Last edit by: WineCountryUA
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Let’s have this discussion in a way that, when we look back on it, we can be proud of how we handled ourselves as a community.
The United Moderator team:
J.Edward
l'etoile
Ocn Vw 1K
Pat89339
WineCountryUA
N.B. PLEASE do not alter the contents of this moderator note
CHICAGO, April 27, 2017 /PRNewswire/ -- We are pleased to report that United and Dr. Dao have reached an amicable resolution of the unfortunate incident that occurred aboard flight 3411. We look forward to implementing the improvements we have announced, which will put our customers at the center of everything we do.
What facts do we know?
- UA3411, operated by Republic Airways, ORD-SDF on Sunday, April 9, 2017. UA3411 was the second to last flight to SDF for United. AA3509 and UA4771 were the two remaining departures for the day. Also, AA and DL had connecting options providing for same-day arrival in SDF.
- After the flight was fully boarded, United determined four seats were needed to accommodate crew to SDF for a flight on Monday.
- United solicited volunteers for VDB. (BUT stopped at $800 in UA$s, not cash). Chose not to go to the levels such as 1350 that airlines have been known to go even in case of weather impacted disruption)
- After receiving no volunteers for $800 vouchers, a passenger volunteered for $1,600 and was "laughed at" and refused, United determined four passengers to be removed from the flight.
- One passenger refused and Chicago Aviation Security Officers were called to forcibly remove the passenger.
- The passenger hit the armrest in the aisle and received a concussion, a broken nose, a bloodied lip, and the loss of two teeth.
- After being removed from the plane, the passenger re-boarded saying "I need to go home" repeatedly, before being removed again.
- United spokesman Jonathan Guerin said the flight was sold out — but not oversold. Instead, United and regional affiliate Republic Airlines – the unit that operated Flight 3411 – decided they had to remove four passengers from the flight to accommodate crewmembers who were needed in Louisville the next day for a “downline connection.”
United Express Flight 3411 Review and Action Report - released 27 April 2017
Videos
- Passenger one row behind and on the aisle footage BEFORE man was dragged off https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=655_1492004707
- Videos of man being removed https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4b7_1491983214 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nAZEk6nsNE
- Video of man re-entering plane https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNEQDWpYbZA (link dead)
Internal Communication by Oscar Munoz
Oscar Munoz sent an internal communication to UA employees (sources: View From The Wing, Chicago Tribune):
Dear Team,
Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I've included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.
As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.
I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.
Oscar
Summary of Flight 3411
Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I've included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.
As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.
I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.
Oscar
Summary of Flight 3411
- On Sunday, April 9, after United Express Flight 3411 was fully boarded, United's gate agents were approached by crewmembers that were told they needed to board the flight.
- We sought volunteers and then followed our involuntary denial of boarding process (including offering up to $1,000 in compensation) and when we approached one of these passengers to explain apologetically that he was being denied boarding, he raised his voice and refused to comply with crew member instructions.
- He was approached a few more times after that in order to gain his compliance to come off the aircraft, and each time he refused and became more and more disruptive and belligerent.
- Our agents were left with no choice but to call Chicago Aviation Security Officers to assist in removing the customer from the flight. He repeatedly declined to leave.
- Chicago Aviation Security Officers were unable to gain his cooperation and physically removed him from the flight as he continued to resist - running back onto the aircraft in defiance of both our crew and security officials.
Dear Team,
The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.
I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.
It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.
I promise you we will do better.
Sincerely,
Oscar
The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.
I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.
It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.
I promise you we will do better.
Sincerely,
Oscar
Each flight you take with us represents an important promise we make to you, our customer. It's not simply that we make sure you reach your destination safely and on time, but also that you will be treated with the highest level of service and the deepest sense of dignity and respect.
Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.
For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?
It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.
Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.
That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.
We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.
We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.
While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.
I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. If our chief good as a company is only getting you to and from your destination, that would show a lack of moral imagination on our part. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.
Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."
Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.
We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.
With Great Gratitude,
Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines
Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.
For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?
It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.
Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.
That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.
We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.
We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.
While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.
I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. If our chief good as a company is only getting you to and from your destination, that would show a lack of moral imagination on our part. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.
Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."
Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.
We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.
With Great Gratitude,
Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines
- Chicago Aviation Department said on the Monday afternoon after the incident that the officer who had dragged the passenger off the plane had been placed on leave pending an investigation. Spokesperson Karen Pride said in an email that "The incident on United flight 3411 was not in accordance with our standard operating procedure and the actions of the aviation security officer are obviously not condoned by the Department."
- 4/12/17: Two more Chicago Aviation officers involved are suspended
- Muñoz does ABC interview, announcing United will no longer use law enforcement to remove passengers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90jSUe_vdhM
- United announces policy change that crews traveling on their aircraft must be booked at least 60 minutes prior to departure.
- United releases multiple changes in overbooking / denied boarding policies "We are making changes to ensure that we always put customers first" (http://newsroom.united.com/2017-04-2...mer-Experience) released 27 April 2017
- Statement from United Airlines Regarding Resolution with Dr. David Dao - released 27 April 2017
- Response to Senate Commerce Committee questions - 1 May 2017
- United Airlines PR Boss to Step Down
- James Long, one of several officers involved in removing David Dao from the April 9, 2017, flight to make room for airline employees, filed suit on Tuesday against United, Chicago’s Department of Aviation and its commissioner, Ginger Evans. The lawsuit, filed in the circuit court of Cook County, Illinois, alleges he was not properly trained on how to use force.
Poll: Your Opinion of United Airlines
Poll link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/KP68GYG
Results link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/results...Q6B2B/instant/
Reference MaterialResults link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/results...Q6B2B/instant/
UA's Customer Commitment says:
Occasionally we may not be able to provide you with a seat on a specific flight, even if you hold a ticket, have checked in, are present to board on time, and comply with other requirements. This is called an oversale, and occurs when restrictions apply to operating a particular flight safely (such as aircraft weight limits); when we have to substitute a smaller aircraft in place of a larger aircraft that was originally scheduled; or if more customers have checked in and are prepared to board than we have available seats.
If your flight is in an oversale situation, you will not be denied a seat until we first ask for volunteers willing to give up their confirmed seats. If there are not enough volunteers, we will deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority. If you are involuntarily denied boarding and have complied with our check-in and other applicable rules, we will give you a written statement that describes your rights and explains how we determine boarding priority for an oversold flight. You will generally be entitled to compensation and transportation on an alternate flight.
We make complete rules for the payment of compensation, as well as our policy about boarding priorities, available at airports we serve. We will follow these rules to ensure you are treated fairly. Please be aware that you may be denied boarding without compensation if you do not check in on time or do not meet certain other requirements, or if we offer you alternative transportation that is planned to arrive at your destination or first stopover no later than one hour after the planned arrival time of your original flight.
CoC is here: https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...-carriage.aspxIf your flight is in an oversale situation, you will not be denied a seat until we first ask for volunteers willing to give up their confirmed seats. If there are not enough volunteers, we will deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority. If you are involuntarily denied boarding and have complied with our check-in and other applicable rules, we will give you a written statement that describes your rights and explains how we determine boarding priority for an oversold flight. You will generally be entitled to compensation and transportation on an alternate flight.
We make complete rules for the payment of compensation, as well as our policy about boarding priorities, available at airports we serve. We will follow these rules to ensure you are treated fairly. Please be aware that you may be denied boarding without compensation if you do not check in on time or do not meet certain other requirements, or if we offer you alternative transportation that is planned to arrive at your destination or first stopover no later than one hour after the planned arrival time of your original flight.
Man pulled off of overbooked flight UA3411 (ORD-SDF) 9 Apr 2017 {Settlement reached}
#5191
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: ROC/NYC/MSP/LAX/HKG/SIN
Posts: 3,214
That does not discharge UA from laws, regulations and contractual terms that govern their relations with customers. And I believe that it was amply explained, when and how UA failed to perform the contracts they drafted.
Yes there was and that too has been amply explained over the last 5,000 posts. And it hasn't been proven that the other flights (including connections) were all fully booked.
