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Man pulled off of overbooked flight UA3411 (ORD-SDF) 9 Apr 2017 {Settlement reached}

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Old Apr 10, 2017, 8:42 pm
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Statement from United Airlines Regarding Resolution with Dr. David Dao - released 27 April 2017
CHICAGO, April 27, 2017 /PRNewswire/ -- We are pleased to report that United and Dr. Dao have reached an amicable resolution of the unfortunate incident that occurred aboard flight 3411. We look forward to implementing the improvements we have announced, which will put our customers at the center of everything we do.
DOT findings related to the UA3411 9 April 2017 IDB incident 12 May 2017

What facts do we know?
  • UA3411, operated by Republic Airways, ORD-SDF on Sunday, April 9, 2017. UA3411 was the second to last flight to SDF for United. AA3509 and UA4771 were the two remaining departures for the day. Also, AA and DL had connecting options providing for same-day arrival in SDF.
  • After the flight was fully boarded, United determined four seats were needed to accommodate crew to SDF for a flight on Monday.
  • United solicited volunteers for VDB. (BUT stopped at $800 in UA$s, not cash). Chose not to go to the levels such as 1350 that airlines have been known to go even in case of weather impacted disruption)
  • After receiving no volunteers for $800 vouchers, a passenger volunteered for $1,600 and was "laughed at" and refused, United determined four passengers to be removed from the flight.
  • One passenger refused and Chicago Aviation Security Officers were called to forcibly remove the passenger.
  • The passenger hit the armrest in the aisle and received a concussion, a broken nose, a bloodied lip, and the loss of two teeth.
  • After being removed from the plane, the passenger re-boarded saying "I need to go home" repeatedly, before being removed again.
  • United spokesman Jonathan Guerin said the flight was sold out — but not oversold. Instead, United and regional affiliate Republic Airlines – the unit that operated Flight 3411 – decided they had to remove four passengers from the flight to accommodate crewmembers who were needed in Louisville the next day for a “downline connection.”

United Express Flight 3411 Review and Action Report - released 27 April 2017

Videos

Internal Communication by Oscar Munoz
Oscar Munoz sent an internal communication to UA employees (sources: View From The Wing, Chicago Tribune):
Dear Team,

Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I've included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.

As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.

I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.

Oscar

Summary of Flight 3411
  • On Sunday, April 9, after United Express Flight 3411 was fully boarded, United's gate agents were approached by crewmembers that were told they needed to board the flight.
  • We sought volunteers and then followed our involuntary denial of boarding process (including offering up to $1,000 in compensation) and when we approached one of these passengers to explain apologetically that he was being denied boarding, he raised his voice and refused to comply with crew member instructions.
  • He was approached a few more times after that in order to gain his compliance to come off the aircraft, and each time he refused and became more and more disruptive and belligerent.
  • Our agents were left with no choice but to call Chicago Aviation Security Officers to assist in removing the customer from the flight. He repeatedly declined to leave.
  • Chicago Aviation Security Officers were unable to gain his cooperation and physically removed him from the flight as he continued to resist - running back onto the aircraft in defiance of both our crew and security officials.
Email sent to all employees at 2:08PM on Tuesday, April 11.
Dear Team,

The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.

I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.

It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.

I promise you we will do better.

Sincerely,

Oscar
Statement to customers - 27 April 2017
Each flight you take with us represents an important promise we make to you, our customer. It's not simply that we make sure you reach your destination safely and on time, but also that you will be treated with the highest level of service and the deepest sense of dignity and respect.

Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.

For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?

It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.

Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.

That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.

We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.

We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.

While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.

I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. If our chief good as a company is only getting you to and from your destination, that would show a lack of moral imagination on our part. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.

Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."

Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.

We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.

With Great Gratitude,

Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines
Aftermath
Poll: Your Opinion of United Airlines Reference Material

UA's Customer Commitment says:
Occasionally we may not be able to provide you with a seat on a specific flight, even if you hold a ticket, have checked in, are present to board on time, and comply with other requirements. This is called an oversale, and occurs when restrictions apply to operating a particular flight safely (such as aircraft weight limits); when we have to substitute a smaller aircraft in place of a larger aircraft that was originally scheduled; or if more customers have checked in and are prepared to board than we have available seats.

If your flight is in an oversale situation, you will not be denied a seat until we first ask for volunteers willing to give up their confirmed seats. If there are not enough volunteers, we will deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority. If you are involuntarily denied boarding and have complied with our check-in and other applicable rules, we will give you a written statement that describes your rights and explains how we determine boarding priority for an oversold flight. You will generally be entitled to compensation and transportation on an alternate flight.

