The US/DL LGA slot swap [Master Thread]
May 23, 2011, 3:37 pm
#136
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Washington DC
Programs: AA Plat
Posts: 1,304
Appears that divestiture is still a sticking point. I'm guessing that US & DL are arguing hard that they shouldn't have to divest since the proverbial camel's nose is already under the tent with WN getting into both LGA & DCA.
May 23, 2011, 4:03 pm
#137
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: New York, N.Y.
Posts: 309
For context, the DOT in February 2010 required that Delta give up 20 LaGuardia slot pairs for approval, and Delta countered in March 2010 with an offer to sell 15 (5 each to Jetblue, Spirit, and Airtran). Now Delta is willing to give up 16 LaGuardia slot pairs. At National, the DOT wanted US Airways to give up 14 slot pairs, and US Airways countered with 5 (all to Jetblue). Now US Airways is offering 8.
All in all, I still see this transaction as being far less favorable to US Airways than to Delta. Unless I'm misreading something, US Airways gets $66 million, access to Sao Paulo, and just 34 net new slot pairs at National, where it is already the dominant carrier. Delta on the other hand, gets 109 net new flights at LaGuardia, where it can consolidate its leadership position in a highly fragmented market.
Unless US Airways's ongoing losses at LaGuardia are so staggering that it needs to cut them off at almost any cost, I'm surprised that they're taking this deal. I would have expected the LaGuardia slots to be something that Delta, Jetblue, Southwest, and American to all be interested in bidding for.
(Of course, perhaps this was the result of a bidding war, and the value of LaGuardia slots just isn't what I expected.)
May 23, 2011, 4:06 pm
#138
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: PIT
Programs: AA PlatPro, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 639
Here is an update:
Source: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Delta-....html?x=0&.v=1
Under the agreement, Delta would acquire 132 slot pairs at LaGuardia from US Airways and US Airways would acquire from Delta 42 slot pairs at Reagan National and the rights to operate additional daily service to Sao Paulo, Brazil in 2015, and Delta would pay US Airways $66.5 million in cash. In addition, the transaction could result in the divestiture of up to 16 slot pairs at LaGuardia and eight slot pairs at Reagan National to airlines with limited or no service at those airports. The completion of the transaction is subject to certain closing conditions, including government and regulatory approvals. A slot pair is the authority to operate one takeoff and one landing.
May 23, 2011, 4:34 pm
#139
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: CAE,AGS
Programs: AAExP, Hyatt Globalist, HHonors Gold, IHG Spire, Marriott Plat
Posts: 3,124
I like the sound of 15 new destinations from DCA, and a new club at LGA (which is long overdue). Just a shame to see it come at the expense of a lot of those northeast regional trips that go in and out of LGA.
If they can pair the 15 new routes requirement with whatever perimeter exemption is in the works, that would be a slam-dunk.
Sounds like there may be a "new routes" promo from DCA in our future!!
If they can pair the 15 new routes requirement with whatever perimeter exemption is in the works, that would be a slam-dunk.
Sounds like there may be a "new routes" promo from DCA in our future!!
May 24, 2011, 12:01 pm
#140
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: rdu and nyc
Programs: US silver, DL exGM, UA ex1K (now GM), B6, WN, AA
Posts: 125
They're keeping the current service to PHL????
The story suggests that they are keeping the current service to PHL?
REALLY???
Propjets, scheduled frequently, almost always operating behind schedule
with alterations and cancellations, providing "convenient" connections to mainline service at PHL via a terminal in the middle of nowhere????
Surely they could develop a "real" shuttle service in desirable planes serving the main terminal at PHL???? It would take fewer slots and serve more people better!
REALLY???
Propjets, scheduled frequently, almost always operating behind schedule
with alterations and cancellations, providing "convenient" connections to mainline service at PHL via a terminal in the middle of nowhere????
Surely they could develop a "real" shuttle service in desirable planes serving the main terminal at PHL???? It would take fewer slots and serve more people better!
May 24, 2011, 2:52 pm
#141
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: Amtrak S+, Kimpton IC
Posts: 298
Bye Bye MDT-LGA
There goes my 3x MDT to LGA
Even if there was no gate swap, I'm stunned they had brought back the service a few months back. I flew the route yesterday... 12 people onboard... and that is with $100 each way T fares up to 7 days prior...
Even if there was no gate swap, I'm stunned they had brought back the service a few months back. I flew the route yesterday... 12 people onboard... and that is with $100 each way T fares up to 7 days prior...
