I battle the Dulles RCC matron- you know who won! [Merged Threads]
Jul 9, 2007, 9:10 pm
#271
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: DEN
Programs: UA Gold 1MM, Hyatt Plat, SPG Plat
Posts: 332
Another Lucky backer here.
I was at IAD last month headed to LHR and was fully expecting a run-in with the RCC Matron. Sure enough, I hear her handing out ONE chit to the all the pax in line ahead of me. As I came up to the desk she asked if I wanted "a drink at the bar" and tried to get me a single chit but somehow two got stuck together...so she generously gave me both of them
I certainly would have asked for the two chits I was entitled to if she tried to get away with the one chit.
A week later a different RCC matron gave me two chits without asking.
I think like most people here, it's the inconsistency and random rule-making that is most frustrating. Lucky shouldn't be criticized for knowing what benefits and perqs he is entitled to based on his status with UA and his itinerary that day.
I was at IAD last month headed to LHR and was fully expecting a run-in with the RCC Matron. Sure enough, I hear her handing out ONE chit to the all the pax in line ahead of me. As I came up to the desk she asked if I wanted "a drink at the bar" and tried to get me a single chit but somehow two got stuck together...so she generously gave me both of them
I certainly would have asked for the two chits I was entitled to if she tried to get away with the one chit.A week later a different RCC matron gave me two chits without asking.
I think like most people here, it's the inconsistency and random rule-making that is most frustrating. Lucky shouldn't be criticized for knowing what benefits and perqs he is entitled to based on his status with UA and his itinerary that day.
Jul 9, 2007, 9:19 pm
#272
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Programs: AA Exec PLT; Marriott PLAT
Posts: 1,120
Whew, just read the thread. I say good job Lucky. Poor training or not, this person should be severely reprimanded for even thinking of calling security.
That you are not old enough to legally order a drink in most states really is immaterial here. It's the level of "customer service" that was given, or not given in this case.
That you are not old enough to legally order a drink in most states really is immaterial here. It's the level of "customer service" that was given, or not given in this case.
Jul 9, 2007, 9:32 pm
#273
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Jul 9, 2007, 9:32 pm
#274
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: YVR
Programs: UA-1K (3MM); AA-Gold (1MM); Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 1,145
I've gone through IAD in the past and have run into trouble in getting both my chits for my wife and I. I have to ask for my benefits. I did not have a copy of the rules with me but when I told the matron which rules to access she said that she has no access to the rules. Hmmm...the RCC matron does not have access to the rules of who should be let into the RCC.
This is the person who I had asked to change seats when a better seat became availalbe. How can she not have access to the rules yet she has the eability to access my PNR and issue tickets?
I now keep two copies with me just in case the matron takes it from me and then says "what rules?"
I did get an email from E.A.B, Supervisor RCC at IAD earlier this year after reading gre's post late last year. In her response to me she stated (I'm quoting now) "I have personally made sure each agent is aware of the drink chit policy".
Clearly this is not the case otherwise, why are so many people in IAD still facing a problem in getting their drink chits?
I have never had a problem in getting my two drink chits from the RCC agents in ORD, LAX, SFO or SEA. Only in IAD. Now that I live in YVR I have not flown through IAD for 2 years.
The activities in the RCC related to the drink chits is clearly a problem of mangement in IAD not wanting to honour the benefits we have earned and are entitled to.
Lucky I applaud your efforts.
Cheers
This is the person who I had asked to change seats when a better seat became availalbe. How can she not have access to the rules yet she has the eability to access my PNR and issue tickets?
I now keep two copies with me just in case the matron takes it from me and then says "what rules?"
I did get an email from E.A.B, Supervisor RCC at IAD earlier this year after reading gre's post late last year. In her response to me she stated (I'm quoting now) "I have personally made sure each agent is aware of the drink chit policy".
Clearly this is not the case otherwise, why are so many people in IAD still facing a problem in getting their drink chits?
I have never had a problem in getting my two drink chits from the RCC agents in ORD, LAX, SFO or SEA. Only in IAD. Now that I live in YVR I have not flown through IAD for 2 years.
