Last edit by: WineCountryUA
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Let’s have this discussion in a way that, when we look back on it, we can be proud of how we handled ourselves as a community.
The United Moderator team:
J.Edward
l'etoile
Ocn Vw 1K
Pat89339
WineCountryUA
N.B. PLEASE do not alter the contents of this moderator note
CHICAGO, April 27, 2017 /PRNewswire/ -- We are pleased to report that United and Dr. Dao have reached an amicable resolution of the unfortunate incident that occurred aboard flight 3411. We look forward to implementing the improvements we have announced, which will put our customers at the center of everything we do.
What facts do we know?
- UA3411, operated by Republic Airways, ORD-SDF on Sunday, April 9, 2017. UA3411 was the second to last flight to SDF for United. AA3509 and UA4771 were the two remaining departures for the day. Also, AA and DL had connecting options providing for same-day arrival in SDF.
- After the flight was fully boarded, United determined four seats were needed to accommodate crew to SDF for a flight on Monday.
- United solicited volunteers for VDB. (BUT stopped at $800 in UA$s, not cash). Chose not to go to the levels such as 1350 that airlines have been known to go even in case of weather impacted disruption)
- After receiving no volunteers for $800 vouchers, a passenger volunteered for $1,600 and was "laughed at" and refused, United determined four passengers to be removed from the flight.
- One passenger refused and Chicago Aviation Security Officers were called to forcibly remove the passenger.
- The passenger hit the armrest in the aisle and received a concussion, a broken nose, a bloodied lip, and the loss of two teeth.
- After being removed from the plane, the passenger re-boarded saying "I need to go home" repeatedly, before being removed again.
- United spokesman Jonathan Guerin said the flight was sold out — but not oversold. Instead, United and regional affiliate Republic Airlines – the unit that operated Flight 3411 – decided they had to remove four passengers from the flight to accommodate crewmembers who were needed in Louisville the next day for a “downline connection.”
United Express Flight 3411 Review and Action Report - released 27 April 2017
Videos
- Passenger one row behind and on the aisle footage BEFORE man was dragged off https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=655_1492004707
- Videos of man being removed https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4b7_1491983214 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nAZEk6nsNE
- Video of man re-entering plane https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNEQDWpYbZA (link dead)
Internal Communication by Oscar Munoz
Oscar Munoz sent an internal communication to UA employees (sources: View From The Wing, Chicago Tribune):
Dear Team,
Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I've included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.
As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.
I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.
Oscar
Summary of Flight 3411
Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I've included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.
As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.
I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.
Oscar
Summary of Flight 3411
- On Sunday, April 9, after United Express Flight 3411 was fully boarded, United's gate agents were approached by crewmembers that were told they needed to board the flight.
- We sought volunteers and then followed our involuntary denial of boarding process (including offering up to $1,000 in compensation) and when we approached one of these passengers to explain apologetically that he was being denied boarding, he raised his voice and refused to comply with crew member instructions.
- He was approached a few more times after that in order to gain his compliance to come off the aircraft, and each time he refused and became more and more disruptive and belligerent.
- Our agents were left with no choice but to call Chicago Aviation Security Officers to assist in removing the customer from the flight. He repeatedly declined to leave.
- Chicago Aviation Security Officers were unable to gain his cooperation and physically removed him from the flight as he continued to resist - running back onto the aircraft in defiance of both our crew and security officials.
Dear Team,
The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.
I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.
It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.
I promise you we will do better.
Sincerely,
Oscar
The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.
I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.
It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.
I promise you we will do better.
Sincerely,
Oscar
Each flight you take with us represents an important promise we make to you, our customer. It's not simply that we make sure you reach your destination safely and on time, but also that you will be treated with the highest level of service and the deepest sense of dignity and respect.
Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.
For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?
It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.
Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.
That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.
We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.
We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.
While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.
I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. If our chief good as a company is only getting you to and from your destination, that would show a lack of moral imagination on our part. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.
Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."
Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.
We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.
With Great Gratitude,
Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines
Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.
For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?
It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.
Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.
That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.
We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.
We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.
While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.
I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. If our chief good as a company is only getting you to and from your destination, that would show a lack of moral imagination on our part. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.
Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."
Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.
We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.
With Great Gratitude,
Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines
- Chicago Aviation Department said on the Monday afternoon after the incident that the officer who had dragged the passenger off the plane had been placed on leave pending an investigation. Spokesperson Karen Pride said in an email that "The incident on United flight 3411 was not in accordance with our standard operating procedure and the actions of the aviation security officer are obviously not condoned by the Department."
- 4/12/17: Two more Chicago Aviation officers involved are suspended
- Muñoz does ABC interview, announcing United will no longer use law enforcement to remove passengers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90jSUe_vdhM
- United announces policy change that crews traveling on their aircraft must be booked at least 60 minutes prior to departure.