We make complete rules for the payment of compensation, as well as our policy about boarding priorities, available at airports we serve. We will follow these rules to ensure you are treated fairly. Please be aware that you may be denied boarding without compensation if you do not check in on time or do not meet certain other requirements, or if we offer you alternative transportation that is planned to arrive at your destination or first stopover no later than one hour after the planned arrival time of your original flight.
CoC is here: https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...-carriage.aspx
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Man pulled off of overbooked flight UA3411 (ORD-SDF) 9 Apr 2017 {Settlement reached}

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Old Apr 15, 2017, 5:03 am
  #5731  
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Originally Posted by deskover54
I watched the first one, and wow - the dr says to drag him off the plane, that he'd rather go to jail. This guy was looking for a payout from the beginning.
He was looking for a VDB payout from the beginning; but as UA refused the VDB on terms acceptable to him, he ultimately declined to be a VDB passenger. He didn't do anything unethical at ORD that day, and even the UA CEO begrudgingly stated the illegally manhandled UA passenger did nothing wrong.

Looking for, volunteering for, and ultimately rejecting a VDB payout is what he did. So let's admit the fact: he initially looked for a payout but ultimately rejected it because the UA VDB treatment was awful for him. And the UA IDB treatment was even more awful for him, and so he deserves a big payout from the beginning.
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Old Apr 15, 2017, 5:04 am
  #5732  
 
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Originally Posted by deskover54
I watched the first one, and wow - the dr says to drag him off the plane, that he'd rather go to jail. This guy was looking for a payout from the beginning.
Or you know... he was fed up with UA and wanted simply to go home. If he was indeed connecting from LA, he might have been traveling for quite some time. I would not have take the offer of 800 UA$ for a 22h delay.
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Old Apr 15, 2017, 5:38 am
  #5733  
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Originally Posted by Carl Johnson

She should go. The other answer to my question said she announced that "no one is going anywhere until we get 4 people off this plane" and that she "laughed in the face" of the guy that asked for a $1600 voucher.

There is no excuse for doing anything like that.

Compare:

"I'm sorry, I have no authority to offer more than $800."

And

"Right now, I have no authority to offer more than $800, but let me make some calls."

She made the situation worse, even before she called the plastic-badge police.
The problem is that this sort of behavior is completely endemic to UA. Anyone who has spent the slightest time in the airport has encountered these shrieking lunatic UA GAs and supervisors (and others) who turn everything up to 11 in an instant.

The slightest pushback or question from a customer gets the old "Do you want to fly today?" Or "Do I need to call security?"

They also lie to your face about anything and everything at the drop of a hat. Mechanicals, weather, the plane has left the other airport...

There is not the smallest particle of understanding in the employees of this crap airline, from the top down, that they are in the service business. All they care about is metrics and money and manuals and systems and stock/option prices.

And it has been going on for decades.

Last edited by toomanybooks; Apr 15, 2017 at 6:55 am
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Old Apr 15, 2017, 6:06 am
  #5734  
 
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Agreed, as someone who goes through ORD and Especially EWR on a regular basis, I can confirm some of the GAs are absolutely out of control. A number of them are even fairly notorious here on Flyertalk for this very reason. I'm not the least bit surprised that one of them would resort to calling police before exhausting all of their options.



Originally Posted by toomanybooks
The problem is that this sort of behavior is completely endemic to UA. Anyone who has spent the slightest time in the airport has encountered these shrieking lunatic UA GAs and supervisors (and others) who turn everything up to 11 in an instant.

The slightest pushback or question from a customer gets the old "Do you want to fly today?" Or "Do I need to call security?"

They also lie to your face about anything and everything at the drop of a hat. Mechanicals, weather, the plane has left the other airport...

Thee is not the smallest particle of understanding in the employees of this crap airline, from the top down, that they are in the service business. All they care about is metrics and money and manuals and systems and stock/option prices.

And it has been going on for decades.
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Old Apr 15, 2017, 6:30 am
  #5735  
 
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Originally Posted by toomanybooks
Thee is not the smallest particle of understanding in the employees of this crap airline, from the top down, that they are in the service business. All they care about is metrics and money and manuals and systems and stock/option prices.
Emotions are high. And I recognize that hyperbole is fun. It's shameful to libel tens of thousands of employees when it is patently obvious from reading this forum that there are many UA staff who do exemplary work. Even Oscar Munoz himself was highly regarded by customers until this single, devastating incident. Most agreed that he was winding down the tone-deaf, penny-pinching, metrics-at-all-costs approach of his predecessor.