The activities in the RCC related to the drink chits is clearly a problem of mangement in IAD not wanting to honour the benefits we have earned and are entitled to.
Lucky I applaud your efforts.
Cheers
Jul 9, 2007, 10:02 pm
#275
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Join Date: Sep 2000
Programs: UA Million Miler (lite). NY Metro area.
Posts: 15,086
Does anyone think it's sport that the RCC entry people try and play a game with UA passengers regarding drink certs? Maybe they're rated on how many certs are handed out daily. That's a lot of free booze; and I bet it cost UA a bundle.
Disclaimer. I've met lucky and he carries himself better than people 2 or 3'xs his age. I'm embarrassed that the entry person (I hate the term dragon), treated lucky so poorly; in light of the fact that his dad was standing there right next to him.
Jul 9, 2007, 10:20 pm
#276
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Denver, CO USA
Programs: UA-Gold, 1MM, Marriott Gold, Global Entry
Posts: 1,086
Lucky you wrote:
[[I think I know what's best for United. Maybe it's completely wrong. Maybe terrible service, calling security on a customer, eliminating all services, etc., are what's best for United, but I sure don't think so. Again, I don't know why you call it an ambush. It wasn't an ambush.]]
It didn't ambush the RCC Woman, you did. You thought out the whole scene before you entered the RCC or you would not have been prepared....with rules and knowledge of history of complaints on the forum and your own experience. You chose to confront. Ready for bear...You appear to have enjoyed it?
As to the RCC woman calling security....Do you really think she doesn't know she must explain her actions to her superiors? Do you really think she would call security without cause? Somehow, if your story is true, she perceived a threat from you. You may deny it or disagree, but according to you it happened and to you.
Wonder if your dad was winking at her? [s]
When you honor people you give them freedom of choice.... to listen or not. Demanding they listen or read your paper rules is not honoring, and can be perceived as a threat; for them, loss of freedom. So a normal reaction is to become secure again in ones freedom...thus the call for security....Hope this gives some understanding....
When you say you know what is best for United...Do you think this might be heard as a bit arrogant? You may have suggestions, due to your vast flying experience with United, but they can choose to hear them or not.
Glad you got some sleep. Were your dreams in Mandarin, English, Spanish or another language?
P.S. No Rosa Parks...similar to Michael Moore, he has made a living out of ambushing.
[[I think I know what's best for United. Maybe it's completely wrong. Maybe terrible service, calling security on a customer, eliminating all services, etc., are what's best for United, but I sure don't think so. Again, I don't know why you call it an ambush. It wasn't an ambush.]]
It didn't ambush the RCC Woman, you did. You thought out the whole scene before you entered the RCC or you would not have been prepared....with rules and knowledge of history of complaints on the forum and your own experience. You chose to confront. Ready for bear...You appear to have enjoyed it?
As to the RCC woman calling security....Do you really think she doesn't know she must explain her actions to her superiors? Do you really think she would call security without cause? Somehow, if your story is true, she perceived a threat from you. You may deny it or disagree, but according to you it happened and to you.
Wonder if your dad was winking at her? [s]
When you honor people you give them freedom of choice.... to listen or not. Demanding they listen or read your paper rules is not honoring, and can be perceived as a threat; for them, loss of freedom. So a normal reaction is to become secure again in ones freedom...thus the call for security....Hope this gives some understanding....
When you say you know what is best for United...Do you think this might be heard as a bit arrogant? You may have suggestions, due to your vast flying experience with United, but they can choose to hear them or not.
Glad you got some sleep. Were your dreams in Mandarin, English, Spanish or another language?
P.S. No Rosa Parks...similar to Michael Moore, he has made a living out of ambushing.
Jul 9, 2007, 10:23 pm
#277
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Evanston, IL
Posts: 373
It appears you prepared to ambush the RCC woman, not just get your drink chits. Now you boast of your success and others may do the same. This is intimidation. The reaction you received from the RCC woman to call security is because she felt threatened. The arrogance you received from her you dished out in spades. Paying for RCC access with a F-C ticket or buying a yearly membership just gets you in the door. You are not entitled to anything. If you don't like the women in the RCC or how United operates, why not take your business elsewhere or buy a controlling interest in UAL so you can say who get fired.