- United releases multiple changes in overbooking / denied boarding policies "We are making changes to ensure that we always put customers first" (http://newsroom.united.com/2017-04-2...mer-Experience) released 27 April 2017
- Statement from United Airlines Regarding Resolution with Dr. David Dao - released 27 April 2017
- Response to Senate Commerce Committee questions - 1 May 2017
- United Airlines PR Boss to Step Down
- James Long, one of several officers involved in removing David Dao from the April 9, 2017, flight to make room for airline employees, filed suit on Tuesday against United, Chicago’s Department of Aviation and its commissioner, Ginger Evans. The lawsuit, filed in the circuit court of Cook County, Illinois, alleges he was not properly trained on how to use force.
Poll: Your Opinion of United Airlines
Poll link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/KP68GYG
Results link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/results...Q6B2B/instant/
Reference MaterialResults link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/results...Q6B2B/instant/
UA's Customer Commitment says:
Occasionally we may not be able to provide you with a seat on a specific flight, even if you hold a ticket, have checked in, are present to board on time, and comply with other requirements. This is called an oversale, and occurs when restrictions apply to operating a particular flight safely (such as aircraft weight limits); when we have to substitute a smaller aircraft in place of a larger aircraft that was originally scheduled; or if more customers have checked in and are prepared to board than we have available seats.
If your flight is in an oversale situation, you will not be denied a seat until we first ask for volunteers willing to give up their confirmed seats. If there are not enough volunteers, we will deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority. If you are involuntarily denied boarding and have complied with our check-in and other applicable rules, we will give you a written statement that describes your rights and explains how we determine boarding priority for an oversold flight. You will generally be entitled to compensation and transportation on an alternate flight.
We make complete rules for the payment of compensation, as well as our policy about boarding priorities, available at airports we serve. We will follow these rules to ensure you are treated fairly. Please be aware that you may be denied boarding without compensation if you do not check in on time or do not meet certain other requirements, or if we offer you alternative transportation that is planned to arrive at your destination or first stopover no later than one hour after the planned arrival time of your original flight.
CoC is here: https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...-carriage.aspxIf your flight is in an oversale situation, you will not be denied a seat until we first ask for volunteers willing to give up their confirmed seats. If there are not enough volunteers, we will deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority. If you are involuntarily denied boarding and have complied with our check-in and other applicable rules, we will give you a written statement that describes your rights and explains how we determine boarding priority for an oversold flight. You will generally be entitled to compensation and transportation on an alternate flight.
We make complete rules for the payment of compensation, as well as our policy about boarding priorities, available at airports we serve. We will follow these rules to ensure you are treated fairly. Please be aware that you may be denied boarding without compensation if you do not check in on time or do not meet certain other requirements, or if we offer you alternative transportation that is planned to arrive at your destination or first stopover no later than one hour after the planned arrival time of your original flight.
Man pulled off of overbooked flight UA3411 (ORD-SDF) 9 Apr 2017 {Settlement reached}
#1246
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 514
#1247
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Between AUS, EWR, and YTO In a little twisty maze of airline seats, all alike.. but I wanna go home with the armadillo
Programs: CO, NW, & UA forum moderator emeritus
Posts: 35,438
Things simply don't work this way. The system for IDB is very objective. If they need 4 people, they will select those with the cheapest tickets. Saver awards, then standard awards, then cheapest fares. Nothing is random about it, as has been reported in the media. They will choose the IDB's, and they don't care what personal circumstances are in play. This is one of the inherent risks of air travel these days, especially if you have no status on an airline.
#1248
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,487
I think many of us have a real problem with the "follow my instructions or I'm calling the police and having you removed" attitude that is occasionally encountered, and Oscar seems to be saying that approach is just fine.
#1249
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: BNE/OOL temporarily-permanently at CAK/PIT
Programs: UA*1K & UA Club, National Ex. Elite, Hertz Pres. Circ., Amex Plat., CLEAR
Posts: 1,703
I don't have problems with getting slammed into an armrest because I don't generally go out of my way to defy the police in a volatile situation.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Apr 10, 2017 at 6:44 pm Reason: quote updated to reflect Moderator edit; and response to removed
#1250
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 575
Not exactly.... if a police officer asks me to deplane... I will obey. Simple.
This was not a random act of violence. Oversold flights happen, and once in a very very uncommon while, IDBs happen.
I simply don't understand how this guy's situation has exploded. He was on the short end of the stick (cheapest fare) and was chosen for IDB after no volunteers were found. UA should have done a better and more proactive job here... but at the end of the day, this situation arose. He was IDB'ed according to UA policy. He disrespected flight attendants and ultimately police officers. He was removed. His injury was a result of his ignorance.... I'm sorry, but I'm just being blunt, honest, and straight-foreward here.
I encourage all of you, and the media to drop this thing. I have done more than enough flying to know how things work. If people wish to purchase airline tickets on almost ANY airline, they need to understand that these things can happen. This could have been DL or WN just as easily.....
Enough... I'm done arguing this thing.
This was not a random act of violence. Oversold flights happen, and once in a very very uncommon while, IDBs happen.
I simply don't understand how this guy's situation has exploded. He was on the short end of the stick (cheapest fare) and was chosen for IDB after no volunteers were found. UA should have done a better and more proactive job here... but at the end of the day, this situation arose. He was IDB'ed according to UA policy. He disrespected flight attendants and ultimately police officers. He was removed. His injury was a result of his ignorance.... I'm sorry, but I'm just being blunt, honest, and straight-foreward here.