It's one thing to be convinced that Munoz isn't up to the task. But to smear the entire workforce is totally uncalled for.

Last edited by WineCountryUA; Apr 16, 2017 at 12:07 am Reason: discuss the issue, not the poster
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Old Apr 15, 2017, 6:56 am
  #5736  
 
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Originally Posted by minnyfly
The situation has been posted in detail, but I'll summarize. There was an issue elsewhere with the Trans States operation that required a last-minute crew deadhead to SDF in order to maintain scheduled operations the next day ex-SDF. Not at all unusual or "embarrassing". It's simply good operations to have the crew available to fly the deadhead and keep everyone on time. Now because of one selfish traveler, UA is overreacting and making it more likely that flights will be adversely affected by crew availability.
"keep everyone on time"? Except for the "one selfish traveler"? So is it everyone on time or everyone but the four IDB passengers including that "selfish" one? When did travelers become labeled as entitled or selfish when expecting services paid for to be rendered? Or that selfish was defined as accepting personal hardship due to poor operational planning by an airline that may impact their profits?
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Old Apr 15, 2017, 6:58 am
  #5737  
 
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Originally Posted by RandomBaritone
Emotions are high. And I recognize that hyperbole is fun, but frankly I expect better from someone with 10,000+ posts on FT. It's shameful to libel tens of thousands of employees when it is patently obvious from reading this forum that there are many UA staff who do exemplary work.
Yet, UA and other airlines have a proven track record of making passenger miserably. There's a reason why UA isn't rated as well by customers as other international airlines.

This incident does show again how poorly passengers can be treated at UA. And the "We are the crew. You do what we tell you or else ..." attitude that has gained popularity among US flight crews post 9/11 is certainly not going to help.
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Old Apr 15, 2017, 6:59 am
  #5738  
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Originally Posted by RandomBaritone
Emotions are high. And I recognize that hyperbole is fun, but frankly I expect better from someone with 10,000+ posts on FT. It's shameful to libel tens of thousands of employees when it is patently obvious from reading this forum that there are many UA staff who do exemplary work. Even Oscar Munoz himself was highly regarded by customers until this single, devastating incident. Most agreed that he was winding down the tone-deaf, penny-pinching, metrics-at-all-costs approach of his predecessor.

It's one thing to be convinced that Munoz isn't up to the task. But to smear the entire workforce is totally uncalled for.
I stand by what I said 100%. There are thousands of reports all over the place (not just here) of abusive UA employees. Start reading.

Of course some are ok. Some are good. A very few are exemplary like (former pilot) Captain Denny.

But the percentage of bad apples is extraordinarily high in this company. Something is badly off the rails. No front-line employee should EVER snap at or abuse a customer. Yet this is so common everyone here has seen it multiple times.

I have my theories as to why, but will keep them to myself.

Last edited by toomanybooks; Apr 15, 2017 at 7:09 am
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Old Apr 15, 2017, 7:19 am
  #5739  
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On a dif (non-flying) BB I frequent, they're blaming the doc & saying he should have followed law enforcement orders, that it's things like this that illustrate the break-down in society, that they wouldn't have liked getting off the plane, but once you're told to do something by LE you should do it. Oh, and that the doc could have complained afterward/painted UA in a bad light.

I don't even know where to start to respond to that! Ideas?

Cheers.
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Old Apr 15, 2017, 7:22 am
  #5740  
 
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Originally Posted by deskover54
I watched the first one, and wow - the dr says to drag him off the plane, that he'd rather go to jail. This guy was looking for a payout from the beginning.
That is the most tendentious possible interpretation. It's far more likely that he thought it so unreasonable that anyone would drag him out of his paid-for seat that he discounted the probability that they would go through with it.
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Old Apr 15, 2017, 7:22 am
  #5741  
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Originally Posted by featheroleather
so what did happen to his patients since he ended up being one himself?
They probably got seen by the doctor who is required to supervise Dr. Dao since Dr. Dao was not licensed to practice medicine without supervision.
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Old Apr 15, 2017, 7:42 am
  #5742  
 
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Originally Posted by toomanybooks
The problem is that this sort of behavior is completely endemic to UA. Anyone who has spent the slightest time in the airport has encountered these shrieking lunatic UA GAs and supervisors (and others) who turn everything up to 11 in an instant.

The slightest pushback or question from a customer gets the old "Do you want to fly today?" Or "Do I need to call security?"