Clarification:
I am referring to "entitled" as an attitude, not to the fact that one may have qualified for two or more drink chits to be Given & Received. That one qualifies for them, does not mean they will be given graciously or received graciously. I suspect this is determined by both the giver & receiver.
Clarification:
I am referring to "entitled" as an attitude, not to the fact that one may have qualified for two or more drink chits to be Given & Received. That one qualifies for them, does not mean they will be given graciously or received graciously. I suspect this is determined by both the giver & receiver.
Are you kidding me with this response? He is entitled and they should be handed over graciously - that's her job. I'm absolutely frustrated with people excusing the inconsistent service and often rude employees at UA these days.
I had to come back and add this lest something think I don't know how hard it is being in her job: Long before I landed my globe trotting, soul sucking job, I worked in customer service (thankfully not at an airline) for some time. I had to put up with alot of crap from rude customers standing right in front of me but I and the others around me never let that get in the way of good customer service. I came close once but stopped myself (I still get angry about this incident to this day). No matter how irritating or arrogant a customer was, unless they made a personal attack [in which case we stepped back and called a manager], I served them as best I could even if inside I was fuming.
Last edited by NWILGuy; Jul 9, 2007 at 11:02 pm
Jul 9, 2007, 10:41 pm
#278
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Evanston, IL
Posts: 373
[QUOTE=holtju2;8026017]Although I don't agree with the IAD RCC personnel's behavior, we are on a thin ice on this. Do we want the rules being enforced ala Lufthansa where they are enforced to the last letter.
Honestly, I used to be irritated by LH's mindnumbing conformity to the rules. But my recent UA experiences have actually turned me into a Lufthansa fan. I prefer their customer service to UA's. It is somewhat direct perhaps but it is generally consistent. United is so all over the place it is crazy. FAs go from amazing to absolutely awful. Gate agents, same thing. RCC staff, same thing. But over at British Airways - I don't think their service is truly that amazing but it is consistent. UA needs to hold its employees to a standard. We can all argue we should take our money elsewhere and perhaps we should. But UA should start telling employees that don't meet standards that they are welcome to go elsewhere as well.
Honestly, I used to be irritated by LH's mindnumbing conformity to the rules. But my recent UA experiences have actually turned me into a Lufthansa fan. I prefer their customer service to UA's. It is somewhat direct perhaps but it is generally consistent. United is so all over the place it is crazy. FAs go from amazing to absolutely awful. Gate agents, same thing. RCC staff, same thing. But over at British Airways - I don't think their service is truly that amazing but it is consistent. UA needs to hold its employees to a standard. We can all argue we should take our money elsewhere and perhaps we should. But UA should start telling employees that don't meet standards that they are welcome to go elsewhere as well.
Last edited by NWILGuy; Jul 9, 2007 at 10:56 pm
Jul 9, 2007, 10:46 pm
#279
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Programs: AA Exec PLT; Marriott PLAT
Posts: 1,120
can we leave the aristotle out of this?
When you honor people you give them freedom of choice.... to listen or not. Demanding they listen or read your paper rules is not honoring, and can be perceived as a threat; for them, loss of freedom. So a normal reaction is to become secure again in ones freedom...thus the call for security....Hope this gives some understanding....
Jul 9, 2007, 10:47 pm
#280
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: What I write is my opinion alone..don't read into it anything not written.
Posts: 9,686
There are no exceptions to the Star Gold admittance policy on a per-airline basis. The way it works is very simple: if a lounge is designated as a Star Gold Lounge, then the star-wide admit rules apply - drink chits and all. The ANA lounge is not a Star Gold lounge because it's operated by AF - and it's common practice throughout the alliance that where multiple lounges exist in an airport, the contract/third party ones are generally not Star Gold (this is not a universal policy, but a common one).
And, FWIW, your argument feels like a bit of a straw man.
<G>
And, FWIW, your argument feels like a bit of a straw man.
