Alaska ditching Virgin's great first class
Jun 6, 2017, 10:18 pm
#76
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Preferably waiting for takeoff
Programs: AA EXP, MVPG, DL Silver, United Silver, Accor Platinum, Marriott Ambassador
Posts: 458
Put me in standard domestic F on DL, UA and AA and I would much rather have VX F. DL in particular can be a little tight in domestic F.
The problem of course is domestic route network on DL, AA, and UA trumps anything out there.
Jun 8, 2017, 10:11 am
#77
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Dallas
Programs: AA PLT/5MM; AS MVP GLD 75K; DL DM; EK SLV; HHonors DIAM; Marriott GLD
Posts: 4,092
See the DNA and Brand Roadmap details in the Alaska Investor's Day presentation of March this year, from page 27. Premium is not the plan. Leisure Enthusiasts are the primary target.
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....ventId=5251562
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....ventId=5251562
Jun 10, 2017, 3:41 pm
#78
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,134
Regarding VX F hard product, from my experience I would much rather have lieflats on DL, UA, AA or even better Mint on B6 (all mostly trancon LAX/SFO-NY).
Put me in standard domestic F on DL, UA and AA and I would much rather have VX F. DL in particular can be a little tight in domestic F.
The problem of course is domestic route network on DL, AA, and UA trumps anything out there.
Put me in standard domestic F on DL, UA and AA and I would much rather have VX F. DL in particular can be a little tight in domestic F.
The problem of course is domestic route network on DL, AA, and UA trumps anything out there.
-AS' network just plain sucks for me. VX's sucked as well, but their F product made it worth the trip up to Washington to catch a flight. Without that, it's generally not worth the hike to DCA/BWI unless fares out of the rest of Virginia just suck (and it's almost never worth going to IAD). Also, on VX I was at least able to get status relatively easily via paid F. That's not the case with AS (and I have no great desire to spend a massive amount of time on AS to pile up the mileage). Literally the only reason I have to push for status on AS is because I've effectively been stuck with a large pile of miles there.
-B6 has the best premium product. They would be my first choice except for the fact that most flights don't even have a premium product (sorry, B6, EMS doesn't count). I've also found their FFP to be a bit arcane and really just don't like it. The fact that I can't book a RIC-BOS-wherever flight and book a Mint seat on the BOS-wherever flight also makes me want to throw things at them.
-DL probably has the best domestic lie-flat network...in particular, I've used the ATL-SEA lie-flat on a few occasions and I love it. DL might also have the best network in general for my purposes, though that's a bit variable. Also, they've got VS as a rather generous status partner (I know, the surcharges on VS suck, but I can at least milk them for status and some benefits there, and status on them is relatively cheap).
AA and UA sort-of fall by the wayside for me. They have some decent partners, but (for example) I can't even really justify taking AA to earn status on AS. Had the AS/DL partnership survived that would have been one thing, but it didn't. UA's main bright spot is SQ as a partner while AA's would be AS. However, they at least have a passable route network vis-a-vis AS.
In short, with this announcement, AS is the last airline I want to bother screwing around with. They basically take the worst parts of B6 (thin route network) and the legacies (weak F product) and merge them. Any advice on an airline I can status-match with?
Jun 10, 2017, 7:56 pm
#79
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,485
I'm really in a jam on carriers right now:
-AS' network just plain sucks for me. VX's sucked as well, but their F product made it worth the trip up to Washington to catch a flight. Without that, it's generally not worth the hike to DCA/BWI unless fares out of the rest of Virginia just suck (and it's almost never worth going to IAD). Also, on VX I was at least able to get status relatively easily via paid F. That's not the case with AS (and I have no great desire to spend a massive amount of time on AS to pile up the mileage). Literally the only reason I have to push for status on AS is because I've effectively been stuck with a large pile of miles there.
-B6 has the best premium product. They would be my first choice except for the fact that most flights don't even have a premium product (sorry, B6, EMS doesn't count). I've also found their FFP to be a bit arcane and really just don't like it. The fact that I can't book a RIC-BOS-wherever flight and book a Mint seat on the BOS-wherever flight also makes me want to throw things at them.
-DL probably has the best domestic lie-flat network...in particular, I've used the ATL-SEA lie-flat on a few occasions and I love it. DL might also have the best network in general for my purposes, though that's a bit variable. Also, they've got VS as a rather generous status partner (I know, the surcharges on VS suck, but I can at least milk them for status and some benefits there, and status on them is relatively cheap).
AA and UA sort-of fall by the wayside for me. They have some decent partners, but (for example) I can't even really justify taking AA to earn status on AS. Had the AS/DL partnership survived that would have been one thing, but it didn't. UA's main bright spot is SQ as a partner while AA's would be AS. However, they at least have a passable route network vis-a-vis AS.
