Jan 4, 2021, 1:37 am
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
This is an archive thread, the archive thread is https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-airlines-mileageplus/1960195-b737max-cleared-faa-resume-passenger-flights-when-will-ua-max-flights-resume.html
Thread Topic
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
United does not fly the 737 MAX 8 that has been involved in two recent crashes, but it does operate the 737 MAX 9.
How to tell if your flight is scheduled to be operated by the MAX 9:
View your reservation or flight status page, either on the web or on the app. United lists the entire aircraft type. Every flight that is scheduled to be on the 737 MAX will say "Boeing 737 MAX 9." If you see anything else -- for example, "Boeing 737-900," it is not scheduled to be a MAX at this time.
The same is true in search results and anywhere else on the United site.
For advanced users: UA uses the three letter IATA identifier 7M9 for the 737 MAX 9.
All 737 MAX aircraft worldwide (MAX 8, MAX 9, and MAX 10) are currently grounded.
Thread Topic
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
READ BEFORE POSTING
Once again many posters in this thread have forgotten the FT rules and resorted to "Personal attacks, insults, baiting and flaming " and other non-collegial, non-civil discourse. This is not allowed.
Posters appear to be talking at others, talking about others, not discussing the core issues. Repeating the same statements, saying the same thing LOUDER is not civil discourse. These problems are not with one poster, they are not just one point of view, ...
As useful as some discussion here has been, continuing rules violations will lead to suspensions and thread closure. Please think about that before posting.
The purpose of FT is to be an informative forum that, in this case, enables the UA flyer to enhance their travel experience. There are other forums for different types of discussions. This thread was had wide latitude but that latitude is being abused.
Bottom line, if you can not stay within the FT rules and the forum's topic areas, please do not post.
And before posting, ask if you are bringing new contributing information to the discussion -- not just repeating previous points, then please do not post.
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
Once again many posters in this thread have forgotten the FT rules and resorted to "Personal attacks, insults, baiting and flaming " and other non-collegial, non-civil discourse. This is not allowed.
Posters appear to be talking at others, talking about others, not discussing the core issues. Repeating the same statements, saying the same thing LOUDER is not civil discourse. These problems are not with one poster, they are not just one point of view, ...
As useful as some discussion here has been, continuing rules violations will lead to suspensions and thread closure. Please think about that before posting.
The purpose of FT is to be an informative forum that, in this case, enables the UA flyer to enhance their travel experience. There are other forums for different types of discussions. This thread was had wide latitude but that latitude is being abused.
Bottom line, if you can not stay within the FT rules and the forum's topic areas, please do not post.
And before posting, ask if you are bringing new contributing information to the discussion -- not just repeating previous points, then please do not post.
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
This thread has engendered some strongly felt opinions and a great tendency to wander into many peripherally related topics. By all normal FT moderation standards, this thread would have been permanently closed long ago ( and numerous members receiving disciplinary actions).
However, given the importance of the subject, the UA Moderators have tried to host this discussion but odd here as UA is not the top 1 or 2 or 3 for MAX among North America carriers. However, some have allowed their passion and non-UA related opinions to repeatedly disrupt this discussion.
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
Discussion of Boeing's culture or the impact on Boeing's future is not in scope. Nor is comments on restructuring the regulatory process. Neither is the impacts on COVID on the general air industry -- those are not UA specific and are better discussed elsewhere. And for discussion of UA's future, there is a separate thread.
Additionally repeated postings of essentially the same content should not happen nor unnecessarily inflammatory posts. And of course, the rest of FT posting rules apply including discuss the issue and not the posters.
The Moderator team feels there is a reason / need for this thread but it has been exhausting to have to repeated re-focus the discussion -- don't be the reason this thread is permanently closed ( and get yourself in disciplinary problems).
Stick to the relevant topic which is (repeating myself)
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
However, given the importance of the subject, the UA Moderators have tried to host this discussion but odd here as UA is not the top 1 or 2 or 3 for MAX among North America carriers. However, some have allowed their passion and non-UA related opinions to repeatedly disrupt this discussion.
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
Discussion of Boeing's culture or the impact on Boeing's future is not in scope. Nor is comments on restructuring the regulatory process. Neither is the impacts on COVID on the general air industry -- those are not UA specific and are better discussed elsewhere. And for discussion of UA's future, there is a separate thread.
