2011 Mileage Plus and OnePass elite program developments
Nov 21, 2010 | 6:18 pm
#1006
Moderator: Luxury Hotels and FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palo Alto, California,USA
Posts: 18,254
Welcome to FT, UA1K4EVER!
I once thought that type of moniker could describe me but no longer. First of all, realize that UA backed down on CR1's for 2011 only because of the heavy protest, not in spite of it.
Second, I think you are right -- CR1's and SWU's are now of dubious value. At least they are for me, as my use of these instruments is to gain confirmed upgrades at time of booking, and there is no indication that UA will retract the huge reduction in confirmable upgrades (apparently to zero on many routes) put into place about a year ago.
That's the main benefit of 1k for me; the fee waivers and red carpet are minor.
So if UA awards a benefit that can't be used, is it really a benefit? Not for me, and that's why 2010 will be my last year as a 1k.
Finally, what makes you think that this will be the last devaluation? History suggests otherwise.
I once thought that type of moniker could describe me but no longer. First of all, realize that UA backed down on CR1's for 2011 only because of the heavy protest, not in spite of it.
Second, I think you are right -- CR1's and SWU's are now of dubious value. At least they are for me, as my use of these instruments is to gain confirmed upgrades at time of booking, and there is no indication that UA will retract the huge reduction in confirmable upgrades (apparently to zero on many routes) put into place about a year ago.
That's the main benefit of 1k for me; the fee waivers and red carpet are minor.
So if UA awards a benefit that can't be used, is it really a benefit? Not for me, and that's why 2010 will be my last year as a 1k.
Finally, what makes you think that this will be the last devaluation? History suggests otherwise.
Nov 21, 2010 | 6:20 pm
#1007
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ORD
Programs: Newly minted AA EXP Plat., disatisfied UA 1K, Marriott Silver & Hilton Gold
Posts: 704
You guys need to face the facts. If you fly 1 million miles on United they don't care. They will probably give you 2 token CR-1s, if they feel like it, but that's it. Oh, I forgot, you will get credit card offers too. But they really don't care what business you gave them, they only care about how much you will be spending this year and next year. Your prior loyalty means nothing to United.
Once you understand that, you will be much happier. Realize that every flight to them doesn't mean anything once you've paid for it. You personally mean nothing to them. Don't expect anything from them. We will all be happy if we accept this.
Ditto on the value of SWUs and CR-1s. If you are using them, be prepared to sweat it out until close to the 100 hour window. It's not really much of a perk. If you want an upgrade, buy the seat or pay for the upgrade.
Once you understand that, you will be much happier. Realize that every flight to them doesn't mean anything once you've paid for it. You personally mean nothing to them. Don't expect anything from them. We will all be happy if we accept this.
Ditto on the value of SWUs and CR-1s. If you are using them, be prepared to sweat it out until close to the 100 hour window. It's not really much of a perk. If you want an upgrade, buy the seat or pay for the upgrade.
Last edited by iluv2fly; Nov 21, 2010 at 6:39 pm Reason: merge
Nov 21, 2010 | 6:44 pm
#1008
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SFO, SJC
Programs: UA MM /Gold ; AS MVP Gold; SWA A LIst and CP; HH Gold; Bonvoy Titanium; IHG Plat Elite
Posts: 592
Whenever I choose to fly VX it's primarily because I like their product (at least on the SFO-LAX-SFO hops), timing works and the price is right. Points, loyalty program etc... isn't a deciding factor. I like getting rewarded but I'm not going to charge my client $200 for a UA ticket when the same trip (with similar departure times) costs $120 (or less) on VX. Once upon a time I think VX had pts that "timed out". Since I don't think my flying patterns on VX would earn enough in one year to get a SIGNIFICANT benefit I don't care how many points got earned/expire.
Nov 21, 2010 | 7:12 pm
#1009
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 1999
Posts: 12,375
Do you know anything on this specific point or were you just speculating?
