Last edit by: WineCountryUA
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Let’s have this discussion in a way that, when we look back on it, we can be proud of how we handled ourselves as a community.
The United Moderator team:
J.Edward
l'etoile
Ocn Vw 1K
Pat89339
WineCountryUA
N.B. PLEASE do not alter the contents of this moderator note
CHICAGO, April 27, 2017 /PRNewswire/ -- We are pleased to report that United and Dr. Dao have reached an amicable resolution of the unfortunate incident that occurred aboard flight 3411. We look forward to implementing the improvements we have announced, which will put our customers at the center of everything we do.
What facts do we know?
- UA3411, operated by Republic Airways, ORD-SDF on Sunday, April 9, 2017. UA3411 was the second to last flight to SDF for United. AA3509 and UA4771 were the two remaining departures for the day. Also, AA and DL had connecting options providing for same-day arrival in SDF.
- After the flight was fully boarded, United determined four seats were needed to accommodate crew to SDF for a flight on Monday.
- United solicited volunteers for VDB. (BUT stopped at $800 in UA$s, not cash). Chose not to go to the levels such as 1350 that airlines have been known to go even in case of weather impacted disruption)
- After receiving no volunteers for $800 vouchers, a passenger volunteered for $1,600 and was "laughed at" and refused, United determined four passengers to be removed from the flight.
- One passenger refused and Chicago Aviation Security Officers were called to forcibly remove the passenger.
- The passenger hit the armrest in the aisle and received a concussion, a broken nose, a bloodied lip, and the loss of two teeth.
- After being removed from the plane, the passenger re-boarded saying "I need to go home" repeatedly, before being removed again.
- United spokesman Jonathan Guerin said the flight was sold out — but not oversold. Instead, United and regional affiliate Republic Airlines – the unit that operated Flight 3411 – decided they had to remove four passengers from the flight to accommodate crewmembers who were needed in Louisville the next day for a “downline connection.”
United Express Flight 3411 Review and Action Report - released 27 April 2017
Videos
- Passenger one row behind and on the aisle footage BEFORE man was dragged off https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=655_1492004707
- Videos of man being removed https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4b7_1491983214 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nAZEk6nsNE
- Video of man re-entering plane https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNEQDWpYbZA (link dead)
Internal Communication by Oscar Munoz
Oscar Munoz sent an internal communication to UA employees (sources: View From The Wing, Chicago Tribune):
Dear Team,
Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I've included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.
As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.
I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.
Oscar
Summary of Flight 3411
Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I've included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.
As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.
I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.
Oscar
Summary of Flight 3411
- On Sunday, April 9, after United Express Flight 3411 was fully boarded, United's gate agents were approached by crewmembers that were told they needed to board the flight.
- We sought volunteers and then followed our involuntary denial of boarding process (including offering up to $1,000 in compensation) and when we approached one of these passengers to explain apologetically that he was being denied boarding, he raised his voice and refused to comply with crew member instructions.
- He was approached a few more times after that in order to gain his compliance to come off the aircraft, and each time he refused and became more and more disruptive and belligerent.
- Our agents were left with no choice but to call Chicago Aviation Security Officers to assist in removing the customer from the flight. He repeatedly declined to leave.
- Chicago Aviation Security Officers were unable to gain his cooperation and physically removed him from the flight as he continued to resist - running back onto the aircraft in defiance of both our crew and security officials.
Dear Team,
The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.
I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.
It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.
I promise you we will do better.
Sincerely,
Oscar
The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.
I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.
It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.
I promise you we will do better.
Sincerely,
Oscar
Each flight you take with us represents an important promise we make to you, our customer. It's not simply that we make sure you reach your destination safely and on time, but also that you will be treated with the highest level of service and the deepest sense of dignity and respect.
Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.
For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?
It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.
Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.
That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.
We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.
We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.
While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.
I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. If our chief good as a company is only getting you to and from your destination, that would show a lack of moral imagination on our part. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.
Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."
Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.
We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.
With Great Gratitude,
Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines
Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.
For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?
It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.
Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.
That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.
We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.
We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.
While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.
I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. If our chief good as a company is only getting you to and from your destination, that would show a lack of moral imagination on our part. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.
Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."
Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.
We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.
