Dec 29, 2017, 7:11 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
Please Read
It is the desire of the FT UA Moderation Team to keep this thread open, as there is still much to be learned. While realizing this incident has some elements that have led to some very active discussion; such as the Congresswoman is local to a major UA hub and familiar to many UA flyers, FT has certain rules for discussion. This forum is focused on travel with UA and there are better places for other types of discussion.
After some discussion among the FT UA Moderators, we wish to clarify what is appropriate and what is not.
Not appropriate and better elsewhere
And all the standard FT rules apply including not commenting on other posters and not posting unnecessarily inflammatory, inciting or provocative comments.
Generally, if you are not discussing the incident, good chance you may be Off Topic.
WineCountryUA
on behalf of the UA FT Moderation Team
It is the desire of the FT UA Moderation Team to keep this thread open, as there is still much to be learned. While realizing this incident has some elements that have led to some very active discussion; such as the Congresswoman is local to a major UA hub and familiar to many UA flyers, FT has certain rules for discussion. This forum is focused on travel with UA and there are better places for other types of discussion.
After some discussion among the FT UA Moderators, we wish to clarify what is appropriate and what is not.
Discussion of the actual incident and how it might have happened
Discussion of how UA has handled the event
Discussion if the congresswoman or others forced this to happen
Discussion of UA granting unearned GS status
Discussion of how UA has handled the event
Discussion if the congresswoman or others forced this to happen
Discussion of UA granting unearned GS status
Not appropriate and better elsewhere
Overly political or racial comments about the congresswoman (or anyone else)
General comments about politicians, government officials unrelated to the actual incident
General ethics discussion concerning corporate/government officials accepting complimentary status
General comments about politicians, government officials unrelated to the actual incident
General ethics discussion concerning corporate/government officials accepting complimentary status
And all the standard FT rules apply including not commenting on other posters and not posting unnecessarily inflammatory, inciting or provocative comments.
Generally, if you are not discussing the incident, good chance you may be Off Topic.
WineCountryUA
on behalf of the UA FT Moderation Team
Pax accuses UA of giving her F seat to US Rep
Dec 26, 2017, 9:03 pm
#136
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 38,417
Right, now read that same claim with the context being a gate agent who is looking at a single flight that they are responsible for. Ticket not in the system *for this flight*. Don't have a reservation *for this flight*.
Again, I have no idea what really happened - nobody except United does (and you can guarantee they know exactly what happened!). I'm just saying that the idea of her changing flights via the app (which is what UA initially claimed occurred, and apparently someone from UA provided a screenshot of their systems showing) still fits everything that has been claimed. I can very much see a UA agent downgrading someone in a situation like this (they shouldn't, but I can see it happening). I can't see them pulling the ticket entirely - that just makes zero sense on so many levels.
Again, I have no idea what really happened - nobody except United does (and you can guarantee they know exactly what happened!). I'm just saying that the idea of her changing flights via the app (which is what UA initially claimed occurred, and apparently someone from UA provided a screenshot of their systems showing) still fits everything that has been claimed. I can very much see a UA agent downgrading someone in a situation like this (they shouldn't, but I can see it happening). I can't see them pulling the ticket entirely - that just makes zero sense on so many levels.
United was basically in a no-win situation here, no outcome was good. Someone got bright and thought they figured out a way around it. (And note that if this is the scenario there's no racism. Rather, she got picked because she was in the seat the Congresswoman wanted.)
Dec 26, 2017, 9:06 pm
#137
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA 1K MM, Accor Plat, Htz PC, Natl ExEm, other random status
Posts: 2,876
Dec 26, 2017, 9:06 pm
#138
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: DSM
Programs: UA Platinum, Hilton Diamond, Hertz Pres. Circle
Posts: 235
UA flies Members of Congress and other high-profile government officials all the time. Jackson Lee likely flies this route weekly when Congress is in session. Same for other Members for their respective routes.
I consider it unlikely that UA would boot a passenger and force a DG, knowing that it would cause a scene which is problematic for both UA and Jackson Lee as it did. Much more likely is that the passenger inadverdently cancelled or the UA app glitched. While it was possible to reinstate the ticket, there was no F seat, thus Y.
If UA had wanted to do this, it presumably knew that Jackson Lee was flying and could have handled all of this behind the scenes. Another signal that this was a routine error which, on a percentage shot, lands on a well-known passenger.
I consider it unlikely that UA would boot a passenger and force a DG, knowing that it would cause a scene which is problematic for both UA and Jackson Lee as it did. Much more likely is that the passenger inadverdently cancelled or the UA app glitched. While it was possible to reinstate the ticket, there was no F seat, thus Y.
If UA had wanted to do this, it presumably knew that Jackson Lee was flying and could have handled all of this behind the scenes. Another signal that this was a routine error which, on a percentage shot, lands on a well-known passenger.