In short, with this announcement, AS is the last airline I want to bother screwing around with. They basically take the worst parts of B6 (thin route network) and the legacies (weak F product) and merge them. Any advice on an airline I can status-match with?
-AS' network just plain sucks for me. VX's sucked as well, but their F product made it worth the trip up to Washington to catch a flight. Without that, it's generally not worth the hike to DCA/BWI unless fares out of the rest of Virginia just suck (and it's almost never worth going to IAD). Also, on VX I was at least able to get status relatively easily via paid F. That's not the case with AS (and I have no great desire to spend a massive amount of time on AS to pile up the mileage). Literally the only reason I have to push for status on AS is because I've effectively been stuck with a large pile of miles there.
-B6 has the best premium product. They would be my first choice except for the fact that most flights don't even have a premium product (sorry, B6, EMS doesn't count). I've also found their FFP to be a bit arcane and really just don't like it. The fact that I can't book a RIC-BOS-wherever flight and book a Mint seat on the BOS-wherever flight also makes me want to throw things at them.
-DL probably has the best domestic lie-flat network...in particular, I've used the ATL-SEA lie-flat on a few occasions and I love it. DL might also have the best network in general for my purposes, though that's a bit variable. Also, they've got VS as a rather generous status partner (I know, the surcharges on VS suck, but I can at least milk them for status and some benefits there, and status on them is relatively cheap).
AA and UA sort-of fall by the wayside for me. They have some decent partners, but (for example) I can't even really justify taking AA to earn status on AS. Had the AS/DL partnership survived that would have been one thing, but it didn't. UA's main bright spot is SQ as a partner while AA's would be AS. However, they at least have a passable route network vis-a-vis AS.
In short, with this announcement, AS is the last airline I want to bother screwing around with. They basically take the worst parts of B6 (thin route network) and the legacies (weak F product) and merge them. Any advice on an airline I can status-match with?
With mint expansion, their lie flat capacity probably will really jump in the next few years. Who knows what other routes could get added.
Jun 11, 2017, 6:26 am
#81
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,134
interesting. Outside of their D1 routes, where else do the lie flat usually appear. You mentioned SEA-ATL here and I know about SEA-JFK. Any other ones?
With mint expansion, their lie flat capacity probably will really jump in the next few years. Who knows what other routes could get added.
With mint expansion, their lie flat capacity probably will really jump in the next few years. Who knows what other routes could get added.
Boeing 767-300ER
LAX-ATL and VV - 1x daily through end of schedule
LAX-HNL and VV - 1x daily through end of schedule
ATL-SEA and VV (to facilitate SEA-PVG - 36J/172Y version ships 1607-1613)
ATL-JFK and VV - 1x daily
SEA-JFK (DL992) starting June 8, 2017 till at least July 25, 2017.
Boeing 767-400ER
DL 2144 MCO-ATL 9:50am arrives at 11:29am (From 9/22/17-12/16/17)
DL 790 ATL-MCO 6:30pm arrives at 8:04pm (From 9/22/17-12/16/17)
Boeing 777-200LR/ER
DL240 ATL-LAX 8:20am arrives 10:20am
DL633 LAX-ATL 9:00am arrives 4:20pm
Airbus A330-300
ATL-HNL and VV - 1x daily through end of schedule
JFK-LAX DL499 every day except Sat until Jun 11, 3:45pm arrives 7:00pm
Going down into 757s, you can add:
DCA-LAX
BOS-SFO
I think I've also seen a few odd ducks: I swear I once saw ATL-RDU pop up, and ATL-DTW occasionally draws a lucky straw at super-peak seasons due to needing to facilitate moves. Last year I regularly saw ATL-SLC, but that seems to be missing now. Still, the presence of a decent number of routes out of ATL (I count at least six routes with a daily option, possibly a few more on occasion) with this is more (and more convenient) than most other airlines that I know of.
Jun 11, 2017, 7:10 am
#82
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2001
Programs: DL 1 million, AA 1 mil, HH lapsed Diamond, Marriott Plat
Posts: 28,190
Delta SkyMiles awards have no fuel/international origin surcharge on USA-LON-USA operated by VS. The assertion was refuted by a Delta employee in the thread. You can check for yourself.
Jun 11, 2017, 3:28 pm
#85
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,134
I hate to say it, but considering how the merger is going, "Where should I go as the airline merger rips away what brought me here?" seems to be a valid conversation point. Moreover, it's not going to land squarely in the forum for DL (or B6, AA, or UA) and I know I'm not the only probable refugee from VX from this mess.