With Great Gratitude,
Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines
- Chicago Aviation Department said on the Monday afternoon after the incident that the officer who had dragged the passenger off the plane had been placed on leave pending an investigation. Spokesperson Karen Pride said in an email that "The incident on United flight 3411 was not in accordance with our standard operating procedure and the actions of the aviation security officer are obviously not condoned by the Department."
- 4/12/17: Two more Chicago Aviation officers involved are suspended
- Muñoz does ABC interview, announcing United will no longer use law enforcement to remove passengers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90jSUe_vdhM
- United announces policy change that crews traveling on their aircraft must be booked at least 60 minutes prior to departure.
- United releases multiple changes in overbooking / denied boarding policies "We are making changes to ensure that we always put customers first" (http://newsroom.united.com/2017-04-2...mer-Experience) released 27 April 2017
- Statement from United Airlines Regarding Resolution with Dr. David Dao - released 27 April 2017
- Response to Senate Commerce Committee questions - 1 May 2017
- United Airlines PR Boss to Step Down
- James Long, one of several officers involved in removing David Dao from the April 9, 2017, flight to make room for airline employees, filed suit on Tuesday against United, Chicago’s Department of Aviation and its commissioner, Ginger Evans. The lawsuit, filed in the circuit court of Cook County, Illinois, alleges he was not properly trained on how to use force.
Poll: Your Opinion of United Airlines
Poll link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/KP68GYG
Results link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/results...Q6B2B/instant/
Reference MaterialResults link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/results...Q6B2B/instant/
UA's Customer Commitment says:
Occasionally we may not be able to provide you with a seat on a specific flight, even if you hold a ticket, have checked in, are present to board on time, and comply with other requirements. This is called an oversale, and occurs when restrictions apply to operating a particular flight safely (such as aircraft weight limits); when we have to substitute a smaller aircraft in place of a larger aircraft that was originally scheduled; or if more customers have checked in and are prepared to board than we have available seats.
If your flight is in an oversale situation, you will not be denied a seat until we first ask for volunteers willing to give up their confirmed seats. If there are not enough volunteers, we will deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority. If you are involuntarily denied boarding and have complied with our check-in and other applicable rules, we will give you a written statement that describes your rights and explains how we determine boarding priority for an oversold flight. You will generally be entitled to compensation and transportation on an alternate flight.
We make complete rules for the payment of compensation, as well as our policy about boarding priorities, available at airports we serve. We will follow these rules to ensure you are treated fairly. Please be aware that you may be denied boarding without compensation if you do not check in on time or do not meet certain other requirements, or if we offer you alternative transportation that is planned to arrive at your destination or first stopover no later than one hour after the planned arrival time of your original flight.
CoC is here: https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...-carriage.aspxIf your flight is in an oversale situation, you will not be denied a seat until we first ask for volunteers willing to give up their confirmed seats. If there are not enough volunteers, we will deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority. If you are involuntarily denied boarding and have complied with our check-in and other applicable rules, we will give you a written statement that describes your rights and explains how we determine boarding priority for an oversold flight. You will generally be entitled to compensation and transportation on an alternate flight.
We make complete rules for the payment of compensation, as well as our policy about boarding priorities, available at airports we serve. We will follow these rules to ensure you are treated fairly. Please be aware that you may be denied boarding without compensation if you do not check in on time or do not meet certain other requirements, or if we offer you alternative transportation that is planned to arrive at your destination or first stopover no later than one hour after the planned arrival time of your original flight.
Man pulled off of overbooked flight UA3411 (ORD-SDF) 9 Apr 2017 {Settlement reached}
#3856
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 110
Actually there was a story about a guy that was threatened to be handcuffed and forced to give up his seat to an elite or someone paid more:
http://www.latimes.com/business/laza...412-story.html
http://www.latimes.com/business/laza...412-story.html
Oh I have no doubt this happens as standard procedure. Another thing that would be instantly cured by forcing the compensation price for "re-accommodation" to be market priced. Let the last-minute passenger make the trade with the most flexible passenger. Why does United get to send in some goons and guarantee themselves an arbitrage?