Nov 21, 2010 | 7:14 pm
#1010
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: DFW
Programs: UA MM 1K, Marriott Bonvoy Lifetime Platinum
Posts: 250
+1 1k dissatisfied member. Not much of clarification on new COUnited 1MM rules and benefits. Lifetime 1P+ or 1P-? Is it still BIS miles requirement? Or will flying with other *A carriers miles count in the new merged 1mm programs?
Nov 21, 2010 | 7:45 pm
#1011
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: SNA
Programs: UA Million Mile Nobody, Marriott Platinum Elite, SPG Gold
Posts: 25,228
You guys need to face the facts. If you fly 1 million miles on United they don't care. They will probably give you 2 token CR-1s, if they feel like it, but that's it. Oh, I forgot, you will get credit card offers too. But they really don't care what business you gave them, they only care about how much you will be spending this year and next year. Your prior loyalty means nothing to United.
Once you understand that, you will be much happier. Realize that every flight to them doesn't mean anything once you've paid for it. You personally mean nothing to them. Don't expect anything from them. We will all be happy if we accept this.
Ditto on the value of SWUs and CR-1s. If you are using them, be prepared to sweat it out until close to the 100 hour window. It's not really much of a perk. If you want an upgrade, buy the seat or pay for the upgrade.
Once you understand that, you will be much happier. Realize that every flight to them doesn't mean anything once you've paid for it. You personally mean nothing to them. Don't expect anything from them. We will all be happy if we accept this.
Ditto on the value of SWUs and CR-1s. If you are using them, be prepared to sweat it out until close to the 100 hour window. It's not really much of a perk. If you want an upgrade, buy the seat or pay for the upgrade.
Nov 21, 2010 | 7:54 pm
#1012
Join Date: May 2008
Location: ORD
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 11
I am one of the EQS warriors. New thread is a great way to see the volume of those effected.
Nov 21, 2010 | 8:28 pm
#1013
Join Date: Mar 2008
Programs: United 1K, HH Diamond, CBP Global Entry
Posts: 732
The more i think about the new CR1 earning structure, the more I think its UA's way to spread more of the CR1s down to lower elite levels.
think about it -
1) although 1K's might get less, a lot of Platinum and 1P's will now get 2 or 4 or more CR1s.
2) also, one can now earn CR1s during the time they build up to 1K rather than only BIS miles AFTER attaining 1K.
3) also, if you fly heavily in one quarter, but none/little in another quarter, the cumulative EQM system would benefit you over the BIS-per-quarter system.
Overall, although its not likely an improvement for most 1K's, it would be for many sub-1K's, and those just building up status to 1K. And there are way more 1P's/Platinums than 1K's in total.
So it may be a redistribution of CR1 earning potential somewhat, but from UA's perspective, the new system might be a wash in total CR1s handed out - while encouraging lower elites to fly more UA/Star.
my $0.02.
think about it -
1) although 1K's might get less, a lot of Platinum and 1P's will now get 2 or 4 or more CR1s.
2) also, one can now earn CR1s during the time they build up to 1K rather than only BIS miles AFTER attaining 1K.
3) also, if you fly heavily in one quarter, but none/little in another quarter, the cumulative EQM system would benefit you over the BIS-per-quarter system.
Overall, although its not likely an improvement for most 1K's, it would be for many sub-1K's, and those just building up status to 1K. And there are way more 1P's/Platinums than 1K's in total.
So it may be a redistribution of CR1 earning potential somewhat, but from UA's perspective, the new system might be a wash in total CR1s handed out - while encouraging lower elites to fly more UA/Star.
my $0.02.
Nov 21, 2010 | 8:41 pm
#1014
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: ORD, LAS
Programs: AA-EXP, BAEC Silver, Hyatt-Globalist, Hilton-gold, SPG-gold
Posts: 855
Nov 21, 2010 | 9:04 pm
#1015
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Pacific Northwest
Programs: UA Gold 1MM, AS Plat, AA EP, Bonvoy Plat, Hilton Dia, Hyatt Glob, IHG Plat, ...
