IAD-SFO & SFO-IAD now flying Int'l 757 configurations?
May 18, 2016, 9:36 am
#47
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Your first post on the subject indicated that the lack of 752s in the domestic system is attributable to their allocation to Europe. After being shown this was not the case, then p.s. enters the equation. That's what I'm referring to.
And sCO 752s have absolutely been used much more often on pure domestic routes than any other time since the merger. There's only so many to go around...
Delta and United have very different TATL strategies, but the only routes this summer where you'll find a 767 on DL head-to-head against a 757 from United are to MAN, DUB and SNN. Hardly enough to support a sweeping generalization.
And sCO 752s have absolutely been used much more often on pure domestic routes than any other time since the merger. There's only so many to go around...
Delta and United have very different TATL strategies, but the only routes this summer where you'll find a 767 on DL head-to-head against a 757 from United are to MAN, DUB and SNN. Hardly enough to support a sweeping generalization.
May 18, 2016, 9:50 am
#48
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Considering CO used to fly to MAN & DUB with 767 & 777, the market is there for it. Not having enough 757 to go around to backfill PS frames when they break, general domestic flights, or stretched thin on TATL is their own fault for bad fleet planning (which we know is UA's weak spot.)
DUB has mostly been 757 since it was launched and decoupled from SNN. It's now double-daily from EWR in the summer (again, more capacity than a single 777, and more daily seats than a single DL 767 to JFK), plus service to IAD and seasonal ORD have been added.
Prudent fleet planning and resource allocation does not mean throwing a widebody in every single market that can theoretically support it. Are we really now complaining about UA operating 757s on short transatlantic sectors where actual eastbound flight times are often less than EWR-SFO? Would it be wise to give up SFO-CDG so UA can run a 777 on EWR-MAN like the CO days pre-9/11? Or sacrifice IAH-SCL so DUB can get a 767?
May 19, 2016, 2:48 am
#50
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Europe in the UK and Ireland refers to the continent of which Britain and Ireland are not part of.
I have looked at United's schedule and only a few flights are being used to Continental Europe.
I hope you are aware that most flights from Newark to the British Isles are just barely over the 3,000 mark and thus are only around 500 miles further than a transcontinental flight.
United is the ONLY airline to fly to the US from many of our airports and has done so for years, they have built up a very loyal customer base in the UK and Ireland.
Really?
The release was that UA would by flying "up to" 17 SFO/15 LAX flights and on peak summer days, they are. This also includes 1-2 daily 777s on each route and a handful of 787-9s for LAX, which approximate the capacity of two p.s. 757s. The move of p.s. to EWR was not supposed to be cumulative and never presented as such; in fact, given the lower capacity of the 75J vs. 737-800/900, it was actually a net capacity cut, although it added a lot more premium inventory. Keep in mind that UA was down to 7x SFO and 5-6x LAX at the end of the JFK station.
I don't think anyone ever expected UA to operate peak frequency during the shoulder and winter season, but current winter schedules show frequency to SFO regularly 14-15 flights during the week, and 12-13 to LAX. There's just no evidence that United is backing off its initial proclamations about the service, as much as some wish it to be true... by all indications, p.s. at EWR has been a winner.
I don't think that's correct. Using July 15 as an index date, by my count, UA has 18 757 transatlantic 757 flights, of which 15 are to the British Isles. The UK, Ireland and Scotland are appropriate 757 markets. Not a majority, and a markedly different utilization pattern from years past. The domestic services clearly are not one-off, either.
The release was that UA would by flying "up to" 17 SFO/15 LAX flights and on peak summer days, they are. This also includes 1-2 daily 777s on each route and a handful of 787-9s for LAX, which approximate the capacity of two p.s. 757s. The move of p.s. to EWR was not supposed to be cumulative and never presented as such; in fact, given the lower capacity of the 75J vs. 737-800/900, it was actually a net capacity cut, although it added a lot more premium inventory. Keep in mind that UA was down to 7x SFO and 5-6x LAX at the end of the JFK station.
I don't think anyone ever expected UA to operate peak frequency during the shoulder and winter season, but current winter schedules show frequency to SFO regularly 14-15 flights during the week, and 12-13 to LAX. There's just no evidence that United is backing off its initial proclamations about the service, as much as some wish it to be true... by all indications, p.s. at EWR has been a winner.
I don't think that's correct. Using July 15 as an index date, by my count, UA has 18 757 transatlantic 757 flights, of which 15 are to the British Isles. The UK, Ireland and Scotland are appropriate 757 markets. Not a majority, and a markedly different utilization pattern from years past. The domestic services clearly are not one-off, either.
How is it wrong? My point is that UA is still too heavily dependent on 757s across the Atlantic. We were told they would be making more domestic appearances (aside PS) which only seems to be happening during the winter months.