Additionally repeated postings of essentially the same content should not happen nor unnecessarily inflammatory posts. And of course, the rest of FT posting rules apply including discuss the issue and not the posters.
The Moderator team feels there is a reason / need for this thread but it has been exhausting to have to repeated re-focus the discussion -- don't be the reason this thread is permanently closed ( and get yourself in disciplinary problems).
Stick to the relevant topic which is (repeating myself)
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
United does not fly the 737 MAX 8 that has been involved in two recent crashes, but it does operate the 737 MAX 9.
How to tell if your flight is scheduled to be operated by the MAX 9:
View your reservation or flight status page, either on the web or on the app. United lists the entire aircraft type. Every flight that is scheduled to be on the 737 MAX will say "Boeing 737 MAX 9." If you see anything else -- for example, "Boeing 737-900," it is not scheduled to be a MAX at this time.
The same is true in search results and anywhere else on the United site.
For advanced users: UA uses the three letter IATA identifier 7M9 for the 737 MAX 9.
All 737 MAX aircraft worldwide (MAX 8, MAX 9, and MAX 10) are currently grounded.
B737MAX Recertification - Archive
Mar 20, 2019, 10:28 am
#616
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Washington DC
Programs: Delta DM CO PE OZ GE AMTRAK
Posts: 524
so the first A320 apparently crashed in an airshow during a demo. just saying' who killed whom is not clear at this point. is it the pilot? is it the airline? is it the mechanics. is it FAA? is it Boeing? or a combination of those. TO simply say it is boeing's fault is vast simplification of issues present, obviously this is good enough for most world's media and to most people who suddenly become interested in this and became armchair expert overnight.
Mar 20, 2019, 10:48 am
#617
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: KEWR
Programs: Marriott Platinum
Posts: 794
so the first A320 apparently crashed in an airshow during a demo. just saying' who killed whom is not clear at this point. is it the pilot? is it the airline? is it the mechanics. is it FAA? is it Boeing? or a combination of those. TO simply say it is boeing's fault is vast simplification of issues present, obviously this is good enough for most world's media and to most people who suddenly become interested in this and became armchair expert overnight.
I personally would not hesitate to get on any 737 Max aircraft today if allowed. Boeing makes great airplanes.
I would not however ride on any commercial jet flown by a 200 hour pilot or on an airline with known, documented maintenance issues.
Mar 20, 2019, 10:55 am
#618
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3,361
One thing that is abundantly clear to me is that I have full confidence in United's pilots (and other team members). If they're willing to operate an aircraft, I will be ready to fly it.
Mar 20, 2019, 11:00 am
#619
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: WAS/ BOM
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Gold, HHonors Gold
Posts: 1,567
Fresh Bloomberg report states that a deadheading pilot in the jumpseat saved the previous day's Lion air flight from crashing by disabling the MCAS system. The flying pilots didn't know what was happening and were working through their checklist. Report - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...d?srnd=premium
Also, apparently as per the voice recorder, the pilots of the Lion Air flight that did crash were following their checklist, but ran out of airspace to work with. This is BAD BAD for Boeing! Wonder if the US delivered planes were simply different or were US airlines given advanced warnings and provided additional material to train their pilots - but multiple US pilots have reported the system acting up and causing issues. Luckily no incidents in the US.
Also, apparently as per the voice recorder, the pilots of the Lion Air flight that did crash were following their checklist, but ran out of airspace to work with. This is BAD BAD for Boeing! Wonder if the US delivered planes were simply different or were US airlines given advanced warnings and provided additional material to train their pilots - but multiple US pilots have reported the system acting up and causing issues. Luckily no incidents in the US.
Mar 20, 2019, 11:21 am
#620
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York, NY
Programs: UA, AA, DL, Hertz, Avis, National, Hyatt, Hilton, SPG, Marriott
Posts: 9,454
but multiple US pilots have reported the system acting up and causing issues
Mar 20, 2019, 11:41 am
#621
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BNA
Programs: HH Gold. (Former) UA PP, DL PM, PC Plat
Posts: 8,184
Every airplane that has a powered pitch-trim system has a runaway trim (or stabilizer) procedure. That includes every airliner build since the beginning of the jet age. I have learned and practiced the runaway trim/stabilizer procedure in every transport jet, and a few general aviation airplanes, that I've flown including the CRJ, DC8, DC9, B757, B767, and B737. This isn't something obscure that is hidden in the fine print of a thousand-page manual.
