interesting. Hopefully i'll find out soon. i'll report back.

Hmmm...

What your basically saying is the soft product isn't up to scratch (eg. service). The seat, IFE etc. & all that the hype is based upon is up to scratch then?

They are still a young airline & going to experience teething problems. I'm a bit miffed with coach (sorry...'main cabin') passengers using F lavs but that can easily be rectified. A snazzy curtain & an authoritive FA should do the trick. I'm sure lounges are in the pipeline & priority baggage is something worth writing about. I wouldn't completely discount them forever, but I'd email them, explain what you thought & await a response & chase them up until their response is satisfactory.

To me, it seems miles ahead of your bog standard F class...remember as well, some people would kill for a $500 VX voucher.

It won't be EQM, at least not yet

I personally am a big fan of Virgin America, especially its affordable first class cabin. Even at $699, it is still a much bargain compared to AA or UA. Just to clarify, AA has only matched VX F fare with its 7 day advance non-refundable business class fares. Comparing AA J with VX F, VX wins by offering a more comfortable first class seat, abundant amount of snacks, and a really excellent entertainment system.

Anyhow, VX is still a low coast airline LCC... so sometimes we need to keep our expectations to a reasonable level. Priority baggage handling is one area of my complaint as well... but then most legendary airlines have the priority tags, but they only worked 50% of all times when it comes to domestic flights. About lounge access, most US domestic first class tickets don't come with that benefits anyway except Alaska providing board room access with a full fare purchased first class ticket and AA and UA offering lounge access to its full fare first class passenger on a three-class cabin on the premium transcon routes (JFK to LAX and SFO, and return - paid or mileage, but not upgrade).

About FAM (Federal Air Marshalls) issues, you will get the same speech when you fly on the legendary or any US airlines as well. They honestly can't tell you, but as frequent flyers, you know they are the FAMs. Most airlines have to withhold two seats for sale these days in first class. I guess VX is too new but I am sure they are smart enough to without two seats for sale for now, and there are reasons for them to add another row of first class seat.

About maintaining a separate first class cabin, I think VX does the best that they can within the limitation. They cannot install curtain except the transparent one, which they may want to consider. The purple transparent separator is very nice indeed. If a hard wall separator is used, the cabin will be less airy.

I have to agree that the compensation is not great, but on Alaska, they only offer you an apology and a upgrade certificate for you to use in the future. I don't even know if AA or UA offer any compensation on the same situation. VX seems to be very generous by offering $500 voucher though.

But I somehow feel the government should pay for those downgrade passengers in some ways right?

How to spot a FAM?
Usually well-built men in the 20s and 30s with a strong build, wearing business attire and were the first ones to board. They usually seat at the aisle seat in bulkhead and second row, and during flight, they are treated like regular passengers but they decline all alcohol requests (or not being offered one). They usually stay awake throughout the flight and often reading books or manuals. You also often spotted them boarding the flight in advance. I still think that cover is too lame. TSA really should come up with something better.

Sorry to hear about your VX experience! I hope VX can right the wrong!

Carfield

As an advocate of Virgin America (I believe they are the new face of air travel and may save us all from the purgatory of legacy style flying) I have a few things to mention:

1. VX's First Class product is far and beyond anything I see on domestic legacy carriers. While opinions may vary - it certainly deserves a better ranking than "budget." While I have never flown P.S. (live in D.C.) I have heard that it slightly outranks VX but it would be similar to comparing International F class to Domestic F. Oranges for Oranges and fair should be fair. Or in this case fare should be fare as P.S. F class is far more expensive (and really not worth it for a 5 hour flight unless your ATM is a Black Amex)

2. I have never been on a domestic carrier that did not have coach passengers using the F bathroom. And really, as long as they are not lining up: who cares? I have often been n the first row of coach, blocked by FA's carts while needing to expel from my needy prostate. .... @#$! happens...literally.