Let's take your list (looking at 7/19):
ORD-SNN
ORD-EDI
IAD-DUB
EWR-EDI (x2)
EWR-GLA
EWR-BHX
EWR-BFS
EWR-NCL
IAD-LIS
=10 Frames
Add What You Forgot:
EWR-DUB (x2!)
EWR-OSL
EWR-ARN
IAD-MAN
IAD-LHR
=6 Frames
PS:
EWR-LAX (x9)
EWR-SFO (x 10)
=Hard to gauge how many frames exactly but for 19x daily at least another 10-12.
Not including spares (don't know how many they keep on the ground at EWR/IAD/ORD) somewhere around 30 of 41 are being used on TATL and PS this summer add a few spares in plus any other routes we forgot, we will not be seeing much domestic TATL activity this summer.
Let's take your list (looking at 7/19):
ORD-SNN
ORD-EDI
IAD-DUB
EWR-EDI (x2)
EWR-GLA
EWR-BHX
EWR-BFS
EWR-NCL
IAD-LIS
=10 Frames
Add What You Forgot:
EWR-DUB (x2!)
EWR-OSL
EWR-ARN
IAD-MAN
IAD-LHR
=6 Frames
PS:
EWR-LAX (x9)
EWR-SFO (x 10)
=Hard to gauge how many frames exactly but for 19x daily at least another 10-12.
Not including spares (don't know how many they keep on the ground at EWR/IAD/ORD) somewhere around 30 of 41 are being used on TATL and PS this summer add a few spares in plus any other routes we forgot, we will not be seeing much domestic TATL activity this summer.
Don't move the goal posts. This:
was your original post, which we demonstrated was not the case. No mention of p.s. service.
Your p.s. + transatlantic point is valid, but I don't see what the issue is. United mostly transitioned the 757s that formerly flew in continental Europe to the domestic network, which includes p.s. We will also continue to see sCO 757s on routes to Hawaii, as well as some hub-hub flying, but with the seasonal spike in transatlantic demand, 757s are deployed to routes where they make sense. Come winter, seasonal routes like ORD-DUB/SNN/EDI, IAD-LIS/MAN (forgot that one, BTW), EWR-ARN/OSL/BFS/NCL will cease, and their airplanes will transition back into the domestic market. What's the problem with that?
was your original post, which we demonstrated was not the case. No mention of p.s. service.
Your p.s. + transatlantic point is valid, but I don't see what the issue is. United mostly transitioned the 757s that formerly flew in continental Europe to the domestic network, which includes p.s. We will also continue to see sCO 757s on routes to Hawaii, as well as some hub-hub flying, but with the seasonal spike in transatlantic demand, 757s are deployed to routes where they make sense. Come winter, seasonal routes like ORD-DUB/SNN/EDI, IAD-LIS/MAN (forgot that one, BTW), EWR-ARN/OSL/BFS/NCL will cease, and their airplanes will transition back into the domestic market. What's the problem with that?
EWR764 - what are you talking about? No goal posts have been tampered with, unlike others who insist on splitting hairs on the geography of Continental Europe. Isn't it pretty obvious between Euro & PS the most of the ex-CO 757s are pretty occupied to have limited domestic presence?
It's not that I have a problem per say with it (although the interiors are worn down so I wouldn't do it), it's just UA said there would be more 752 on domestic routes (which I think we both know many routes operated by sUA 757s could be used on) and they really haven't. It's a little redundant to have 737s flying ala CO on hub-to-hub routes with no IFE. Meanwhile, DL is operating some of those same routes out of Kennedy on larger planes and using their 757s on TATL from spoke destinations to CDG, LHR, & AMS.
It's not that I have a problem per say with it (although the interiors are worn down so I wouldn't do it), it's just UA said there would be more 752 on domestic routes (which I think we both know many routes operated by sUA 757s could be used on) and they really haven't. It's a little redundant to have 737s flying ala CO on hub-to-hub routes with no IFE. Meanwhile, DL is operating some of those same routes out of Kennedy on larger planes and using their 757s on TATL from spoke destinations to CDG, LHR, & AMS.
Last edited by l etoile; May 19, 2016 at 5:50 am
Jul 10, 2016, 8:04 pm
#51
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This thread took an interesting turn, but if I can bump it and bring it a little back to topic...
Looks like through the end of the year there is one SFO-IAD rotation on a 3 class 777.
I was able to grab an award seat in business on this flight.
My question is do they provide anything special on these flights in terms of soft product? Pillow or blanket? (pathetic UA doesn't have either on a regular transcon by the way).
Looks like through the end of the year there is one SFO-IAD rotation on a 3 class 777.
I was able to grab an award seat in business on this flight.
