mikew99

This is exactly my opinion: CO is a great airline that would be brought down by a merger with UA. I'm elite on both, and while UA meets my needs most of the time, it's great to have CO as a backup. The 50% EQM most certainly does suck, and CO miles are hard to use, but the PC is great (I have a multiple-year membership that I can use at SFO even when flying UA) and as you've noted, the service on CO is significantly better.

I'd prefer that UA merge with DL instead. I'm not a fan of DL's service, planes, or FF program, so IMHO nothing would be "lost" by such a merger.

ExCrew

Agreed with most, but I don't think they would lose e plus. If differentiates our product greatly. And PLEASE bring back food to the back of the bus. Hot food. Even if I have to pay for it, I will buy a hot dinner or lunch on board!

BostonHockeyGuy

I am surprised by people willing to sacrifice comfort in the air for 6 hour transcon flights versus half hour and a free drink in an overcrowded PC. In EWR, it is hard to find a seat in there late afternoons.

CO has some great things going for it, but if they take the good things away from both airlines which is easily just as possible as keeping the good things of both, that is going to be one unpleasant airline. How many of you really think there will be many 'cheerful' employees left after a painful merger? And that is all that exists in airlines mergers is painful ones. America West and US Air are still upside down from their merger.

The Governor and some congressmen from Minnesota are starting to chatter about opposition to airline consolidation. They are talking about concessions that would be lost at MSP and as the congressman said "we didn't deregulate in 1978 to have consolidation but rather more competition in the industry." I wonder if airlines have used up any sympathy they had with congress and the regulators. This is especially true when the executives are saying plainly that consolidation is the only way to cut capacity and keep prices high. That is not a great argument in favor! Especially when the airlines are perfectly capable of cutting capacity on their own without consolidation but just won't do it. Cutting capacity doesn't seem to hold a lot of water in light of the record load factors of 2007.

Losing E+ is too high a price to pay. When I get mad at United and fly other airlines, I always remember why about 5 minutes after I board and get my knees bruised by someone reclining the seat into my kneecaps. A hot meal....it is still airline food.

Mergers aren't good for any customers. I hear you all saying you would leave United or spread it around, but what are the alternatives? Jet Blue is the only other one with extra leg room. I am not too worried about MP. There might be some changes but overall, it is a highly rated program that CO would have to evaluate carefully before scrapping and there is no way they would chuck elites under the bus who keep the airline afloat.

prestonh

I flew it in Dec on a irrops reroute in F from SEA-MCO through Houston. I wasn't overwhelmed by CO. Same proportion of grumpy FA's. Same proportion of underperforming FA's. Same treatment by GA's and check-in. Food was worse on CO. Seats were not as good on CO. Drink service was lacking. No channel 9. no E+. I did not like the Houston airport, several steps below ORD. Baggage delivery was better.

I think transcon F is a pretty good try out. I found it lacking compared to UA.

ryan182

My thoughts is its probably getting more unlikely. UA (well Tilton mostly) has been beating the consolidation drum for awhile now, but as the NW/DL combo looks more promising ( http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/cb732600-d...nclick_check=1 ) I'd bet others will wait and see if that provides the needed consolidation to right the market and move fares up.

The new premium cabins are somewhat if an interesting point, if one was planning a merger with a all 2-cabin carrier it would seem odd to drop hundreds of millions on that en devour, though one can point out they aren't exactly proceeding at breakneck speed on the refurbishment they certainly have lots of $ spent in development and design and probably contracts w/ the manufactures already inked.

felicidad76

ORD airport defines unattractiveness. of UA hubs, only DEN and International part of SFO are likable. Actually, DEN is a great looking airport.
As far as CO hubs, I am not sure as I have not experienced them.
One more thing, why everyone assumes E+ will be eliminated. I think they will combine best from two, in order to make new company that will attract even more fliers.

prestonh

So then why do you compare ORD to IAH as I did? Can't understand your post as I compared ORD to IAH and I like ORD better.

BostonHockeyGuy

There was an article in the WSJ today that titled "Airline Talks May Lead to a Double Wedding". It appears DL/NW are further along, but that UA and CO are also in serious talks.

I have trashed United for not being competitive internationally with a lack of lay flat seats in business and even the first ones not being all that great. It would be a huge mistake to cede this further to the international carriers that have left the US carriers in the dark ages of premium cabin comfort and amenities. Continental's Bus class works with Latin America because that is about the best thing going down there, but their biz class is not nearly the best thing going across the Atlantic or Pacific.

