Jun 19, 2017, 9:34 pm
Last edit by: ernestnywang
oneworld Multi-Carrier Awards Wiki v0.1
Rules
1. You need two non CX/KA carriers
2. You are allowed 5 stopovers, 2 transits (<=24hrs) and 2 open jaws. You can use your stopover allowance as a transit, possibly by asking for it to be ticketed as such (extra taxes?). [Using stopover for transit is no longer possible since 2021/22?]
3. The open-jaw points do not count towards your stopover allowance. Neither does the final city on the itinerary
4. You must start and end in the same country.
5. To determine the miles required, add up all flight sectors on your itinerary and look up the award chart (ignore the distance between open-jaw points). gcmap.com is handy, though best to go via asiamiles' calculator.
6. Co-terminals (NRT/HND, LHR/LCY) do not count as an open-jaw (takes up 1 stopover/transit allowance).
If an itinerary clears the above, it is valid, though you may have to argue a lot back and forth. Keep your patience suit on and and keep referring to the terms & conditions ("What in the T&Cs makes this invalid" tends to work).
For the examples below, x=transit, o=stopover, and capitalized alphabets represent airports.
Some valid routings that have commonly been pushed back on
1. "You cannot go through the start, destination, or enroute point more than once". A-oB-oA-oC-oD-A is a valid itinerary.
2. "An open-jaw point is a stopover". A-oB-oC-D//E-oF-G//H-oI-oJ-A is valid, as is A-oB-xC-D//E-oF-G//H-xI-oJ-oK-oL-A.
Other tips
1. Tickets are valid for 1 year from the date of issuance. Potentially a pain when planning that dream RTW trip involving LATAM/AA which release seats 330 days out, that you're trying to tee-in with CX award seats released a year out.
2. A combination of BA/AA/LATAM/QF sites works well to research availability (look for saver availability)
3. You can go crazy on the routings- A-oB-A//C-oD-C//E-A is fine if A,B,E are in country/Region # 1, and, C,D are at the other end of the world.
Rules
1. You need two non CX/KA carriers
2. You are allowed 5 stopovers, 2 transits (<=24hrs) and 2 open jaws. You can use your stopover allowance as a transit, possibly by asking for it to be ticketed as such (extra taxes?). [Using stopover for transit is no longer possible since 2021/22?]
3. The open-jaw points do not count towards your stopover allowance. Neither does the final city on the itinerary
4. You must start and end in the same country.
5. To determine the miles required, add up all flight sectors on your itinerary and look up the award chart (ignore the distance between open-jaw points). gcmap.com is handy, though best to go via asiamiles' calculator.
6. Co-terminals (NRT/HND, LHR/LCY) do not count as an open-jaw (takes up 1 stopover/transit allowance).
If an itinerary clears the above, it is valid, though you may have to argue a lot back and forth. Keep your patience suit on and and keep referring to the terms & conditions ("What in the T&Cs makes this invalid" tends to work).
For the examples below, x=transit, o=stopover, and capitalized alphabets represent airports.
Some valid routings that have commonly been pushed back on
1. "You cannot go through the start, destination, or enroute point more than once". A-oB-oA-oC-oD-A is a valid itinerary.
2. "An open-jaw point is a stopover". A-oB-oC-D//E-oF-G//H-oI-oJ-A is valid, as is A-oB-xC-D//E-oF-G//H-xI-oJ-oK-oL-A.
Other tips
1. Tickets are valid for 1 year from the date of issuance. Potentially a pain when planning that dream RTW trip involving LATAM/AA which release seats 330 days out, that you're trying to tee-in with CX award seats released a year out.
2. A combination of BA/AA/LATAM/QF sites works well to research availability (look for saver availability)
3. You can go crazy on the routings- A-oB-A//C-oD-C//E-A is fine if A,B,E are in country/Region # 1, and, C,D are at the other end of the world.
oneworld Multi-Carrier Awards - sharing ideas
Jun 16, 2015, 7:11 am
#61
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NYC/SIN
Programs: CX DM, SQ KF
Posts: 2,171
oneworld Multi-Carrier Awards - sharing ideas
Think AA42 is same flight number, but with a change of planes, at ORD..
If you get an award seat, you'll only be charged the SEA-CDG mileage, I think.