#3857
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 118
Here you go
http://www.facebook.com/mark.schlich...0427579583776/
The passenger never sounded "belligerent and disruptive". He just didn't want to agree to be illegally thrown off his paid for flight after he already boarded.
http://www.facebook.com/mark.schlich...0427579583776/
The passenger never sounded "belligerent and disruptive". He just didn't want to agree to be illegally thrown off his paid for flight after he already boarded.
#3858
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,203
They should offer maximum they can offer before choosing an option that results in paying customer get bloody nose.
If the guy was resisting, why not go on to next guy who may not resist. At least 3 walked off without incident.
BTW, where do you come up with this nonsense of airline staff creating overbook situation. Even United admits that flight was not overbooked.
Find it very disgusting to the extent some people are going to twist facts to justify United actions and somehow blame pax.
#3859
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Somewhere I've Driven To
Programs: HiltonHonors, IHG Hotels, DL Skymiles
Posts: 2,070
How about you show the video of where an Asian airline screwed up and then tried to kick the passenger of the plane for their screw up and then colluded with hired thugs posing as law enforcement who are ostensibly there for said passenger's protection to throw the passenger around while dragging their bloody, limp and unconscious body down the aisle in front of a plane full of families reacting in shock and horror.
Easy, just go to YouTube and "search" for disruptive passengers on Asian flights or at Asian airports - then pan over to the right column and you'll get a number of videos showing airline staff dragging them down aisles and other videos of very rude and bad behavior. In fairness though you will also see the same on flights in/from the United States and on U.S. carriers, DL for one.
#3860
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 80
Actually there was a story about a guy that was threatened to be handcuffed and forced to give up his seat to an elite or someone paid more:
http://www.latimes.com/business/laza...412-story.html
http://www.latimes.com/business/laza...412-story.html
#3861
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 110
This is exactly what I am saying. Those contracts are always written to the companies advantage. Yes it's "unfair" but legally:
-United can overbook as many tickets as it wants
-United can book tickets at any time it wants
-United can charge whatever it wants (free or otherwise)
-every passenger needs a ticket to board the plane
-because the crew were let on the plane, they must have had tickets and therefore must have been "booked"
-plane was full before and overbooked by 4 the moment those tickets were printed
-since overbooked you are SoL according to CoC
Again you just don't hear about it but if someone is willing to pay $2k for a full fare ticket 30 mins before the flight (after some people are in their seats) then they will bump your $29.99 butt off the plane - this is just the first time someone fought it out.
-United can overbook as many tickets as it wants
-United can book tickets at any time it wants
-United can charge whatever it wants (free or otherwise)
-every passenger needs a ticket to board the plane
-because the crew were let on the plane, they must have had tickets and therefore must have been "booked"
-plane was full before and overbooked by 4 the moment those tickets were printed
-since overbooked you are SoL according to CoC
Again you just don't hear about it but if someone is willing to pay $2k for a full fare ticket 30 mins before the flight (after some people are in their seats) then they will bump your $29.99 butt off the plane - this is just the first time someone fought it out.
I hope you're not serious. If UA came out and stated what you said here, they'd look even worse than they already do. If you know your flight is full (not overbooked yet, but just full) then you knowingly and intentionally book 4 more seats to cause an overbooking situation just to create a "legal" bump in your own CoC to prevent issues for yourself.....If I was flying and I knew all of this, they better have guns in my face, because I'm not leaving my seat. PERIOD.
#3862
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 118
---------
Easy, just go to YouTube and "search" for disruptive passengers on Asian flights or at Asian airports - then pan over to the right column and you'll get a number of videos showing airline staff dragging them down aisles and other videos of very rude and bad behavior. In fairness though you will also see the same on flights in/from the United States and on U.S. carriers, DL for one.
Easy, just go to YouTube and "search" for disruptive passengers on Asian flights or at Asian airports - then pan over to the right column and you'll get a number of videos showing airline staff dragging them down aisles and other videos of very rude and bad behavior. In fairness though you will also see the same on flights in/from the United States and on U.S. carriers, DL for one.
#3863
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Hawai'i Nei
Programs: Au: UA, Marriott, Hilton; GE
Posts: 7,141
Once one fails to comply with an verbal order of a LEO, the next step is physical intervention. Injuries happen when resisting detention/arrest, and that is wholly avoidable by compliance with the initial verbal directives.