May 24, 2011, 11:08 pm
#142
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: PHL
Programs: AA EXP, Marriott Lifetime Plat, SPG Plat, AMEX Plat, Hertz PC, Travels too Much Platinum
Posts: 3,290
The story suggests that they are keeping the current service to PHL?
REALLY???
Propjets, scheduled frequently, almost always operating behind schedule
with alterations and cancellations, providing "convenient" connections to mainline service at PHL via a terminal in the middle of nowhere????
Surely they could develop a "real" shuttle service in desirable planes serving the main terminal at PHL???? It would take fewer slots and serve more people better!
REALLY???
Propjets, scheduled frequently, almost always operating behind schedule
with alterations and cancellations, providing "convenient" connections to mainline service at PHL via a terminal in the middle of nowhere????
Surely they could develop a "real" shuttle service in desirable planes serving the main terminal at PHL???? It would take fewer slots and serve more people better!
May 26, 2011, 11:11 am
#143
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Programs: USAirways CP
Posts: 712
US Airways - Delta Slot Swapping
Cranky had an update on what will most likely happen.
http://crankyflier.com/2011/05/26/de...e-itll-happen/
Some high/low lights.
http://crankyflier.com/2011/05/26/de...e-itll-happen/
Some high/low lights.
- US Airways will give up 18 of the 20 gates in its terminal at LaGuardia
- Delta will take over the current US Airways Club at LaGuardia in Terminal C and turn it into a Sky Club to complement the existing club in Terminal D. US Airways will build a new, smaller lounge for its operation.
- Delta will give 42 slot pairs (1 slot pair = 1 departure + 1 arrival) to US Airways at National and US Airways will begin service to at least 15 new destinations.
- To make everything work out after these changes, Delta will drop $66.5 million into a US Airways bank account.
- On top of all this, US Airways will get a slot to fly to Sao Paulo in 2015,
May 26, 2011, 1:54 pm
#144
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: DCA/IAD
Programs: AA EXP; 1W Emerald; HHonors Diamond; Marriott Gold; UA dirt
Posts: 7,819
Interesting article. I think there would have to be a lot of gate movement at DCA. I am not sure how it works. The linchpin is AA. They have at least 4 gates in the middle pier at DCA and have spent some $$$ on a remodeled AAdmirals club.
I guess the way it would "ideally" break is that US continues all of the north pier, and takes over all of the middle PIER - 3 gates being used by UA/CO and the rest being US gates.
AA moves to the south Pier taking 1/2 of the Delta gates and taking the CO Presidents Club. One other carrier could move to the south Pier from Terminal A. Maybe Jetblue?
I guess the way it would "ideally" break is that US continues all of the north pier, and takes over all of the middle PIER - 3 gates being used by UA/CO and the rest being US gates.
AA moves to the south Pier taking 1/2 of the Delta gates and taking the CO Presidents Club. One other carrier could move to the south Pier from Terminal A. Maybe Jetblue?
May 26, 2011, 2:08 pm
#145
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,452
I think US is better off this time around and doesn't have to give up any slots LGA or DCA!
-Kinglobjaw
-Kinglobjaw
May 26, 2011, 2:17 pm
#146
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: US-CP, UA, Marriott Rewards, HHonors, Avis,
Posts: 4,549
I think the plan at one time was for AC to move back from A to B, where they used to be, to allow easier *A connections at DCA. I've definitely had to make more challenging connections, but the C-to-A to go US-AC is not fun.
On a fun note: shall we speculate on the 15 new routes? I'm guessing at least some of them will be into cities where currently there is service from LGA but not from DCA. Makes sense to try to keep whatever customers you already have.
My picks:
SFO, assuming there is a perimeter exemption granted. UA can only fight so hard on this, as they've got 9 daily nonstops from IAD; there is only so much "damage" a competitor can do, when you have 9 times the commodity to sell, but along the same lines, UA as the dominant on IAD-SFO will have a harder time adding DCA-SFO than someone who does not already have a daily service to SFO from the area. This is assuming also that US has a plane that can cover that range in the summer with the shorter runways at DCA
AUS: it's growing again, and nobody has a daily nonstop from DCA; best you can do is twice daily from IAD on UA, which is usually one of the most expensive flights around
Some random, unexpected city in Central America, as there is a lot of growth happening right now (I think US is rather wise to get those rights for twice daily to Sao Paolo)
Finally, I think we will see a second daily nonstop to LAS added, but as part of the perimeter exemptions and not part of the slot swap (because it's not a new location). I think US purposefully keeps a smaller plane on this route-- it's been a 319 for a while-- to keep the percentage sold high, to help justify the need for an additional exemption. I miss the days when that used to be one of the bigger birds
On a fun note: shall we speculate on the 15 new routes? I'm guessing at least some of them will be into cities where currently there is service from LGA but not from DCA. Makes sense to try to keep whatever customers you already have.