Mar 20, 2019, 11:45 am
#622
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: DSM, BKK or anywhere with an airport
Programs: UA 2P, HH Gold
Posts: 1,018
Fresh Bloomberg report states that a deadheading pilot in the jumpseat saved the previous day's Lion air flight from crashing by disabling the MCAS system. The flying pilots didn't know what was happening and were working through their checklist. Report - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...d?srnd=premium
Also, apparently as per the voice recorder, the pilots of the Lion Air flight that did crash were following their checklist, but ran out of airspace to work with. This is BAD BAD for Boeing! Wonder if the US delivered planes were simply different or were US airlines given advanced warnings and provided additional material to train their pilots - but multiple US pilots have reported the system acting up and causing issues. Luckily no incidents in the US.
Also, apparently as per the voice recorder, the pilots of the Lion Air flight that did crash were following their checklist, but ran out of airspace to work with. This is BAD BAD for Boeing! Wonder if the US delivered planes were simply different or were US airlines given advanced warnings and provided additional material to train their pilots - but multiple US pilots have reported the system acting up and causing issues. Luckily no incidents in the US.
(CNN)An off-duty pilot in the cockpit of a Boeing 737 Max 8 jet jumped in to help crew disable a malfunctioning flight-control system as it experienced difficulties in October, according to Bloomberg.
The next day, with a different crew, the same plane crashed into the sea off Jakarta, killing all 189 people on board.
On doomed Lion Air Flight 610, pilots searched in a handbook for a way to stop the plane from nosediving, according to an exclusive Reuters report.
Apparently the pilots on the doomed Lion Air flight were desperately searching for a solution in their checklists right up until the plane impacted the water.
Mar 20, 2019, 11:50 am
#623
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: USA
Programs: UA Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,195
I agree this incident is bad for Boeing but IMO for much of the same reason Alar was bad for Washington apple growers right after that great agricultural expert, Meryl Streep, testified before Congress about the dangers to our children.
Yes, there have been a number accidents with the 737 worldwide ... over the course of 50+ years and tens of thousands of flights. As I said much earlier, one would have to be an idiot to not take pause over 2 similar sounding accidents happening on a brand-new aircraft in a short time. On the other hand, I still haven't seen much in the way of evidence except that Lion Air's crews apparently did not have anywhere near the level of training of US mainline pilots and that Lion Air had a horrible maintenance record (which still gives me pause on a new aircraft). Ethiopian has a much different history and I still trust the FAA professionals that I've seen so I'll trust their judgment and wait for more evidence to come out before screaming about corporate malfeasance, criminal or civil charges against Boeing or FAA employees, etc.
BTW, multiple reports from one or two pilots are not the same thing as reports from multiple pilots. The mainstream media coverage I've seen seems to overlook that.
Yes, there have been a number accidents with the 737 worldwide ... over the course of 50+ years and tens of thousands of flights. As I said much earlier, one would have to be an idiot to not take pause over 2 similar sounding accidents happening on a brand-new aircraft in a short time. On the other hand, I still haven't seen much in the way of evidence except that Lion Air's crews apparently did not have anywhere near the level of training of US mainline pilots and that Lion Air had a horrible maintenance record (which still gives me pause on a new aircraft). Ethiopian has a much different history and I still trust the FAA professionals that I've seen so I'll trust their judgment and wait for more evidence to come out before screaming about corporate malfeasance, criminal or civil charges against Boeing or FAA employees, etc.
BTW, multiple reports from one or two pilots are not the same thing as reports from multiple pilots. The mainstream media coverage I've seen seems to overlook that.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Mar 20, 2019 at 11:58 am Reason: Discuss the issues, not the poster(s)
Mar 20, 2019, 11:55 am
#624
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.995MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,855
....
Lastly the announcement by AC and UA a few days ago about summer impacts is just bad timing...no need to even mention revenue projections with a prolonged grounding...do people even think how that may be viewed less than week since the grounding... furthers the perception of $ over safety ....