3. It sucks that you were bumped down. This is, I agree, an atrocity for any airline, especailly if you paid for F. But if it turns out to be an Air Marshall it ranks up there with taking your damn shoes off for the x-ray...sucks and all...but as long as the Government looks at everything from the obvious and ignores the obvious we must accept it or be shipped to Cuban shores for questioning. If this was not an Air Marshall I agree that you deserve an explanation and far more compensation than a refund of the difference. I encourage you to pursue and post the outcome.

4. No domestic carrier allows lounge access on paid F unless you are a member of the club (Which I think is absurd). I should say that at least I know that United and American don't allow this. If I am correct (and I stand ready to be corrected) this is an unfair comparison. Who cares about lounges anyway...airport bars are far more interesting and interactive.


That's my two (maybe three) cents. I hope that you will give VX another chance as they and Jet Blue may be the last hope for a new level of dignity and graciousness while cruising over Kansas.

Cheers.

I'd like to know, since you received a refund of your fare plus the $500 travel credit, what other accommodation you feel is appropriate?

i hear ya'll. i got a call today from virgin america corporate. again.... an apology. again, could not offer an explanation.

look, i have no problem with security. all for it. happily take my shoes off. but i am prepared for this. security is discussed on your ticket. virgin's web sites informs you that you need to prepare for it. so to your point that this is an inconvenience we all have to put up with... i don't buy it. i am prepared for screening and going shoe less through security. i encourage it. let's promote safe flying.

however, an airline that is starting up needs to make an impression. they shoved their promos down my throat with constant e-mails. basically saying "please try us... you'll love us". so i did. i could have flown to nyc on ua p.s. service. but i went with vx. I wanted a fun experience. the trip was supposed to be fun for me and my wife. they have a responsibility now. i booked months and months ago. marshall or no marshall they need to stand behind their product. they ruined the experience of our trip. they offer NO explanation but just rejection. They simply say "whoops... sorry buddy".

as for the people saying all domestic carriers allow coach to use the f class lavs... nope. i flew a lot last summer on AA to st. louis from LAX. they close the curtin. never saw a y class person up there. never even thought about it.

i also don't think a curtin would have any affect on air circulation as discussed above.

I'm honestly telling you... yes... seats nice. yes IFE nice (but available in coach too). Food okay. But far far from my AA experience (which by the way, with my am ex platinum allows lounge access and a lounge makes a BIG difference). VX feels like a budget airline trying to offer an f class but really not up to snuff with it. Given all that... they offer a good coach product. Let them be like south west and stick to coach. it works and i think people need airlines to compete for their benefit. But vx F class is bad. sorry.

i plan on taking this fight through vx corporate for as long as it takes to get my refund. i'll lobby congress if i need to. don't care. they messed up. they need to fix it.

Sorry to hear your experience Shadabing!

Good to hear that VX called you personally, but once again, they could not tell you if there was a FAM on board - before and after the flight! Same apply to other airlines! So no matter how hard you push or even file a lawsuit (maybe the judge will permit the airline to tell you then)! They cannot tell you that there was a FAM on board! I am sure if it is an overbook situation or other similar situation, they will not hesitate to tell you about it! They really can't get away with it! After hearing the responses from VX and how they really can't tell you the reason, I am convinced that it is a FAM issue, rather than overbooking or VIP or seat malfunction!

But one thing you should push is "Why are your wife and you selected in this case to give up your F seats?" I assume that you are bumped off because you are the last two passengers checked in, which should be the case, but if you two are bumped off because you bought the promotional fares, I actually will be more upset about it and maybe grounds for getting a bit more travel voucher! Since VX has no elites, there must be some kinds of criteria.

Compensation - I really don't know what is appropriate in your case! They give you a $500 travel voucher, which is good for an one way ticket from LA to JFK in F, which also covers the total fare on your ticket. I think it is actually very generous of them. Last time when I flew AS on a F fare from SFO to SEA, my flight got canceled and they gave me $200 voucher and one upgrade certificate, which is pretty common these days for legendary airlines. Even if you ask for a fare difference between F and Y, it is hard to determine the amount! I am also under the impression that VX tickets are non-refundable and even F tickets. If you don't use your F tickets, they will just return the fares into a VX credit account, and you can use that chunk of money for another VX flight within a year. In Y, you just get $40 deducted from the amount. So VX doesn't really give cash refunds, somewhat same as Jetblue!