My picks:
SFO, assuming there is a perimeter exemption granted. UA can only fight so hard on this, as they've got 9 daily nonstops from IAD; there is only so much "damage" a competitor can do, when you have 9 times the commodity to sell, but along the same lines, UA as the dominant on IAD-SFO will have a harder time adding DCA-SFO than someone who does not already have a daily service to SFO from the area. This is assuming also that US has a plane that can cover that range in the summer with the shorter runways at DCA
AUS: it's growing again, and nobody has a daily nonstop from DCA; best you can do is twice daily from IAD on UA, which is usually one of the most expensive flights around
Some random, unexpected city in Central America, as there is a lot of growth happening right now (I think US is rather wise to get those rights for twice daily to Sao Paolo)
Finally, I think we will see a second daily nonstop to LAS added, but as part of the perimeter exemptions and not part of the slot swap (because it's not a new location). I think US purposefully keeps a smaller plane on this route-- it's been a 319 for a while-- to keep the percentage sold high, to help justify the need for an additional exemption. I miss the days when that used to be one of the bigger birds
May 26, 2011, 5:10 pm
#147
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: DCA/IAD
Programs: AA EXP; 1W Emerald; HHonors Diamond; Marriott Gold; UA dirt
Posts: 7,819
I think the plan at one time was for AC to move back from A to B, where they used to be, to allow easier *A connections at DCA. I've definitely had to make more challenging connections, but the C-to-A to go US-AC is not fun.
On a fun note: shall we speculate on the 15 new routes? I'm guessing at least some of them will be into cities where currently there is service from LGA but not from DCA. Makes sense to try to keep whatever customers you already have.
My picks:
SFO, assuming there is a perimeter exemption granted. UA can only fight so hard on this, as they've got 9 daily nonstops from IAD; there is only so much "damage" a competitor can do, when you have 9 times the commodity to sell, but along the same lines, UA as the dominant on IAD-SFO will have a harder time adding DCA-SFO than someone who does not already have a daily service to SFO from the area. This is assuming also that US has a plane that can cover that range in the summer with the shorter runways at DCA
On a fun note: shall we speculate on the 15 new routes? I'm guessing at least some of them will be into cities where currently there is service from LGA but not from DCA. Makes sense to try to keep whatever customers you already have.
My picks:
SFO, assuming there is a perimeter exemption granted. UA can only fight so hard on this, as they've got 9 daily nonstops from IAD; there is only so much "damage" a competitor can do, when you have 9 times the commodity to sell, but along the same lines, UA as the dominant on IAD-SFO will have a harder time adding DCA-SFO than someone who does not already have a daily service to SFO from the area. This is assuming also that US has a plane that can cover that range in the summer with the shorter runways at DCA
http://www.flickr.com/photos/crankyflier/3816367368/
I agree with some of them. I actually see somewhere like STL being added.
Nope. No CBP clearance facilities at DCA for commercial flights.
May 26, 2011, 5:34 pm
#148
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: US-CP, UA, Marriott Rewards, HHonors, Avis,
Posts: 4,549
Forgot about the customs/immigration so yep, you're right, that nixes latin america
May 26, 2011, 6:47 pm
#149
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The views I express here are not necessarily supported by any airline or codeshare partners, nor do I represent their views and/or opinions. They are my own OPINIONS dont like them dont read them.....
Posts: 1,462
dcpatti we dont go to MEM its a thru flight via CLT. BHM used to be from DCA but stopped in favor of more Florida routes.
May 26, 2011, 7:14 pm
#150
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: US-CP, UA, Marriott Rewards, HHonors, Avis,
Posts: 4,549
Didn't US used to go to MEM at least? Please tell me I'm not having early-onset Alzheimer's. I swear I've flown US to visit a customer in MEM on a RJ nonstop from DC, and I've only had this job for 5 years so it can't have been before that.