<G>
While I agree, it is most likely not an issue, the potential is the same as my above example. A discrepancy occurs here. UA cusomers cannot use NH's lounge (because it is AF as you say...makes since to me.) But NH customers can burden UA with the cost of them. It appears the same as the econo plus. 1 carrier fronts all the cost, the other gets extra benefits. In the world of cost cutting, do you think that bringing this to their attention by causeing a scene, and then haveing a zillion post thread at the front of FT might bring this to someone's attention? Maybe, most likely not. WHo would have thought that star silver/gold would have had econo plus taken away. Not many.
Jul 9, 2007, 11:03 pm
#281
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 23,999
It didn't ambush the RCC Woman, you did. You thought out the whole scene before you entered the RCC or you would not have been prepared....with rules and knowledge of history of complaints on the forum and your own experience. You chose to confront. Ready for bear...You appear to have enjoyed it?
As to the RCC woman calling security....Do you really think she doesn't know she must explain her actions to her superiors? Do you really think she would call security without cause? Somehow, if your story is true, she perceived a threat from you. You may deny it or disagree, but according to you it happened and to you.
Wonder if your dad was winking at her? [s]
When you honor people you give them freedom of choice.... to listen or not. Demanding they listen or read your paper rules is not honoring, and can be perceived as a threat; for them, loss of freedom. So a normal reaction is to become secure again in ones freedom...thus the call for security....Hope this gives some understanding....
When you say you know what is best for United...Do you think this might be heard as a bit arrogant? You may have suggestions, due to your vast flying experience with United, but they can choose to hear them or not.
P.S. No Rosa Parks...similar to Michael Moore, he has made a living out of ambushing.
As to the RCC woman calling security....Do you really think she doesn't know she must explain her actions to her superiors? Do you really think she would call security without cause? Somehow, if your story is true, she perceived a threat from you. You may deny it or disagree, but according to you it happened and to you.
Wonder if your dad was winking at her? [s]
When you honor people you give them freedom of choice.... to listen or not. Demanding they listen or read your paper rules is not honoring, and can be perceived as a threat; for them, loss of freedom. So a normal reaction is to become secure again in ones freedom...thus the call for security....Hope this gives some understanding....
When you say you know what is best for United...Do you think this might be heard as a bit arrogant? You may have suggestions, due to your vast flying experience with United, but they can choose to hear them or not.
P.S. No Rosa Parks...similar to Michael Moore, he has made a living out of ambushing.
I wouldn't have been prepared if I didn't plan an ambush you say? You don't know me, that's for sure! I have a folder with most of the profiles in that UA thread with me AT ALL TIMES when flying. Heck, I take it with me everytime I fly, even if it's not on UA. ALWAYS!
There is no way the RCC woman felt threatened. That's crazy! No, to be honest I don't think she really realized what she was doing. These ladies at IAD seem to play this game for fun, and I don't think there is anyway to explain that. I don't know why you would possibly give her the benefit of the doubt regarding feeling threatened, while accuse me of being threatening.
OK, concerning what is good for United: The key word here is THINK. When voting for a politician we vote for who we THINK is best for our country, not necessarily the best candidate. So is voting for president arrogant? Am I not entitled to think what I want regarding what is best for UA? Sure they can choose to hear them or not, but once again it's what I THINK is best for United, and not what United is doing. It amazes me that this is so complicated.
You're calling me a Michael Moore? Wow, that's low!
Jul 9, 2007, 11:14 pm
#282
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: What I write is my opinion alone..don't read into it anything not written.
Posts: 9,686
You are killing me! Discrimination by age is something that he is not old enough to qualify for. Everything is appropriate. Part of the thread is a request for vouchers for alcoholic beverages. To the question of tone/attitude, it may not be a contributing factor, but as to the entire situation taken as a whole, every detail is appropriate.
"But given that the Supe is higher up, I assume they can give instructions to the SD about what to do? Therefor, I'd rather go to the Supe. I don't need the Supe to know HOW to reissue my ticket. I need them to tell someone to do it for me. Never had a problem getting things done with the Supes, unlike the SD's."