Posts: 21,541
Nov 21, 2010 | 9:21 pm
#1016
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Pacific Northwest
Programs: UA Gold 1MM, AS Plat, AA EP, Bonvoy Plat, Hilton Dia, Hyatt Glob, IHG Plat, ...
Posts: 21,541
It would be interesting to see how many people here are likely affected by the segment change. In that private forum chat, UA/CO reps apparently indicated that they believe it only impacts a small number of people. Why not start a thread here and ask segment flyers to post how many segments they'll fly this year, how this change will likely impact them, and what their plan is (but not debating the actual change itself, that's what this thread is for). Just a thought.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...ers-unite.html
Nov 21, 2010 | 9:51 pm
#1019
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Philadelphia, LAX, Paris
Programs: UA 1K/2MM, SPG/Marriott Lifetime Titanium, Lifetime HHonors Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, AA Exec Plat
Posts: 3,749
There have been very strong reactions following UA's unveiling of how the merged UA/CO FF Program is shaping up to look like. While the strong reactions are understandable or even predictable, we should remember that the FF programs simply had to be reconciled, so that "change" was inevitable. The recent announcement can thus be viewed as the result of the brainstorming session that this "change" required. We got informed on two aspects of the merged program that will follow the transition year (2011): (a) Elite qualification Requirements, and (b) Upgrades. I am currently a UA 1K and would like to provide my take on what the merged program might look like and who the winners and losers are.
1. Elite Qualification after 2011 for Merged FF Program
On Dec 31, 2011, OneP and MP miles will be combined. The total EQM would determine the members elite status for 2012-2013, which it appears would retain the current MP nomenclature:
A. 1K if total EQM = 100K or more BUT EQS requirement went UP to 120
B. 1P if total EQM is at least 50K but less than 100K
C. 2P if total EQM is at least 25 K but less than 50K
Implications for current MP elites: Except for those who qualify for 1K by EQS, the transition to the merged program should have minimal effect on most current MP elites.
Implication for current OneP Elites: More miles (25k more) will be required to reach the top elite status (1K) in the merged program compared to their current program. It seems that OneP members aiming for the top will need to work harder than they are used to, to maintain 'top' status. Overall effect: Slight short-term set back but this will level playing field going forward (i.e., it makes qualification rules the same across the board, which was an important goal).
2. Upgrades in the Merged Program
1. The current MP nomenclature (UDU, CR1, SWU) has been retained
2. UDU and SWU would remain pretty much as they are under the current MP, except that 1K qualifiers will now have the option to request all their 6 SWUs upon qualification rather than to wait until Jan 1 a net plus.
3. Requirements for earning CR1s has changed significantly: Any remember who reaches 75 EQM automatically qualifies for 2 CR1s, and then every 25k EQM thereafter the member will qualify for 2 additional CR1s, with no limit the number of CR1s that can be earned [1Ks are guaranteed 4 CR1s or 50% of current max]. Whether or not this a positive or negative is highly personal. For this Intl traveler who still has 5 CR1s in the inventory and is likely to lose them, this change in the CR1 earning requirement is just about right. We should remember that UA does not seem to be too fond of CR1s, as they had already axed them following UDU only to bring them back after 1Ks complained...
4. 1P Elites who reach 75K EQM will have UG priority over regular 1Ps: This essentially creates a new elite class (call it 1P+) between 1P and 1K that (a) receives 2 CR1s and (b) has upgrade priority over 1P. This is where we might find many of OnePs current PE...
In summary, the merged program did not devalue 1K as much as many have claimed. In fact, most 1Ks should be very pleased because their benefits, other than the dubious value of CR1, have not been affected. I qualify by EQMs and not EQSs so I cannot fully express how detrimental the increased EQS requirement might be. For me nothing changed. Current MP 1Ps might have been demoted with the insertion of the 1P+ status, but the plus side is that they can look forward to making that status rather than 1K, which might be out of reach.