Extraordinary circumstances warrant extraordinary solutions. Other airlines gladly pay 1,300$ for IDB situations that are out of their control (e.g. distributions due to weather). If having no delay on subsequent flights is so important to UA, why not pay 700$ over the limit. Barely affects the bottom line and it's cheaper than any marketing operation.
If those 8,000$ would've kept 1,004 people down the line happy and not delayed, that works out at <8$ per person. Great investment if you ask me. The decision that was taken delayed the flight in question and subsequent flights. Moreover, a passenger was injured and the brand value goes down the drain. Add to that a potential multi-million settlement and the cost of reimbursing every single passenger of UA3411. But you tell me, that UA took the right decision...
Yes there was and that too has been amply explained over the last 5,000 posts. And it hasn't been proven that the other flights (including connections) were all fully booked.
Extraordinary circumstances warrant extraordinary solutions. Other airlines gladly pay 1,300$ for IDB situations that are out of their control (e.g. distributions due to weather). If having no delay on subsequent flights is so important to UA, why not pay 700$ over the limit. Barely affects the bottom line and it's cheaper than any marketing operation.
If those 8,000$ would've kept 1,004 people down the line happy and not delayed, that works out at <8$ per person. Great investment if you ask me. The decision that was taken delayed the flight in question and subsequent flights. Moreover, a passenger was injured and the brand value goes down the drain. Add to that a potential multi-million settlement and the cost of reimbursing every single passenger of UA3411. But you tell me, that UA took the right decision...
UA already learned the mistake but this is too late. Bolded - Not only UA has to figure out how to get the crew to final destination, AA, DL, whatever they have to do. How hard is it really to get a vehicle to ferry these four crew members to Louisville? 5.5 hours drive, these folks just have to sit tight in the car/van/motocycle/whatever it takes to get to Louisville. In addition, you would think UA has to get the crew members in for this particular flight, 3411? Internal investigations can easily figure out whether they were told to get on the other flights but GA played bully, or crew were lazy. I heard numerous occasions where crew/GA/club agents/friends just secretly bumped other passengers away because 'they wanted to get on this flight'. What exactly does UA mean 'it was overbooked' but two days later 'it's not overbooked?' UA can't even be consistent about this. Once DOT and class action lawsuit kick in, UA figures they cannot lie anymore.
#5192
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,134
So, let me play with a summarized pleading from a class-action suit:
The rest of the passengers saw United have the Chicago Police Department/Chicago Aviation Department beat a passenger senseless while they were in an enclosed space with no viable avenue to escape. They have been put in fear of similar behavior playing out in the future and were shaken by the experience (by some definition you could contend that every passenger on that flight was assaulted in some sense). Add in the "threatening conduct" of the gate agent to begin with and not-implausible allegations that United's digging-up of information against Dr. Dao has put them in fear of similar behavior being directed at them and the suit could even allege that the $500 voucher offer, when taken alongside that, isn't so much a goodwill gesture as it is akin to a mobster saying "So you didn't see nuthin, right?" while tossing some cash at a witness.
Yes, I know the pleading above is likely overblown. However, given the sorts of nigh-on histrionic positions lawyers will stake out in cases, I don't think it's beyond the pale to see that made.
#5193
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: YVR
Programs: Ice Cream Club, AC SE MM, Bonvoy Life Plat
Posts: 2,803
What I find interesting though, is it removes power from airline to breach contract, which also is troublesome to reconcile with right to contract. But that's academic. Basically, the public wants more regulation here, more protection from some parental org, like FAA or DOT or whatever.
#5194
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: AU
Programs: former Olympic Airways Gold (yeah - still proud of that!)
Posts: 14,406
Let's assume there is such a regulation. So what?
Is this UA pilot's wife offering a federal regulation as a defense to the lousy management by UA officials in carrying out the IDB and the inhumane way an elderly man was treated?
Talk about tone deaf - it isn't just Oscar who is afflicted.....
Is this UA pilot's wife offering a federal regulation as a defense to the lousy management by UA officials in carrying out the IDB and the inhumane way an elderly man was treated?
Talk about tone deaf - it isn't just Oscar who is afflicted.....