I encourage all of you, and the media to drop this thing. I have done more than enough flying to know how things work. If people wish to purchase airline tickets on almost ANY airline, they need to understand that these things can happen. This could have been DL or WN just as easily.....
Enough... I'm done arguing this thing.
#1251
Join Date: Aug 2012
Programs: ba silver
Posts: 729
The fact he is a doctor is irrelevant. Why is his career more important? What about the mom that has to get back to her kids? The dad that will get fired if he is not back? The bride heading to her wedding? The <<blank>> going to <<blank>>. The airlines do not even want to start to go down that road.
Doubt it. They were already offered $800.
As I mentioned above, more money would have solved it, quick.
Ring your call button if you will get off this plane for... $900... $1000... $1200... $2000. At some point, you would have 4 volunteers.
Doubt it. They were already offered $800.
As I mentioned above, more money would have solved it, quick.
Ring your call button if you will get off this plane for... $900... $1000... $1200... $2000. At some point, you would have 4 volunteers.
#1252
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 563
Worse than that. The $1000 in compensation = a hotel room + a travel voucher on United for $800 (with restrictions). There was a very good reason nobody on that flight wanted to take them up on that.
#1253
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 628
If I am physically on board an aircraft as it flies from A to B, let alone before it flies from A to B, does this mean that I am automatically considered to have 'boarded' the flight said aircraft might make from B to C and then onward, for every additional flight that the plane will make that calendar day - or even longer? Never mind the famous guy who has supposedly lived at the CDG airport in Paris for umpteen years, how about I take up permanent residence on an aircraft by virtue of my assuming a seat thereon?
You check in for seat on a flight (or one or more segments thereof, depending on the specifics of your contract), you do not check in for a seat on 'an aircraft.'
Ergo, you board (or do not get to board, as the case may be) a specific flight (or one or more segments thereof), as opposed to boarding 'an aircraft.'
You are if denied boarding to your original flight (or flight segments) usually entitled to be reassigned to a different flight taking you to the same destination - and depending on circumstances, this new flight assignment might actually be the same physical aircraft (said aircraft flies A to B, returns B to A, there to fly once again A to B, this time with you on it.)
Last edited by simpleflyer; Apr 10, 2017 at 7:01 pm
#1254
Join Date: May 2014
Location: DMV
Posts: 2,092
I'd just avoid regionals at all cost. Cancellation or other issues are never far away if you're on something smaller than an A320 or B737 (and more importantly flying with a small-time company posing as part of a bigger brand).
#1255
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: LHR, HKG
Programs: gate lice
Posts: 315
I'm willing to bet that being slammed into the armrest and getting your face bloodied is enough to shock someone.
Last edited by l etoile; Apr 10, 2017 at 6:53 pm Reason: inappropriate comments removed
#1256
Join Date: Sep 2008
Programs: A3 *G, AA exePlat, AS MVP 75k Gold, JL sapphire, UA silver
Posts: 4,035
#1257
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Vegas
Programs: DL Platinum, AA Lifetime Gold, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Platinum, Radisson Premium
Posts: 6,638
Sounds like that's what happened. A defiant and beligirent, likely mentally unstable, passenger was rightfully removed from the aircraft after refusing to deplane. Case closed
#1258
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SEA
Programs: AS MVP Gold75K
Posts: 850
How do we know that the passenger isn't a space alien who was flying to Louisville to destroy Churchill Downs?
#1259
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: BNE/OOL temporarily-permanently at CAK/PIT
Programs: UA*1K & UA Club, National Ex. Elite, Hertz Pres. Circ., Amex Plat., CLEAR
Posts: 1,703
Absolutely! This should be the law. They should keep upping the offer. Especially when this is done to accommodate a couple of employees. I' m pretty sure there would have been plenty of people willing to get off the flight for say... four Polaris first tickets to any UA destination or I'm sure any business traveler would have jumped at say...lifetime Global Services status. These fat cat airline CEOs need to start being more customer focused and place no limit to what they can offer customers in this situation.
What you are proposing would mean any oversold flight could potentially bankrupt an airline, which means they wouldn't overbook flights anymore, and fares would simply cost higher. Some routes would no longer be profitable. There would be fewer total flights, and some destinations would no longer be profitable to fly. Aircraft operated on these routes would be smaller.
Is that really progress? If you want to fly on airlines that don't overbook, you can do that. Most of the larger ones who've tried have had trouble staying in business.
#1260
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Washington DC
Programs: Former 1k, Lifetime UA Gold, Starwood Gold; Avis Preferred; Hertz Gold
Posts: 1,732
EXACTLY. The contract of carriage (to the extent people even know it exists) is intended to be interpreted by ordinary mortals not FT hardcores.. If I'm on the plane I'm boarded. This is not a good line of argument. Oscar is in a tough position trying to defend labor but it's only creating more of a firestorm with customers. If I was him I think it's better to blame the airport police since one was disciplined. Hard call.
The Asian customer angle is interesting.
What's the protocol on how other "competitors" handle this. If the airline industry had a T-Mobile I think it would be a real show.