Don't think 737s fly TATL
If you get an award seat, you'll only be charged the SEA-CDG mileage, I think.
Don't think 737s fly TATL
Jun 16, 2015, 9:53 pm
#62
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Australia
Programs: SPG Gold, CX MPC Gold, Hilton Hhonors Gold
Posts: 234
Hi team
My two data points are:
1. PER-HKG-AMM-TLV // AMM-LHR-JFK-LHR-MAD-EAS // ALG-DOH-PER --> this one took a lot of yelling, screaming and stress to get past the call centre and then ticketing. The issue I had was counting transfers as stopovers. Eventually got there.
2. PER-HKG-PVG-HKG-JFK-ORD-YYZ-HKG-PER-HKG-PER --> another example of returning to origin (PER) and then tacking on further flights.
In both instances I spent hours with the call centre trying to find J availability on CX and partner airlines. I hear that it is best to do your homework on availability first. But how do you do this? What engines, programs, websites are best to do this?
Hoping jagmeets and Psychiatrist see my post
Thanks
My two data points are:
1. PER-HKG-AMM-TLV // AMM-LHR-JFK-LHR-MAD-EAS // ALG-DOH-PER --> this one took a lot of yelling, screaming and stress to get past the call centre and then ticketing. The issue I had was counting transfers as stopovers. Eventually got there.
2. PER-HKG-PVG-HKG-JFK-ORD-YYZ-HKG-PER-HKG-PER --> another example of returning to origin (PER) and then tacking on further flights.
In both instances I spent hours with the call centre trying to find J availability on CX and partner airlines. I hear that it is best to do your homework on availability first. But how do you do this? What engines, programs, websites are best to do this?
Hoping jagmeets and Psychiatrist see my post
Thanks
I asked a similar question on FT last year and was told that we are not allowed to return to origin country. Now this has got me started thinking again and having read the T&Cs numerous times, I can't find anywhere where it says that we are not allowed to return to the origin country.
Does that mean we can do, as an example,
a) HKG-HGH KA 1st openjaw
PVG-HKG KA 1st stopover
HKG-LHR BA 2nd stopover
LHR-HKG CX 3rd stopover
HKG-SYD QF 4th stopover
SYD-HKG QF 5th stopover
HKG-PVG KA 2nd openjaw
HGH-HKG KA
b) PVG-HKG KA 1st stopover
HKG-LHR BA 2nd stopover
LHR-HKG BA 3rd stopover
HKG-SYD QF 4th stopover
SYD-HKG QF 5th stopover
HKG-HGH KA 1st openjaw
NGB-HKG KA 2nd openjaw
Should both a) and b) turn out to be illegitimate, then would it be possible to add CAN to the start/finish of the SYD sectors so to avoid "return to origin country" as I understand HKG and CAN are treated as two countries under AM rules (please correct if this is not correct).
Apologies if either/both of these are not allowed, but as with the norm on FT, we are all simply trying to maximise the value of our hard earned miles.
Cheers.
Last edited by Iamhappy; Jun 16, 2015 at 11:01 pm Reason: Added CAN as an idea to avoid "return to origin country"
Jun 16, 2015, 10:24 pm
#63
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Anywhere I need to be.
Programs: OW Emerald, *A Gold, NEXUS, GE, ABTC/APEC, South Korea SES, eIACS, PP, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 16,046
Transit: upto 24hrs (not sure how it works for intra US- not that you have any). Stopover can be of any length..as can be the 'gap' between the 2 cities in an open jaw. This subject to the ticket validity- which is 1yr from the date of issue (not a problem normally, as all sectors would be within 1y..but just in case you want to change a date to one later on, once availability opens up).
The 5 stopovers allowance can be used for transits if needed( ie, you can have >2 stops of less than 24h, with a correspondingly lower number of stopovers- not sure if they will just 'allow' or issue the ticket such that a stopover is less than 24h - it can be, just that you'd have to pay the taxes etc.)
The 5 stopovers allowance can be used for transits if needed( ie, you can have >2 stops of less than 24h, with a correspondingly lower number of stopovers- not sure if they will just 'allow' or issue the ticket such that a stopover is less than 24h - it can be, just that you'd have to pay the taxes etc.)