#5195
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,468
#5196
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 143
As raised (many) pages ago - is anyone able to shed light on the legal basis of the comments by the UA captain's wife in respect of the 'must fly' provisions? Namely:
Is there in fact some law as stated? (full text here: https://thepilotwifelife.wordpress.c...hor/all4my3ks/)
Is there in fact some law as stated? (full text here: https://thepilotwifelife.wordpress.c...hor/all4my3ks/)
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Apr 14, 2017 at 1:50 am Reason: Discuss the issues, not the poster(s)
#5197
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Houston/DC
Programs: UA 1K, 1MM
Posts: 564
A class action lawsuit definitely costs way more than what they could get in the petty voucher. I would suggest every single traveler not to take it, and take the airline to the court.
Concussion, two broken teeth, and broken nose?
If the passengers from the entire cabin file lawsuit, this will probably go more than 10M...
Concussion, two broken teeth, and broken nose?
If the passengers from the entire cabin file lawsuit, this will probably go more than 10M...
If they are going to sue for the "horror" that they witnessed and the trauma, they might want to list Dr Dao also. He was a party to the incident they witnessed. Heck, according to some of the ridiculous estimates on here, Dr. Dao is going to have deep pockets soon. Isn't that who you are supposed to go after
I get that Dr. Dao is going to end up with a payday just for PR reasons (probably out of court), but IMHO any other pax filing suit would be frivolous.
Last edited by FlyngSvyr; Apr 13, 2017 at 7:02 pm
#5198
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 143
You clearly do not understand how airlines operate and how they have to comply with government rules and contractual rules regarding crew duties. There was no other alternative for the Republic operations department to maintain the operations of the flight(s) needed by the deadheading crew. Either they got on this flight, or there would be disruptions the next day.
$2,000 a seat? I've never ever heard of a VDB this high, and that would create an incentive for the airline to cancel a flight instead. We don't want that outcome either.
$2,000 a seat? I've never ever heard of a VDB this high, and that would create an incentive for the airline to cancel a flight instead. We don't want that outcome either.
#5199
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BWI
Programs: AA Gold, HH Diamond, National Emerald Executive, TSA Disparager Gold
Posts: 15,180
#5201
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,203
It is indeed sickening.
Posts here dont hurt. But milder version of this incident happens to minorities way too frequently in ALL aspects of domestic air travel. Lack of support from the majority of the onlookers is indeed apalling.
Did you notice in the clips, guy seating in front of Dr Dao trying so hard to pretend that nothing wrong is happening. Pax like the nice lady complaining with "oh my god. what are you doing to him" are almost non-existent.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Apr 14, 2017 at 1:53 am Reason: Quote updated to reflect Moderator edit
#5202
Join Date: May 2000
Location: IAH
Programs: UA 1K 2.7MM, Marriott Titanium/LT Plat, IHG Spire
Posts: 3,317
And I really have to ask, what would they be suing for? Really, how were they wronged? Other than the 3 others that were IDB'd (and at least 2 of them did not witness the event since they were off the plane already), everyone got home that night.
If they are going to sue for the "horror" that they witnessed and the trauma, they might want to list Dr Dao also. He was a party to the incident they witnessed. Heck, according to some of the ridiculous estimates on here, Dr. Dao is going to have deep pockets soon. Isn't that who you are supposed to go after
I get that Dr. Dao is going to end up with a paday just for PR reasons (probably out of court), but IMHO any other pax filing suit would be frivolous.
If they are going to sue for the "horror" that they witnessed and the trauma, they might want to list Dr Dao also. He was a party to the incident they witnessed. Heck, according to some of the ridiculous estimates on here, Dr. Dao is going to have deep pockets soon. Isn't that who you are supposed to go after
I get that Dr. Dao is going to end up with a paday just for PR reasons (probably out of court), but IMHO any other pax filing suit would be frivolous.
#5203
Join Date: May 2014
Location: DMV
Posts: 2,092
Snark aside, it's more the latter. The thing is that even if they would win at trial, United knows that they'd be better off settling a lawsuit from the pax for a lot more if it gets filed ($500/passenger times 70 is $35k in vouchers, or $8750 in paper liability...that is nothing). United would probably lose more in billable hours just trying to get the case dismissed on a bungled filing than they'd take in liabilities from this offering.