#3864
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Programs: Frontier Gold, DL estranged 1MMer, Spirit VIP, CO/NW/UA/AA once gold/plat/comped gold now dust.
Posts: 38,151
I'm way late to this and saw the video on "Hardball"...really looked awful. I'd probably have the same reaction as the other pax even if I knew what the rules were. As Matthews pointed out, it's an industry with a history where others step in to fix problems if the airlines don't get out ahead of it and do it themselves. A good case in point had to be hours-long ramp delays of years ago where FAs were telling pax they had to sit that whole time with seat belts fastened. The Obama administration finally cracked down and the regulations have been successful compared to the situation before, at least with domestic flights.
Thanks to whoever created the Wiki, as I was wondering about what they offered. They have already taken far more damage than $800 in funny-money restricted vouchers, or $1,600. Could be more of the fat-and-sassy arrogance we see from being down to just 3 major carriers thanks to mergers. Three is few enough to behave oligopolistically, and we've certainly seen that with the lockstep move to gut mileage earning from flights, among other things.
Thanks to whoever created the Wiki, as I was wondering about what they offered. They have already taken far more damage than $800 in funny-money restricted vouchers, or $1,600. Could be more of the fat-and-sassy arrogance we see from being down to just 3 major carriers thanks to mergers. Three is few enough to behave oligopolistically, and we've certainly seen that with the lockstep move to gut mileage earning from flights, among other things.
#3865
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: perth
Programs: SPG(LTG), QANTAS gold, Korean, Accor Plat
Posts: 1,500
The consequences of him obeying was missing a flight not getting murdered so the comparison isnt really relevant. He certainly has civil remedies if he thought he was wrongly done by which wasnt available to those in concentration camps.
#3866
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: LA
Programs: AA Plat Pro, SPG/Marriott Titanium, Hilton Gold
Posts: 4,192
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/o...411-story.html
An eyewitness account. Some interesting details and insights that weren't originally reported are included.
An eyewitness account. Some interesting details and insights that weren't originally reported are included.
#3867
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Well that is an issue you need to take up with the federal government, not with United Airlines, or any airline for that matter. Federal law gives very little in terms of rights or compensation towards commercial air passengers. That's the way it is and as long as it is that way, airlines will take advantage of it. Can you really blame them? We can only hope this nightmare gets some real changes rolling as it pertains to VDB/IDB compensation.
I agree wholeheartedly that 4xfare in an era where ~$100 one way Y fares aren't uncommon is laughable and hardly a penalty to the airline. I also think the suggestion a few posts back mandating all DB compensation, including VDB, be paid in cash rather than vouchers is wise. Vouchers aren't worth jack to the majority of flyers and worth even less to the airline. Might as well be monopoly money.
I agree wholeheartedly that 4xfare in an era where ~$100 one way Y fares aren't uncommon is laughable and hardly a penalty to the airline. I also think the suggestion a few posts back mandating all DB compensation, including VDB, be paid in cash rather than vouchers is wise. Vouchers aren't worth jack to the majority of flyers and worth even less to the airline. Might as well be monopoly money.
#3868
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 118
It is difficult to understand why otherwise rational people don't get this fact:
Once one fails to comply with an verbal order of a LEO, the next step is physical intervention. Injuries happen when resisting detention/arrest, and that is wholly avoidable by compliance with the initial verbal directives.
Once one fails to comply with an verbal order of a LEO, the next step is physical intervention. Injuries happen when resisting detention/arrest, and that is wholly avoidable by compliance with the initial verbal directives.
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encycloped...ul-arrest.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plummer_v._State
#3869
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 110
Yet no one volunteered and said "take my seat and let the other guy go".
Pretty hypocritical to be that righteous...
Pretty hypocritical to be that righteous...
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/o...411-story.html
An eyewitness account. Some interesting details and insights that weren't originally reported are included.
An eyewitness account. Some interesting details and insights that weren't originally reported are included.
#3870
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: CDG/AMS
Programs: FB Plat for life, FB PC, M&M FT, Hertz President (+ many low tier cards)
Posts: 2,777
My five cents: Whatever argument is used to justify this, or to try to change the context which seems to have been adopted by the masses on social media. Normal practice, legal or not. The whole display is shocking and morally wrong. Period.