Dec 27, 2017, 1:29 am
#139
Join Date: Jan 2000
Programs: UA 1k, AA EXPLT, NZ GE, VA PLT Hyatt Diam, Marr Plat, HH Diam
Posts: 3,445
I don't have a pending flight within the next 24 hours, but is there actually an option to CANCEL when looking at alternative flights? I'd have thought that the only options on the app after check-in would be CHANGE TO XXX FLIGHT or KEEP MY ORIGINAL ITIN. Is there actually a CANCEL option within the alternatives for changing? If so, I'm sure this happens frequently, which makes me think that the app designers wouldn't even allow this option to display WITHIN THE TAKE ALTERNATIVE FLIGHT section of the app.
Dec 27, 2017, 1:30 am
#140
Join Date: Jan 2000
Programs: UA 1k, AA EXPLT, NZ GE, VA PLT Hyatt Diam, Marr Plat, HH Diam
Posts: 3,445
Another item that could be checked on the timeline of events would be whether the pax's boarding pass scanned OK when she entered the United Club, which I assume she used during her transit?
Dec 27, 2017, 1:32 am
#141
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: PWM
Programs: AA Plat
Posts: 1,336
Perhaps you’ve stood by for an earlier connecting flight, for which there is no fee (per a poorly-documented ex-CO policy), or in an IRROPS situation. For an originating/nonstop flight, UA does not offer free standby and has not done so in 7 years (a quick Google search shows the policy went into effect April 28, 2010).
Also, unless your original flight was extremely oversold, it’s unlikely you were doing anyone a favor, least of all the gate agents. You likely just opened up a seat for them to move someone else into later or allow to go free.
If you’ve truly done ordinary, run-of-the-mill standby in the last three years without being charged, the gate agents have been doing you a favor, not vice versa.
Well I suppose there are favors all around
And I am always grateful when agents bend the rules for me. I just find the whole concept of charging for early SBY (not SDC) tacky. Found this old blog post that shows that most airlines don't (or at least didn't used to) charge for SBY.
Last edited by sexykitten7; Dec 27, 2017 at 2:32 am Reason: Added link
Dec 27, 2017, 2:06 am
#142
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Miami, Florida
Programs: AA ExPlat, Hyatt Globalist, IHG Spire, Hilton Gold
Posts: 4,009
SJL: "DYKWIA?"
UA: "Yes, and we don't give a damn."
Dec 27, 2017, 2:17 am
#143
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,417
I don't have a pending flight within the next 24 hours, but is there actually an option to CANCEL when looking at alternative flights? I'd have thought that the only options on the app after check-in would be CHANGE TO XXX FLIGHT or KEEP MY ORIGINAL ITIN. Is there actually a CANCEL option within the alternatives for changing? If so, I'm sure this happens frequently, which makes me think that the app designers wouldn't even allow this option to display WITHIN THE TAKE ALTERNATIVE FLIGHT section of the app.
You are correct that in each case it was the 2nd segment of a single connect itinerary. Certainly not IRROPs. But that really doesn't make a difference bc post-merger UA doesn't distinguish between types of SBY, does it? Are you saying the old policy is still in effect?
Well I suppose there are favors all around And I am always grateful when agents bend the rules for me. I just find the whole concept of charging for early SBY (not SDC) tacky.
And I am always grateful when agents bend the rules for me. I just find the whole concept of charging for early SBY (not SDC) tacky.
Dec 27, 2017, 3:58 am
#144
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 597
Why does United need to make sure some mostly irrelevant congresswoman gets upgraded? Sheila Jackson Lee has exactly zero power over UA. She's a minority member of the Transportation Security subcommittee, which means less than nothing when it comes to UA's operations. UA is taking far more of a hit from this than if the odious SJL had been stuck in E+.
SJL: "DYKWIA?"
UA: "Yes, and we don't give a damn."
SJL: "DYKWIA?"
UA: "Yes, and we don't give a damn."
Incidentally, the Hon. Jackson Lee's travel travails are not limited to airlines. She appears to be the ultimate limousine liberal, demanding a chauffeured government car to drive her the one block from her apartment to her office...
Sheila Jackson Lee, Limousine Liberal | The Weekly Standard
Dec 27, 2017, 4:27 am
#145
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Haze gray and underway
Programs: UA 1K 2MM, HH Diamond, Marriott 'clink clink' Titanium
Posts: 1,784
PS: I wonder what her upgrade percentage is?
Dec 27, 2017, 5:45 am
#146
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: DCA
Programs: UA LT 1K, AA EXP, Bonvoy LT Titan, Avis PC, Hilton Gold
Posts: 9,658
UA knows exactly what happened. They have the ability to look at the record logs, upgrade logs, etc and they know who did what. UA is just keeping quiet on this. This was a major news story in the Wash DC local stations evening news. One that they would keep repeating over and over to make you keep listening to get the final story.