Jun 17, 2015, 12:54 am
#64
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NYC/SIN
Programs: CX DM, SQ KF
Posts: 2,171
oneworld Multi-Carrier Awards - sharing ideas
@Iamhappy - I think that the first itinerary is valid, but you will require oodles of patience in arguing this out with the MPC. For the second one, you'll need to end back in China...given that you've maxed the stopovers, perhaps just drop the last segment- it would still be awesome value.
@AA_EXP09 - thanks!
I know that a stopover allowance can be used as a transit (have done itins with > 2 transits), but not clear of the reverse is true (now I doubt that they'd allow).
@AA_EXP09 - thanks!
I know that a stopover allowance can be used as a transit (have done itins with > 2 transits), but not clear of the reverse is true (now I doubt that they'd allow).
Jun 18, 2015, 8:28 am
#65
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Australia
Programs: SPG Gold, CX MPC Gold, Hilton Hhonors Gold
Posts: 234
@Iamhappy - I think that the first itinerary is valid, but you will require oodles of patience in arguing this out with the MPC. For the second one, you'll need to end back in China...given that you've maxed the stopovers, perhaps just drop the last segment- it would still be awesome value.
@AA_EXP09 - thanks!
I know that a stopover allowance can be used as a transit (have done itins with > 2 transits), but not clear of the reverse is true (now I doubt that they'd allow).
@AA_EXP09 - thanks!
I know that a stopover allowance can be used as a transit (have done itins with > 2 transits), but not clear of the reverse is true (now I doubt that they'd allow).
Cheers!
Jun 19, 2015, 9:32 pm
#66
Join Date: Apr 2015
Programs: Asia Miles, Enrich, Krisflyer, HHonors, SPG, AccorPlus
Posts: 15
How does Asia Miles determine the mileage? In my case, my intention is to visit Paris and Seattle. I can start/end either from KUL or SIN. Plugging in KUL-CDG-SEA-KUL or SIN-CDG-SEA-SIN gives me just under 20,000 miles. If I plug in the transits the mileage will exceed 20,000. Help anyone??
Jun 19, 2015, 9:40 pm
#67
Join Date: Nov 2006
Programs: MPC,CA,MU,AF
Posts: 8,171
How does Asia Miles determine the mileage? In my case, my intention is to visit Paris and Seattle. I can start/end either from KUL or SIN. Plugging in KUL-CDG-SEA-KUL or SIN-CDG-SEA-SIN gives me just under 20,000 miles. If I plug in the transits the mileage will exceed 20,000. Help anyone??
Jun 19, 2015, 11:21 pm
#68
Suspended
Join Date: May 2006
Location: HKG
Programs: A3, TK *G; JL JGC; SPG,Hilton Gold
Posts: 9,952
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 7_0_2 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/537.51.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/7.0 Mobile/11A501 Safari/9537.53)
The key of tgese trips is to bunch in as many trips as it is convinient for you. Look beyong the 20000 miles. Where else would you be going?
Try look into this
Kul-ocdg-osea-xhkg-osin-hnd//kix-osin-xhkg-olhr-ams//cdg-kul
The key of tgese trips is to bunch in as many trips as it is convinient for you. Look beyong the 20000 miles. Where else would you be going?
Try look into this
Kul-ocdg-osea-xhkg-osin-hnd//kix-osin-xhkg-olhr-ams//cdg-kul
Jul 5, 2015, 8:01 am
#69
Join Date: Apr 2015
Programs: Asia Miles, Enrich, Krisflyer, HHonors, SPG, AccorPlus
Posts: 15
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 7_0_2 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/537.51.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/7.0 Mobile/11A501 Safari/9537.53)
The key of tgese trips is to bunch in as many trips as it is convinient for you. Look beyong the 20000 miles. Where else would you be going?
Try look into this
Kul-ocdg-osea-xhkg-osin-hnd//kix-osin-xhkg-olhr-ams//cdg-kul
The key of tgese trips is to bunch in as many trips as it is convinient for you. Look beyong the 20000 miles. Where else would you be going?