They also lie to your face about anything and everything at the drop of a hat. Mechanicals, weather, the plane has left the other airport...

There is not the smallest particle of understanding in the employees of this crap airline, from the top down, that they are in the service business. All they care about is metrics and money and manuals and systems and stock/option prices.

And it has been going on for decades.
The rudest GA I ever dealt with was a Delta one in DTW. But I will concede that UA staff out of EWR tend to be the ones you can most count on being a tad unprofessional, though by no means always 'rude' and I've never seen actual 'abuse'.

I will say that IMO there's often an abrupt rudeness with customer-facing staff in general in East Coast urban environments, whether that's public sector clerks, wait staff or airline staff. In my experience things definitely mellow out as you head West in the States.
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Old Apr 15, 2017, 8:05 am
  #5743  
 
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Originally Posted by Ber2dca
The rudest GA I ever dealt with was a Delta one in DTW. But I will concede that UA staff out of EWR tend to be the ones you can most count on being a tad unprofessional, though by no means always 'rude' and I've never seen actual 'abuse'.

I will say that IMO there's often an abrupt rudeness with customer-facing staff in general in East Coast urban environments, whether that's public sector clerks, wait staff or airline staff. In my experience things definitely mellow out as you head West in the States.
It is fair to note regional differences, and also to recognize that eastern plain-spokenness is often accompanied by transparency that often hides behind passive-aggressive politeness in some other areas. That's the human condition.

But when they claim a delay is caused by weather when we have radar apps and can trace the equipment back to where it started the day on our apps, it starts to become obvious that for them lying is easier that admitting they don't know, or that the company thinks so little of the customers being served by the GAs that they are the last to know. The suspicion that they hide behind weather to avoid admitting a mechanical, and hide behind mechanicals to justify canceling a mostly empty flight, also starts to become clear. United is certainly not the only airline that does that, but they are generally the most brusque about it, even compared with other airlines at the same airports.

But I first noticed a big jump in that rudeness when United employees had to take a retirement haircut during the bankruptcy, more than following the merger. And it has always been worse on the regionals.

Last edited by Rdenney; Apr 15, 2017 at 8:13 am
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Old Apr 15, 2017, 8:08 am
  #5744  
 
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Originally Posted by GrayAnderson
Is it, though? The root of the problem that a lot of us have hit on isn't that there was an IDB, it's that there was an IDB-like situation after the plane had boarded. If Dr. Dao had spazzed out in the terminal and led out by security, we wouldn't all be here closing in on 6000 posts. Changing the rules on crew travel should mean that a GA will know whether there's a crew swap-in before boarding begins.

They're not going after the problem a lot of us would like for them to go after, but this is no small part of why they're in hot water this week.
This is United in a nutshell. Rather than change the policy in a way that is customer friendly (up the limits of VDB) they make it easier to control the situation to their advantage (we don't board before we've accommodated crew). Given the chance to adopt a more customer friendly policy or continue to treat the customers as a nuisance, United chooses the latter. Very typical.

And United wonders why episodes like this resonate with the flying public.
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Old Apr 15, 2017, 8:15 am
  #5745  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
He was looking for a VDB payout from the beginning; but as UA refused the VDB on terms acceptable to him, he ultimately declined to be a VDB passenger. He didn't do anything unethical at ORD that day, and even the UA CEO begrudgingly stated the illegally manhandled UA passenger did nothing wrong.

Looking for, volunteering for, and ultimately rejecting a VDB payout is what he did. So let's admit the fact: he initially looked for a payout but ultimately rejected it because the UA VDB treatment was awful for him. And the UA IDB treatment was even more awful for him, and so he deserves a big payout from the beginning.
I don't see any evidence that would allow one to conclude that Dr. Dao was necessarily "looking for a VDB payout from the beginning." At some point he expressed willingness to consider a VDB but apparently declined when he learned that he would arrive in Louisville 22 hours late, on the 2:55 pm UA/UX flight the next day (Monday). Unless and until he accepted the VDB based on all the details, he was fully entitled to decline it.

Some people, including many on FT, look for VDBs but many others are simply willing to consider them when a GA makes the announcement that the airline is looking for volunteers. Some volunteer because they can use the airline vouchers for later travel while others hope to be rebooked onto better routings (including routings that earn more miles), more preferred aircraft, better seats, or upgrades to premium cabins. I suspect that a few people even consider VDBs out of a sense of helping others or the common good when their travel plans are flexible; such individuals might not care that much about the payout.
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