We'll talk about this quote...I have some DOOZIE stories to tell about that opinion....but the drink chits are on you! And you gotta give 2 to Lucky as well for creating one of the better threads we have had in a few weeks (it's been slow on FT, n'est pas?)
"But given that the Supe is higher up, I assume they can give instructions to the SD about what to do? Therefor, I'd rather go to the Supe. I don't need the Supe to know HOW to reissue my ticket. I need them to tell someone to do it for me. Never had a problem getting things done with the Supes, unlike the SD's."
We'll talk about this quote...I have some DOOZIE stories to tell about that opinion....but the drink chits are on you! And you gotta give 2 to Lucky as well for creating one of the better threads we have had in a few weeks (it's been slow on FT, n'est pas?)
Jul 9, 2007, 11:51 pm
#283
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: The opinion expessed here are not necessarly those of United Airlines or any affiliates or subsidiaries of UAL Corp..
Posts: 768
I agree that the IAD RCC staff is in need of some re training. From hearing the many tales of FT's not getting the 2 drink chits as stated by UA's rules it starts to make me wonder if some bean counter has told the IAD RCC staff to not freely give the pax what their do. I would seem to me that the IAD RCC staff by now would have gone to a mgr during a meeting and said " hey SD,SUP everyday during my shift my RCC PAX ask me for 2 drink chits is there anyway we can have the policy changed so that I can provide our guest with great service"? The Sup could let the staff know that the RCC Pax are in titled to 2 drink chits and "I'll be sure to get all staffer's a copy of the rules so that your able to service our Pax better".
But who I'm kidding in a perfect world that's how it should be. At UA the staff aren't ask for their ideas on how to provide better service and most times if you think outside the box to better the pax your written up. (see posts on CS being in trouble for a 1 min delay).
The RCC staffer wouldn't be in trouble for given an 18 y.o. the chit, the bartender would be the one in trouble since he/she was the one who served him w/o checking his ID.
But who I'm kidding in a perfect world that's how it should be. At UA the staff aren't ask for their ideas on how to provide better service and most times if you think outside the box to better the pax your written up. (see posts on CS being in trouble for a 1 min delay).
The RCC staffer wouldn't be in trouble for given an 18 y.o. the chit, the bartender would be the one in trouble since he/she was the one who served him w/o checking his ID.
Jul 10, 2007, 12:53 am
#284
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: SJC/SFO
Programs: WN A+ CP, UA 1MM/*A Gold, Mar LT Tit, IHG Plat, HH Dia
Posts: 6,285
However, something to contemplate that I think is more important was the “cost” to UA (both employees and customers) of using the Sup for 20+ minutes? Did it mean that someone in line who needed a Sup override missed a flight see their dying parent? What about another 1K trying to get rebooked on a last-minute flight to get home in time to catch their kid’s soccer game? Or a group of people who are now late and about to miss a connection on an international flight, where a Sup could influence the plane being held? I have a feeling the cost of this incident actually cost UA money, which I truly believe was not the intended effect of the OP.
Jul 10, 2007, 2:29 am
#285
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: San Jose, California, USA
Programs: AS 100K, UA MM, AA MM, IC Plat Amb, Marriott Gold, Hilton Gold, Hyatt Explorist
Posts: 3,146
Melodrama aside, my experience in business is that this kind of argument is usually used against the misbehaving employee. I've heard countless times a high level manager say the equivalent of, "Look, I'm responsible for a staff of 100 air service employees who land and launch 30 aircraft an hour, moving 3000 people in, out, and through this airport. And despite all those responsibilities I just had to spend the last 20 minutes calming down a customer whom YOU threatened to have security drag out of here when all he wanted was what our clearly defined policy grants him. Don't ever waste my time like that again."
(1) the paying customer, who asks the UA employee for a service he or she is entitled to; or
(2) the UA employee, who for no good reason refuses to provide that service.
Obviously, I'm inclined to believe that the supervisor would be more irritated at the UA employee for his/her repeated, inexplicable violation of policy -- which is why I'm hoping that others on FT will take the time to challenge rogue RCC matrons as lucky has done!