My question is do they provide anything special on these flights in terms of soft product? Pillow or blanket? (pathetic UA doesn't have either on a regular transcon by the way).
Jul 10, 2016, 9:51 pm
#52
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This thread took an interesting turn, but if I can bump it and bring it a little back to topic...
Looks like through the end of the year there is one SFO-IAD rotation on a 3 class 777.
I was able to grab an award seat in business on this flight.
My question is do they provide anything special on these flights in terms of soft product? Pillow or blanket? (pathetic UA doesn't have either on a regular transcon by the way).
Looks like through the end of the year there is one SFO-IAD rotation on a 3 class 777.
I was able to grab an award seat in business on this flight.
My question is do they provide anything special on these flights in terms of soft product? Pillow or blanket? (pathetic UA doesn't have either on a regular transcon by the way).
Jul 10, 2016, 10:26 pm
#53
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This thread took an interesting turn, but if I can bump it and bring it a little back to topic...
Looks like through the end of the year there is one SFO-IAD rotation on a 3 class 777.
I was able to grab an award seat in business on this flight.
My question is do they provide anything special on these flights in terms of soft product? Pillow or blanket? (pathetic UA doesn't have either on a regular transcon by the way).
Looks like through the end of the year there is one SFO-IAD rotation on a 3 class 777.
I was able to grab an award seat in business on this flight.
My question is do they provide anything special on these flights in terms of soft product? Pillow or blanket? (pathetic UA doesn't have either on a regular transcon by the way).
Jul 11, 2016, 8:37 am
#54
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It's supposed to be the standard domestic product. I had three pillows (one big, two small) and a blanket (the real kind) in F though, don't know about J.
Jul 14, 2016, 10:35 am
#57
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The biggest complaints of the TATL 757s were/are that they: 1) were operating primary routes in direct competition with other airlines flying larger equipment; and 2) they were being flown at the limit of their range in adverse winter headwind conditions that resulted in a high incidence of fuel stops on westbound legs.
This summer, just shy of 90% of UAL TATL 757s are flying to the British Isles, plus IAD-LIS, which are the shortest transatlantic hauls United operates. Of those 18 flights:
ORD-SNN
ORD-EDI
IAD-DUB
EWR-EDI (x2)
EWR-GLA
EWR-BHX
EWR-BFS
EWR-NCL
IAD-LIS
have either no competition, or competing flights on 757s. You might even be inclined to consider IAD-LHR as that is the only daytime TATL flight ex-IAD. That's 10/11 of 18 daily flights. The remaining routes with widebody competition (i.e., better options), are as follows
EWR-MAN (JFK-MAN on DL 767)
EWR-SNN (JFK-SNN on DL 767)
EWR-DUB x2 (JFK-DUB on DL 767/EI 330)
ORD-DUB (ORD-DUB on EI 330)
EWR-ARN (EWR-ARN on SK 330)
EWR-OSL (EWR-OSL on SK 330)
That's it.
This summer, just shy of 90% of UAL TATL 757s are flying to the British Isles, plus IAD-LIS, which are the shortest transatlantic hauls United operates. Of those 18 flights:
ORD-SNN
ORD-EDI
IAD-DUB
EWR-EDI (x2)
EWR-GLA
EWR-BHX
EWR-BFS
EWR-NCL
IAD-LIS
have either no competition, or competing flights on 757s. You might even be inclined to consider IAD-LHR as that is the only daytime TATL flight ex-IAD. That's 10/11 of 18 daily flights. The remaining routes with widebody competition (i.e., better options), are as follows
EWR-MAN (JFK-MAN on DL 767)
EWR-SNN (JFK-SNN on DL 767)
EWR-DUB x2 (JFK-DUB on DL 767/EI 330)
ORD-DUB (ORD-DUB on EI 330)
EWR-ARN (EWR-ARN on SK 330)
EWR-OSL (EWR-OSL on SK 330)
That's it.
Jul 14, 2016, 10:36 am
#58
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Well that's life. United obviously sees more of a merit using these planes on international flights.
Belfast is year round.
Britain and Ireland are NOT part of Continental Europe.
I don't see any other US airline so firmly dependent of using 757s across the pond. UA seems to be living in a fantasy world because last time I checked DL will be flying 767s to the British Isles from JFK starting next year (and I think they might have already started EDI with it currently.)
At this point, who knows if these flights are actually profitable or marginally profitable just for them to hang around. Their yields on TATL are down right now. Much rather see 752s on routes like ORD-LAX or MCO instead of flying the junk 739 or 753.
Oct 2, 2016, 10:09 pm
#59
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I am flying tomorrow (10/3) IAD-SFO on a 777-200 with three classes international configuration. I will be in the center section of the old 2-4-2 and very narrow lie flat seat with no storage, but am not complaining.