Dec 27, 2017, 6:10 am
#147
Join Date: Oct 2016
Programs: Krisflyer
Posts: 588
Passenger's credibility seems dubious. She keeps talking about paying for the flight (I don't think most of us would count points as paying), she claims she didn't receive an apology (then it turns out that she did, but from a "low-level" employee which she doesn't think counts) or $500 (even though in the same sentence she agrees she did get $500), she can somehow recognise Global Services members on sight to know that the Congresswoman boarded before them, and she seems surprised that they thought she might cause problems (even though she says she had complained and "I told a flight attendant that I knew why I had been bumped").
Don't get me wrong, I would be annoyed too, but it seems there is a perfectly plausible explanation (i.e. that the poor design of the app resulted in her reservation getting cancelled by mistake). The fact that she is adamant that foul play is afoot (with no corroborating evidence, just the allegations of a Republican Congressman) and is bringing up completely irrelevant, but highly emotive, information (servicemen and children boarded after the Congresswoman!!!) makes me sceptical that she has given an objective account of events.
Having seen the photo of the so-called first class seat I have to say I would be pretty disappointed if I had forked out that many miles!
Don't get me wrong, I would be annoyed too, but it seems there is a perfectly plausible explanation (i.e. that the poor design of the app resulted in her reservation getting cancelled by mistake). The fact that she is adamant that foul play is afoot (with no corroborating evidence, just the allegations of a Republican Congressman) and is bringing up completely irrelevant, but highly emotive, information (servicemen and children boarded after the Congresswoman!!!) makes me sceptical that she has given an objective account of events.
Having seen the photo of the so-called first class seat I have to say I would be pretty disappointed if I had forked out that many miles!
Dec 27, 2017, 6:38 am
#148
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: New York NY
Programs: UA Gold, CO Plat, CO Million Miler
Posts: 2,617
I have little doubt that they decided to downgrade the passenger (not off-load) for the congresswoman...whoever did it, "cancelled" her FC seat, but screwed up in shifting her to E+ and ended up really cancelling her segment...More than once, when an agent has manually tried to change something for me on a reservation, they've ended up by cancelling a segment or dropping a waitlist....Last week, I called to Waitlist I/IN economy saver business on a saver economy outbound for which I already waitlisted for the return flight. When I went online immediately after, she had waitlisted the outbound flight but inadvertently cancelled the waitlist on the return flight. I was precise in my instructions, making sure that she knew that she had to withdraw additional miles from my account for the outbound waitlist. But she stilled screwed it up. No malice was involved...just ineptness or last of attention to detail. I was able to easily restore the return waitlist with another call.
Dec 27, 2017, 6:50 am
#149
Join Date: May 2000
Location: IAH
Programs: UA 1K 2.7MM, Marriott Titanium/LT Plat, IHG Spire
Posts: 3,317
Passenger's credibility seems dubious. She keeps talking about paying for the flight (I don't think most of us would count points as paying),
Having seen the photo of the so-called first class seat I have to say I would be pretty disappointed if I had forked out that many miles!
Having seen the photo of the so-called first class seat I have to say I would be pretty disappointed if I had forked out that many miles!
I do agree with you on the seat. Seems like a waste of points.
Dec 27, 2017, 8:07 am
#150
Join Date: Jul 2011
Programs: AA Plat, UA 1K>Plat>moving to Silver
Posts: 2,090
In theory, it should be easy to verify (1) was the politician GS or not, and (2) how on the system did the original passenger get bumped out of their seat, automatically by the system or by an agent?
Also, I recall there have been other accounts on FT in the past of losing seats because of not properly exiting out of "change flights". That is how I learned to be careful about it (thanks, FT!). But if the best case scenario is a known IT glitch by UA, and the worst is a deliberate act by UA staff, in either event, the original flyer should be better compensated by UA.
Also, I think most FT people would think paying with miles is a paid ticket. But mostly, if UA is handing out GS to politicians that regulate it, that should be scandal, and a lot of people would like to know if they have done that. UA knows and can easily let it be known, if they want to.
Also, I recall there have been other accounts on FT in the past of losing seats because of not properly exiting out of "change flights". That is how I learned to be careful about it (thanks, FT!). But if the best case scenario is a known IT glitch by UA, and the worst is a deliberate act by UA staff, in either event, the original flyer should be better compensated by UA.
Also, I think most FT people would think paying with miles is a paid ticket. But mostly, if UA is handing out GS to politicians that regulate it, that should be scandal, and a lot of people would like to know if they have done that. UA knows and can easily let it be known, if they want to.