With regulators already allowing the marriage of domestic carriers in Skyteam and *A, I really wonder how they can make the argument that such alliances don't achieve the needed consolidation. Tilton probably just wants it for his own personal gain, not the betterment of UA or the industry. I am highly skeptical of his comments having even a trace of altruism.

CO's domestic fleet is dominated by smaller aircraft such as the 737. I don't recall any domestic CO flights on a 767 or 777.

My personal wish is that instead of airlines merging they would first put the squeeze on the express carriers that are clogging up the airspace and devoid of customer service. My belief is that mergers are on the way in the next nine months (before Hillary is President) and the only way that train will be slowed down or stopped is with a lot of letter writing to the regulators and congress by passengers like us. I would also say that if DL/NW are first in line that may be the only one the regulators allow. I personally won't mourn either of them as DL is the worst airline IMHO and I only fly them when I am trying to get somewhere in the Southeast or to certain European cities and NW never seems to have decent schedules for any cities I travel to and haven't since I moved away from Seattle.

DCA IAD

Regardless of the alleged "synergies" these mergers will result in some of the largest bankruptices in history.

ryan182

Acutally I don't think anyone of them have enough debt left (if they liquidated) after their previous BKs to break into the MCI/Enron club. Also it should reduce supply and raise prices, I don't see how the mergers would resulting in more BK.

fastair

Those objections were all stated a few weeks ago.

As for why they de-regulated...sure it increased competition as well as opened up the industry to market forces. Well, by the same logic, mergers are part of the market forces. If congress deregulated, then let market forces prevail, and allow the mergers to happen and airlines to sink or swim. They want their cake and they want to eat it too. Much competition from deregulation, but also hub and spoke systems for coverage to all the tiny cities that a LCC will never touch.

I tell you this, if the congressman from MN had to choose between losing 10's of thousands of jobs in his state and fewer non-stop flights/service, or higher fares but better route structure in MSP, becuase NW could CHap 7, do you think he would change his song?

De-regulation has its consumer benefits, but true de-regulation allows free market successed and failures including Chap 7 and mergers.

Similarly RLA was in place to protect the delivery of goods and service necessary to the Fed (i.e. mail) and and the economy. It now stands as a de-railing point to the free market forces that would allow strikes and evolution of the industry. How can they say "we ALLOWED" economic forces to play in the 1970's? It isn't a RIGHT of American's to have air travel. There is no national Monopoly like ATT back in the 1980's in the aviation sector (at least in the US.) Margins of even the most profitable air carriers are NOTHING like margins of most sectors. It is a very capital intesive industry that has produced a historical negative return to those willing to provide the capital. Why should "The Man" expect to be able to force low fares, great networks, and losses for the investors year after year? Either re-regulate like a utility, or stay out out of the business (beyond regualting anti-trust concerns) then, maybe we could have a profitable national network with good service and premium products (and high fares) like some of the other countries have had.

felicidad76

I apologize. The main thing I wanted to say, is that ORD is not as nice as DEN for example.

prestonh

welcome to fT!

Fair enough. IMHO IAH is several steps below ORD. ORD is probably third worse to IAD for UA hubs. SFO>DEN>ORD>LAX>IAD, based on condition/amenities ONLY.

Renard

I assume you don't mean CO coach....it is a big come down from E+. CO's coach seats are like wood planks with cloth wrapped around it....and you'll have to beg to get a full can of coke.


Most Y meals on CO are not hot unless it is pretty long...maybe transcon or close. I don't think there are too many flights on CO out of IAH that have a hot meal...it's mostly a little turkey sandwich on a silver dollar sized roll, a fun-sized bag of carrots and a fun-sized m&ms. Nothing to write home about. Even iah-hnl the 'meal in Y' is something like a warmed hamburger served in a plastic sac...yummm-Not!

Co's management team is very competent and open to listening to customers as evidenced by the three CO DOs. Given what I hear about UA's management, COs would be a definite improvement.

However, they are beancounters (I think that I heard that Larry Kellner was an accountant?) who love to shove as many humans as possible into Y and hate anything resembling an upgrade in the premium cabins when traveling overseas. (And they love regional jets and 757 that fly across the Atlantic )

felicidad76

I have this concern: Why it is assumed that E+ is going away is UA merges with CO?
Especially, if UA is a buyer. Any insiders?