So, let me play with a summarized pleading from a class-action suit:
The rest of the passengers saw United have the Chicago Police Department/Chicago Aviation Department beat a passenger senseless while they were in an enclosed space with no viable avenue to escape. They have been put in fear of similar behavior playing out in the future and were shaken by the experience (by some definition you could contend that every passenger on that flight was assaulted in some sense). Add in the "threatening conduct" of the gate agent to begin with and not-implausible allegations that United's digging-up of information against Dr. Dao has put them in fear of similar behavior being directed at them and the suit could even allege that the $500 voucher offer, when taken alongside that, isn't so much a goodwill gesture as it is akin to a mobster saying "So you didn't see nuthin, right?" while tossing some cash at a witness.
Yes, I know the pleading above is likely overblown. However, given the sorts of nigh-on histrionic positions lawyers will stake out in cases, I don't think it's beyond the pale to see that made.
So, let me play with a summarized pleading from a class-action suit:
The rest of the passengers saw United have the Chicago Police Department/Chicago Aviation Department beat a passenger senseless while they were in an enclosed space with no viable avenue to escape. They have been put in fear of similar behavior playing out in the future and were shaken by the experience (by some definition you could contend that every passenger on that flight was assaulted in some sense). Add in the "threatening conduct" of the gate agent to begin with and not-implausible allegations that United's digging-up of information against Dr. Dao has put them in fear of similar behavior being directed at them and the suit could even allege that the $500 voucher offer, when taken alongside that, isn't so much a goodwill gesture as it is akin to a mobster saying "So you didn't see nuthin, right?" while tossing some cash at a witness.
Yes, I know the pleading above is likely overblown. However, given the sorts of nigh-on histrionic positions lawyers will stake out in cases, I don't think it's beyond the pale to see that made.
#5204
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SEA
Posts: 2,556
I hope they do file against United.
When you call the police to physically remove a passenger who has clearly stated that he will not leave the aircraft, then it is obvious that a scary and violent scene will ensue, possibly with passengers, in addition the one to be removed, getting physically injured. And all of the passengers onboard, including children, would be forced into witnessing and being traumatized by the scene.
But they chose to not empty the plane first. Probably because they wanted to teach a lesson to all of us: Don't question our decisions, actions, or authority. Or else we will "re-accomodate" (a term with new meaning now) you.
When you call the police to physically remove a passenger who has clearly stated that he will not leave the aircraft, then it is obvious that a scary and violent scene will ensue, possibly with passengers, in addition the one to be removed, getting physically injured. And all of the passengers onboard, including children, would be forced into witnessing and being traumatized by the scene.
But they chose to not empty the plane first. Probably because they wanted to teach a lesson to all of us: Don't question our decisions, actions, or authority. Or else we will "re-accomodate" (a term with new meaning now) you.
#5205
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There's absolutely no evidence such a thing exists. Indeed, if it did it would be incorporated in the CoC. This is (yet another) example of airline employees and apologists waving their hands about union contracts and internal accounting and acting as if it has any bearing on their relationship with contracted passengers. "Must fly" means nothing more and nothing less than the airline has designed these pax as such for their own internal reasons. And it is long past time to ensure that airline calculation does not prioritize them over people actually paying to fly.
There's also the fact that a contract between A and B cannot be enforced to the direct detriment of C, who was never a party to the initial contract. There was a relevant lawsuit over the TV show Harsh Realm: It was based on a comic book that Fox had purchased the rights to. Fox tried to say that their WGA contract barred them from crediting the writers of the comic book, but the court found that since the initial writers had never been WGA members and thus weren't party to the WGA's rules, Fox couldn't block crediting them regardless of its agreement with the WGA.
In this case, this would manifest as the passengers being kicked back off the flight so that the airline could meet a contractual obligation for the crew of the other flight. I think the pax would have a case that a "reasonable person" would expect United/Republic to have their act together a little more and that once seated they shouldn't have their CoC abrogated [1] so that United/Republic could meet the terms of a contract which was in conflict.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harsh_..._Realm_lawsuit
[1] As usual, I'm operating on the presumption that the court would say that United crossed the line on its CoC when trying to enforce their previously unstated, tortured definition of "boarding".