Lastly the announcement by AC and UA a few days ago about summer impacts is just bad timing...no need to even mention revenue projections with a prolonged grounding...do people even think how that may be viewed less than week since the grounding... furthers the perception of $ over safety ....
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Mar 20, 2019 at 12:02 pm
Mar 20, 2019, 12:03 pm
#625
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: WAS/ BOM
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Gold, HHonors Gold
Posts: 1,567
Where was that reported? If you are referring to the shallow analysis of the ASRS reports from last week, that's been thoroughly debunked as it relates to MCAS.
Mar 20, 2019, 12:18 pm
#626
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Houston,TX
Programs: UA Plat, Mil Miler, Marriott Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium Elite, National Exec. Elite, Hertz Prez Circle
Posts: 191
Pardon me...what is OMNI?
Mar 20, 2019, 12:21 pm
#627
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pasadena, California
Programs: UA 1K, 1MM
Posts: 10,412
OMNI is the catch-all forum where people on FT can discuss non-travel related topics. You need to have a certain number of posts and time on FT (I forget the thresholds). It's all over the place. This topic would not be found in OMNI.
I used to be an OMNI junkie.
But I'm all better now. 
I used to be an OMNI junkie.
But I'm all better now.
Last edited by iapetus; Mar 20, 2019 at 12:27 pm
Mar 20, 2019, 12:32 pm
#628
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Houston,TX
Programs: UA Plat, Mil Miler, Marriott Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium Elite, National Exec. Elite, Hertz Prez Circle
Posts: 191
Analogous to GM asking me if I want an airbag in my car - and if I do, which common sense dictates I should, I need to pay an additional line item charge. (Let's disregard that airbags are mandatory, it's just an example).
Who in their right mind would forgo an airbag when it appears to be such a critical safety requirement?
Who in their right mind would forgo an airbag when it appears to be such a critical safety requirement?
Mar 20, 2019, 12:39 pm
#629
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Houston,TX
Programs: UA Plat, Mil Miler, Marriott Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium Elite, National Exec. Elite, Hertz Prez Circle
Posts: 191
Quite simply, the fight would not have been in vain if the pilots executed a procedure for which they had been trained.
The question, of course, is why were the pilots even in the position where their (correct) affirmative response was the only thing standing between survival and disaster? As we have maintained throughout this excellent thread, is that the two crashes appear to be the combination of a poorly-designed system that inexplicably did not incorporate the redundancy and fail-safe features of other, similar flight control augmentation systems, plus the final link in the causal chain... improper crew management of an emergency situation. Unfortunately, human factors always play a role.
Boeing has a major problem in that it appears to have designed a system that creates a dynamic situation where a crew's options dwindle much too quickly in the event of a single point of failure. That's not acceptable.
The question, of course, is why were the pilots even in the position where their (correct) affirmative response was the only thing standing between survival and disaster? As we have maintained throughout this excellent thread, is that the two crashes appear to be the combination of a poorly-designed system that inexplicably did not incorporate the redundancy and fail-safe features of other, similar flight control augmentation systems, plus the final link in the causal chain... improper crew management of an emergency situation. Unfortunately, human factors always play a role.
Boeing has a major problem in that it appears to have designed a system that creates a dynamic situation where a crew's options dwindle much too quickly in the event of a single point of failure. That's not acceptable.
Or at the very least be on television explaining these nuances and summarizing them as lucid as you are doing here...love your analysis.
Mar 20, 2019, 12:40 pm
#630
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York, NY
Programs: UA, AA, DL, Hertz, Avis, National, Hyatt, Hilton, SPG, Marriott
Posts: 9,454
I was referring to this - https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/13/us/pi...max/index.html
That does nothing to dismiss any of the real issues that have been identified about the MAX... but to say that the ASRS database shows that pilots in the USA reported MCAS problems, rather than complaints in the abstract, is factually inaccurate.
Who are you, man? You are amazing! What are you doing here...you should be in France (or in Ethiopia) with NTSB investigating and producing such a quality report; may be you are there, already!
Or at the very least be on television explaining these nuances and summarizing them as lucid as you are doing here...love your analysis.
Or at the very least be on television explaining these nuances and summarizing them as lucid as you are doing here...love your analysis.