Rather than looking at the inevitable changes and just concluding that they are all bad, it might be worth it for each of us to examine them and see precisely how "good", "bad" or "unchanged" our own situation might be.
For me, I feel that I am now member of a great airline that offers me more options for seamless long distance travel across 5 continents while still enjoying the perks of being a UA1K4EVER!
1. Elite Qualification after 2011 for Merged FF Program
On Dec 31, 2011, OneP and MP miles will be combined. The total EQM would determine the members elite status for 2012-2013, which it appears would retain the current MP nomenclature:
A. 1K if total EQM = 100K or more BUT EQS requirement went UP to 120
B. 1P if total EQM is at least 50K but less than 100K
C. 2P if total EQM is at least 25 K but less than 50K
Implications for current MP elites: Except for those who qualify for 1K by EQS, the transition to the merged program should have minimal effect on most current MP elites.
Implication for current OneP Elites: More miles (25k more) will be required to reach the top elite status (1K) in the merged program compared to their current program. It seems that OneP members aiming for the top will need to work harder than they are used to, to maintain 'top' status. Overall effect: Slight short-term set back but this will level playing field going forward (i.e., it makes qualification rules the same across the board, which was an important goal).
2. Upgrades in the Merged Program
1. The current MP nomenclature (UDU, CR1, SWU) has been retained
2. UDU and SWU would remain pretty much as they are under the current MP, except that 1K qualifiers will now have the option to request all their 6 SWUs upon qualification rather than to wait until Jan 1 a net plus.
3. Requirements for earning CR1s has changed significantly: Any remember who reaches 75 EQM automatically qualifies for 2 CR1s, and then every 25k EQM thereafter the member will qualify for 2 additional CR1s, with no limit the number of CR1s that can be earned [1Ks are guaranteed 4 CR1s or 50% of current max]. Whether or not this a positive or negative is highly personal. For this Intl traveler who still has 5 CR1s in the inventory and is likely to lose them, this change in the CR1 earning requirement is just about right. We should remember that UA does not seem to be too fond of CR1s, as they had already axed them following UDU only to bring them back after 1Ks complained...
4. 1P Elites who reach 75K EQM will have UG priority over regular 1Ps: This essentially creates a new elite class (call it 1P+) between 1P and 1K that (a) receives 2 CR1s and (b) has upgrade priority over 1P. This is where we might find many of OnePs current PE...
In summary, the merged program did not devalue 1K as much as many have claimed. In fact, most 1Ks should be very pleased because their benefits, other than the dubious value of CR1, have not been affected. I qualify by EQMs and not EQSs so I cannot fully express how detrimental the increased EQS requirement might be. For me nothing changed. Current MP 1Ps might have been demoted with the insertion of the 1P+ status, but the plus side is that they can look forward to making that status rather than 1K, which might be out of reach.
Rather than looking at the inevitable changes and just concluding that they are all bad, it might be worth it for each of us to examine them and see precisely how "good", "bad" or "unchanged" our own situation might be.
For me, I feel that I am now member of a great airline that offers me more options for seamless long distance travel across 5 continents while still enjoying the perks of being a UA1K4EVER!
I agree with your assessments, and I believe that you will be pretty close with your predictions when the dust settles at the end of 2011.
I particularly agree with your point that the 75K/1P+ tier will go away, and therefore there will be only 3 tiers in 2012 like it is today: 1K, 1P, & 2P.
That's why this MM is NOT at all upset, unlike many others in this thread, as I'm not done flying yet so I'm not too worried about what will be happening with the future. I predict that there will be many more changes to the MP program in the years to come.
Nov 21, 2010 | 9:51 pm
#1020
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
It got more expensive and didn't actually require flying at all. But that's quite different than the traditional DEQM promos of last year.
That tier was specifically announced to START in 2012. Do you really believe they'll kill it before it ever gets off the ground? I do not.
That tier was specifically announced to START in 2012. Do you really believe they'll kill it before it ever gets off the ground? I do not.