and would never hold up in court. Extortion is never legal. I can put it in a contract between you and me, word it anyway I'd like, have you sign it, and I still cannot enforce it. There's a reason rental car companies do not pursue people who challenge them on these frivolous charges, and do not send you to a collections agency. Because they know they are not legal charges, and could probably lead to a lot worse of a situation for them than for you.
Thanks for agreeing with at least once.
Jul 24, 2017, 2:55 am
#1589
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: SEA, FLL, Martha’s Vineyard
Programs: AS MVPGold75K, Hilton Gold, IHG Platinum, Pan Am million-miler
Posts: 2,019
So I got a letter in the mail today from Chase explaining why they closed all my accounts. The reasons given, despite my very high credit score of 805, were:
-To many accounts open in few time
-to many requests/review for credits
I assume the second means too many chargebacks. They are making a business decision as a private financial institution that they no longer want me as a customer. That's fine, and that's their right. I just find it a little bit unbelievable after fostering a very successful business relationship with them for over a decade that they would do this to me. But again that is their decision, and I'm sure they had it typed into some formula or something.
I guess the lesson here is don't exercise your right to charge back too much. You should allow businesses to take advantage of you or Chase will close your accounts.
Citi here I come...
-To many accounts open in few time
-to many requests/review for credits
I assume the second means too many chargebacks. They are making a business decision as a private financial institution that they no longer want me as a customer. That's fine, and that's their right. I just find it a little bit unbelievable after fostering a very successful business relationship with them for over a decade that they would do this to me. But again that is their decision, and I'm sure they had it typed into some formula or something.
I guess the lesson here is don't exercise your right to charge back too much. You should allow businesses to take advantage of you or Chase will close your accounts.
Citi here I come...
Last edited by Edgerfly; Jul 24, 2017 at 8:22 am
Jul 24, 2017, 8:19 am
#1590
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,833
When you chargeback at a significantly greater frequency than the average customer, the end result is very predictable.
When Citi cancels your accounts, what is your plan?
When Citi cancels your accounts, what is your plan?