But to clarify, I assume that you are seeking the actual refund of the fare differences between F and Y right?

Sometimes I wonder if DOT or FAA or TSA should really come up with a compensation package for passengers who got bumped because of a FAM... or at least an official guideline... So this kind of cases can be resolved in a consistent manner, rather than depending on the individual airline.

About VX, I really think it is beyond a budget airline and the whole first class experience surpasses my recent AA and UA flights including p.s, American flagship transcon (if they still call LAX/SFO-JFK transcon that name). The F/As are friendly and can't be more helpful! As an EXP, AA treats me alright, but VX's flights are just that much better that I actually have flown VX on my couple recent transcon flights in F and Y. I think the food is a bit weak compared to AA flagship dinner, but these days, AA transcon lunch is just ridiculous, as a turkey and cheese sandwich or an antipasto plate are just not appropriate business class meals. Sure no ice cream sundaes (only available at dinner AA J flights and all AA F Lunch and dinner flights anyway... UA only p.s. F got sundaes in lunch and dinner flights), but the dessert trios are nice... not to mention unlimited access to Y class snacks. The F seats are also much better than AA J premium transcon seats (even the so lie flat business class seats NGBC that AA has recently introduced if you ask me), and p.s UA J seats (except the exit row, which has tremendous legroom). VX leather seats are really comfortable and perfect for sleeping.

About Y pax using F bathroom on these narrowbody fleet, I actually don't have a problem as long as F passengers are given priority, and second, no line was formed in the F cabin or galley at anytime given. That is fine with me! I am sure we have been on situation, when a cart is blocking the aisle and you really need to go bad and the F bathroom is vacant. But I agree a curtain, even the transparent one, is a good deterrent... maybe VX should give it some thoughts!

Just to clarify, the entertainment system is the same for F and Y in VX, but in F, you don't need to pay for movies and premium TV, while Y has to pay for it except the recent holidays promos that Y got free premium TV for Christmas and New Year.

Keep us posted on how VX is going to handle the case!

Carfield

I asked right above your post quoted above, so I'll ask again - what do they have to "fix" to satisfy you?

Of course I agree with you when you say you got gyped in your particular situation, but you haven't said anything to back up your claim that their F class is "not up to snuff". I think it's the best domestic F class there is. The only thing you mention that's subpar is the lack of a curtain???

I'm confused, because in your original post you claim that they already promised you a refund, and here you seem to indicate that you are not getting one.

Okay... in so far as the F product goes...

1) no they do not give priority in lav use to the F cabin. It's who ever is waiting. you either wait behind the blue divider or up in the galley (which most people did). usually that spilled by 1 person into the isle. Annoying if you are in 1st row.... especially an isle. Also it's not a curtain between you and the galley so people stand and stare (hey, they're bored who can blame them). I gotta say... it just ain't the "ambiance" of F class. I don't mean that flippantly. You definitely get the feeling you're in F on other carriers.

2) who ever is comparing to AA or UA. UA... you might have a point. but with any carrier, its hit and miss with the crew. My AA flights in f were awesome. Attentive crew, curtain, comfortable. No complaint about the seat. I'm sure some people have had great experiences on ua as well. Look, i've only had one f class experience on vx and one coach. Not a lot to go by. But this was all a test for me. I was willing to give them a go. (i also think someone above was comparing to transcon and we're talking domestic and only vx not va. i could be misunderstanding them).

I'd say yes the F seats on vx are comfortable. But i don't think they surpass ua or aa (they are just new and very clean... ua business p.s. seats on a 757 are 1" different in pitch and width... still that's business compared to f). I think vx has tried something here. but their f cabin is so small. no c cabin so its 8 f's and then everyone else). its more of an oddity. with no lounge, no luggage priority (even if it worked only 50% of the time like other carriers... i'll take that). Also at jfk they did not have separate check in that day. Security didn't allow us with vx to go on priority security line. Bummer after bummer (maybe not vx's fault that day... i don't know).