Try look into this
Kul-ocdg-osea-xhkg-osin-hnd//kix-osin-xhkg-olhr-ams//cdg-kul
KUL-oLHR-oSIN-oSYD-AKL//WEL-xSYD-oSIN-xHKG-oYVR-LHR//CDG-KUL
Jul 5, 2015, 9:34 am
#70
Join Date: May 2012
Location: SIN
Programs: JL GC | Marriott LT Silver | Global Entry | SQ Silver
Posts: 6,819
Jul 7, 2015, 3:55 am
#71
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Australia
Programs: SPG Gold, CX MPC Gold, Hilton Hhonors Gold
Posts: 234
Trips to Oz
With a large number of trips to Oz needed in the future, can someone please shed some light onto the following and advise if it is legitimate according to AM?
HKG-BNE QF 1st openjaw
SYD-HKG CX 1st stopover
HKG-SYD CX 2nd stopover
SYD-HKG CX 3rd stopover
HKG-MEL CX 2nd openjaw
SYD-HKG CX 4th stopover
HKG-SYD CX 5th stopover
SYD-KUL MH 1st transfer
KUL-HKG CX
(I know that I will get an official answer if I was to call AM/MPC direct, but just thought it's best to leave the AM/MPC people to those who need them more urgently).
Cheers!
HKG-BNE QF 1st openjaw
SYD-HKG CX 1st stopover
HKG-SYD CX 2nd stopover
SYD-HKG CX 3rd stopover
HKG-MEL CX 2nd openjaw
SYD-HKG CX 4th stopover
HKG-SYD CX 5th stopover
SYD-KUL MH 1st transfer
KUL-HKG CX
(I know that I will get an official answer if I was to call AM/MPC direct, but just thought it's best to leave the AM/MPC people to those who need them more urgently).
Cheers!
Jul 7, 2015, 4:08 am
#72
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,800
I stopped reading here. You started at HKG *and* backtracked there. Anecdotally MPO will refuse to ticket any such redemption even if it is not explicitly prohibited by the program T&C (and what recourse do you have? Small claims?). Start somewhere else (Manila!) and position yourself there.
Jul 7, 2015, 7:33 am
#73
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Australia
Programs: SPG Gold, CX MPC Gold, Hilton Hhonors Gold
Posts: 234
I stopped reading here. You started at HKG *and* backtracked there. Anecdotally MPO will refuse to ticket any such redemption even if it is not explicitly prohibited by the program T&C (and what recourse do you have? Small claims?). Start somewhere else (Manila!) and position yourself there.
Posts #4, #5, #9, #40, #44 show that backtracking has been done in the past. And since my earlier post (#62) I have actually emailed AM and got a response in writing confirming that the following (which involves 3 different trips from HKG, with a few months in between them) is indeed allowed.
31 July: From Hong Kong to London on BA
10 August: From London to Hong Kong on CX
25 December: From Hong Kong to Tokyo on JL
29 December: From Tokyo to Hong Kong on CX
12 May 2016: From Hong Kong to Brisbane on QF
19 May 2016: From Brisbane to Hong Kong on QF
I know that you are a regular on FT and HKcard and most of the time provide constructive/positive input to fellow FTer and HKcarder. Trust that you will have something constructive/positive next time round.
Jul 7, 2015, 8:03 am
#74
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,800
I suggested you start from Manila. I was being constructive.
None of #4, #5, #9, 40 and #44 started from HKG. You can backtrack, even backtrack your origin, provided your origin wasn't HKG. Hence the "*and*"
I wouldn't give AM responses much weight - I've been told QR-QR's been possible, til I told them to put it in my itin http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/catha...difficult.html . Then all of a sudden it doesn't work.
You may try ticketing the itin you described above - you don't even need all sectors. I believe by the time you tried actually booking the first backtrack they will stop you.
Mea culpa. See post #77
None of #4, #5, #9, 40 and #44 started from HKG. You can backtrack, even backtrack your origin, provided your origin wasn't HKG. Hence the "*and*"
You may try ticketing the itin you described above - you don't even need all sectors. I believe by the time you tried actually booking the first backtrack they will stop you.
Mea culpa. See post #77
Last edited by percysmith; Jul 7, 2015 at 9:15 am
Jul 7, 2015, 8:39 am
#75
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 3,208
This is the type of post/tone that, while it won't get you banned, will make other FTers think twice before they take their time to reply to anything of yours in the future.
percysmith has been nothing but helpful, and he showed that again in his subsequent reply