Jun 11, 2017, 5:13 pm
#86
Moderator: Alaska Mileage Plan
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 12,319
A new thread, narrowly discussing Elevate members moving to other programs, would be fine. Detailed discussions of other programs or airlines should be posted in the respective forum.
dayone AS/VX Moderator
Jun 12, 2017, 9:59 pm
#87
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Preferably waiting for takeoff
Programs: AA EXP, MVPG, DL Silver, United Silver, Accor Platinum, Marriott Ambassador
Posts: 458
I'm really in a jam on carriers right now:
-AS' network just plain sucks for me. VX's sucked as well, but their F product made it worth the trip up to Washington to catch a flight. Without that, it's generally not worth the hike to DCA/BWI unless fares out of the rest of Virginia just suck (and it's almost never worth going to IAD). Also, on VX I was at least able to get status relatively easily via paid F. That's not the case with AS (and I have no great desire to spend a massive amount of time on AS to pile up the mileage). Literally the only reason I have to push for status on AS is because I've effectively been stuck with a large pile of miles there.
-AS' network just plain sucks for me. VX's sucked as well, but their F product made it worth the trip up to Washington to catch a flight. Without that, it's generally not worth the hike to DCA/BWI unless fares out of the rest of Virginia just suck (and it's almost never worth going to IAD). Also, on VX I was at least able to get status relatively easily via paid F. That's not the case with AS (and I have no great desire to spend a massive amount of time on AS to pile up the mileage). Literally the only reason I have to push for status on AS is because I've effectively been stuck with a large pile of miles there.
Mileage Plan in 2018 will be the same plan for VX, so status will be mileage based. I agree that status on VX is easier with F class purchases, and I actually appreciate that about Elevate.
I don't think AS (my speculation) will convert any trancon VX craft during 2018, and won't really get going until 2019. Again a guess. As for your stash of VX Elevate points converted into AS Mileage Plan miles, in reality you'll probably have more options for redemption than with VX. There's not much downside to that.
Starting in 2019 we'll really be seeing the "old" VX Airbus layout, including it's current F, starting to disappear and at that time you could "jump ship". Who knows, there may be different options by then.
Just 2 cents worth.
Jul 6, 2017, 7:52 pm
#88
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Seattle
Programs: AS
Posts: 2,293
Just flew VX in F again yesterday. Really trying to enjoy each trip and realize that soon it will change. Really appreciate the pillows and duvet.
Love the free movies , even on a 2.5 hour flight. AS does not offer the same.
We are very much aware how this will be the last of the short haul "luxury" travel experiences for us.
Love the free movies , even on a 2.5 hour flight. AS does not offer the same.
We are very much aware how this will be the last of the short haul "luxury" travel experiences for us.
Jul 9, 2017, 6:25 am
#89
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 424
I'll pre-face this by saying that I am not a frequent flyer. I fly maybe 2-3 times a year for leisure...
Next Monday will be my final flight with Virgin America ever. My wife and I are using all of our VX points for a SEA->LAX trip and back in First Class. I'm sad about it because I love VX, like we all do, for domestic FC and the mood and attitude of a company trying to upend the industry to provide better domestic service and quality.
I also use AS exclusively for flights that don't have a VX option, because I live in Orlando and go to and from Seattle all of the time (Delta also have a non-stop to and from Orlando, but they are often red-eyes and I dislike Delta). We don't fly FC with them ever Alaska anymore because we just can't afford it and don't have the milage or status, but when we did it was just "meh" compared to VX. The last time we fly FC with Alaska was probably 5 years ago now. Alaska is not a bad airline, they are just normal like the rest of them, and that sucks.
I will really miss the Virgin experience and will savor every minute of our flights in FC this coming week.
Next Monday will be my final flight with Virgin America ever. My wife and I are using all of our VX points for a SEA->LAX trip and back in First Class. I'm sad about it because I love VX, like we all do, for domestic FC and the mood and attitude of a company trying to upend the industry to provide better domestic service and quality.
I also use AS exclusively for flights that don't have a VX option, because I live in Orlando and go to and from Seattle all of the time (Delta also have a non-stop to and from Orlando, but they are often red-eyes and I dislike Delta). We don't fly FC with them ever Alaska anymore because we just can't afford it and don't have the milage or status, but when we did it was just "meh" compared to VX. The last time we fly FC with Alaska was probably 5 years ago now. Alaska is not a bad airline, they are just normal like the rest of them, and that sucks.
I will really miss the Virgin experience and will savor every minute of our flights in FC this coming week.
Jul 9, 2017, 6:56 am
#90
Moderator: Alaska Mileage Plan
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 12,319
Four MCO-SEA roundtrips/year would earn MVP.