3) with FAM. I don't need to know. That's the airline's business and i don't want to know. They just need a better way of dealing with the situation. I was one of the first to check in at JFK (due to hotel check out time we were there 3 hours early... oh brother... but knowing i was in f i knew i could make up for the pain of waiting around by sleeping, hopefully, on the flight). Yes, it was a discounted F ticket (more like 400 each leg since i booked it before they were flying the route... and now i'm an Elevate "founding member"). I had asked the agent in jfk if he could move someone else. He said sorry but it was only those two seats. I said could they put me in f on another carrier he said no. I asked if it was a VIP, a human heart, a criminal being transported he said no, no, no and we both laughed (look, he was a nice guy... i have a right to ask questions). I asked if it were an air marshall. He said whatever the reason is he was not permitted to tell me. I know most of the questions were rediculous. I knew i wasn't getting an answer and didn't expect one. I expected vx to do more for me since they got me to experience their product, they just dumped us in coach and gave us vouchers.

i'm gonna leave this topic for a while with FT. i'm gonna handle it with corporate. I appreciate all the feedback and insight. you all really do know a lot and have great wisdom about flying. i just have my expectations and will deal with corporate in a reasonable manner. I'll let everyone know how it works out. Thank you all.

I'll give you a pass on this whole thread because of the FAM bumping experience... but I'll take VX over AA or UA F with the possible exception of F on a 3 class SFO/LAX-JFK. Even then, I'd still opt for VX and save $1,500+ one way. I'm willing to overlook the lack of a lounge and priority security line for the seat comfort, FA attitude, IFE and overall experience and lower fare.

And there is no way anyone can objectively say the any AA seat (especially those wonderful 18.5" width 763 F seats) is better than a VX seat.

My only complaint with VX is they only have 2 rows which sell out pretty quickly on the SFO-JFK fllights.

I'd prefer VX coach on an exit row than UA first in an A319. I'd rather spend less on the ticket and buy my own food. You don't have a stupid bulkhead and there is plenty of legroom.

I'd also prefer google maps than channel 9 and Red than getting fussed over by some butler-like purser (I'm not pompous and don't have a superiority complex). I like the VX seats better too. The staff are friendlier. Can't wait for the Internet!

Priority lines for *G are nice though. Lounge is good when flying international. But I can do without the lounge.

I only fly UA because VX doesn't service my routes. Where possible I fly VX.

Sheesh, I don't agree with anything you say above. 1" is a big difference in seat size (especially width!). Your comment about comparing business to F makes no sense at all, because they are both two class aircraft. Priority luggage, and lounges have nothing to do with class of service. Do AA or UA give you access to their lounge if you are in F on a domestic flight? I thought AS was the only airline that currently does this (and only on full-F, not upgrades). Priority tags are really a function of the frequent flyer program, not the class of service. F class is allowed to get priority handling as an extra benefit, along with elites. If you want to complain about VX's frequent flyer features, I don't think you'll get much of an argument from anyone! Once they actually have a FF program, I would guess they will do priority tags. Delta doesn't have priority tagging either, btw, for domestic flights.

look i don't wanna get into a dead end back and forth on this. like i said... we all have our opinions. i've sampled many different f classes. sorry... not happy with vx. my comparison of seats was in response to other people's postings doing a comparison (perhaps it got confusing). with lounges i do get access domestically with amex plat. AA does for instance. vx has no lounges what so ever. some people like lounges... others don't care. some people like curtains separating cabins... others aren't bothered.

I'm sorry, i'm unhappy with how i was treated by my bump with vx. We as fliers have to voice our opinions. That is how New York State established a passengers bill of rights so now in that state carriers have to provide fresh water and fresh air and so on if a carrier is on the tramac for 3 hours. VX is a new carrier. They should be open to feedback. I'm unhappy with how i was treated. i'm not retracting my claim and, in fact, will take this matter to the highest level i can. let's just agree that we won't agree on this. i'm so happy so many people are happy with vx's service. that's wonderful. Enjoy your travels. i will do the same on a different carrier.